EPTThe map that I have most success with, using this strategy, is Korhol Compound, which is great for turtling and gradually adding on that fourth with minimal attack points and a lot of easy vision due to the Xel Naga Tower positioning. Thinking backwards, in contrast Antiga basically has a useless Xel Naga Tower, shorter rush distances (unless it's cross-map), and mostly horrible access to fourths--especially if you're starting with your main next to your opponent's natural third. Maybe Antiga is just a map where you can only pull off this build in cross-spawn situations, or not at all. In order to make this strategy work well, I would honestly want to just cannon the low ground between my natural and third, wall off the ramp with the rocks, and spread to the gold. I don't know; I'm trying different things on that map and none of them seem to be either productive or a good plan.
[D] PvZ - Establishing third with Skytoss (viable?) - Page…
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
The map that I have most success with, using this strategy, is Korhol Compound, which is great for turtling and gradually adding on that fourth with minimal attack points and a lot of easy vision due to the Xel Naga Tower positioning. Thinking backwards, in contrast Antiga basically has a useless Xel Naga Tower, shorter rush distances (unless it's cross-map), and mostly horrible access to fourths--especially if you're starting with your main next to your opponent's natural third. Maybe Antiga is just a map where you can only pull off this build in cross-spawn situations, or not at all. In order to make this strategy work well, I would honestly want to just cannon the low ground between my natural and third, wall off the ramp with the rocks, and spread to the gold. I don't know; I'm trying different things on that map and none of them seem to be either productive or a good plan. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
So... viable after all lololololol? M18M is destroying roro with this | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
constant queen production (for defense vs early voids, creep spread to connect bases, transfuses to save a lot of stuff etc) enough spores at your bases a lot of creepspread grab a lot of bases with a lot of static defenses (spines + spores) make all of the tech buildings with (spire and infestation pit priority) Build a lot of hatcheries, everywhere (while banking) so you can instantly remax + in case of base race having a lot of buildings always help etc (zerglings as a mineral dump wouldn't help at all since we've got no dark swarm to take care of cannons with drops etc) Get a lot of corruptors/infestors. Morph some corruptors into broodlords (like 5). Get 230/200 and push. TLDR: Drone, expand, static defenses, queens, expand, static defenses, expand, (no particular order specified).... into corruptors/broodlords/infestors. On the OP: I love this strategy looks really cool and fun. Let's hope pro's will start using it :D | ||
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Xitac
Germany25 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 20 2012 21:12 Xitac wrote: @ Fogetaboudit when lame fucktards like you quit starcraft 2 protoss, and terranmech will be fixed u mad bro? I try to win as much as possible given my skillset, and have fun at the same time. You should give this approach a shot, it has got to be healthier than whatever you have going on over there. | ||
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
making 40 corruptors and whenever you see him moving out with the voids but leaving mother ship behind, just send hose 40 corruptors to kill the mothership ignoring cannons etc. Then chain fungal the voids killing your base and if he doesn't react fast enough, you might kill all his voids through fungal because the mothership is dead before he could recall. Morph a bunch of broodlords or use some nydusses to quickly get infront of his bases with units and kill the cannons. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 20 2012 21:29 HoMM wrote: Can you share some more replays of you losing with this build? ya when i start laddering hard next month I'll get more on this | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
I think the main problem with this is that void rays die to fungals pretty easily, so all in all I don't think it's that great of a composition. I'm a big fan of going standard play into carrier/mothership, maybe try to use the voidrays to protect yourself in the midgame and get carriers sooner? | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 20 2012 23:21 wcr.4fun wrote: Also versus the strategy of sending out all your voids to do damage and recalling them with a mothership, the following might be something that works against it for the zerg: making 40 corruptors and whenever you see him moving out with the voids but leaving mother ship behind, just send hose 40 corruptors to kill the mothership ignoring cannons etc. Then chain fungal the voids killing your base and if he doesn't react fast enough, you might kill all his voids through fungal because the mothership is dead before he could recall. Morph a bunch of broodlords or use some nydusses to quickly get infront of his bases with units and kill the cannons. There are lots of funny micro situations that you don't often see when using this strategy. This is definitely one of the tactics I've run into against good opposition. With most micro situations it's not as simple the theory craft of "fly in" "hope they dont notice" "snipe" "fly away" makes it sound. Against mass corruptor the Mothership doesn't need to be directly above cannons, you have to be careful with positioning and you can be extra defensive. For example. splitting the difference between 3rd 4th and 5th on daybreak allows ample cannon coverage from almost all angles, and gives extra reaction time. Still, that tactic you mention can be a good one, it's something I have run into and has cost me lots of map presence and in some cases, the game, if I don't react in time or am caught out of position. On the flipside, if they really commit and you have a really well timed recall, a bunch of corruptors are going to melt in exchange. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 21 2012 01:09 Arcanefrost wrote: The "disrespectful poster getting owned" part is pretty...disrespectful. That was the idea... Instead of helping me work on my build he just BMed me and did his best to blind counter it. This would be fine except he proceeds to come ITT and blatantly lie about our games (as I pointed out) His intentions the entire time were not to help me both of us practice and get better but instead to gloat and try to make me look bad, I just wanted to make sure it backfired. I'll never throw the first punch but you better believe I'll finish the fight. | ||
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ryx
Philippines38 Posts
On May 20 2012 19:21 Plexa wrote: + Show Spoiler + So... viable after all lololololol? M18M is destroying roro with this Just saw the VOD of this, LOL http://www.twitch.tv/saylesc/b/318782838 Around 7:20? Double gate forge opening into double stargate. Later on went into 4 SG with HT's for feedback. | ||
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TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
He had a really nice composition with a lot of VRs, some Carriers, othership as well as 3-4 HTs to Feedback the Infestors. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 21 2012 01:24 ryx wrote: Just saw the VOD of this, LOL http://www.twitch.tv/saylesc/b/318782838 Around 7:20? Double gate forge opening into double stargate. Later on went into 4 SG with HT's for feedback. oh my god... its perfect!!!! Great find, hopefully the exposure will help figure out the build :D | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
i pretty much just follow the rule "instead of stalkers, get voidrays" and i also get maybe 5 pheonix if i suspect muta (5 pheonix for cost arent too bad against hydras) then 10 upgraded pheonix if theres heavy muta voidrays are so much better against broodlords and if you spread voidrays out they dont get rolled by fungal. in fact the zerg has fungal but the toss also has storm, voidrays stomp corrupters and when you add in fungal for the zerg and storm for the toss the toss still wins. one day we shall see an end to this mass broodlord shennanigans the only counter to a heavy voidray+storm+mothership+some archons/gateway army ive found for zerg is if a zerg has many 200energy infestors and is able to be defensive on some spore crawlers and broodlords outrange templars protecting you from feedbacks when you attack each infestor can launch 8 infested terrans plus some launch fungals and 8 infested terrans for 2food is extremely food-effective and combined with fungal/corrupters/queens/hydras (for anti air) / some ultralisks thats really the only counter zerg has but it makes the game pretty even lategame at that point | ||
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Quasi.In.Rem
53 Posts
Watching the vid (and just giving it thought) Carriers are good complements to Void Rays. Mass Recall seems more of a big play, allowing you to save your fleet or bases, but Carriers (one or two) seem like they would give you incremental advantages. Interceptors are good tanks (25 minerals for 40/40 is far better than Zealots) and Carrier range lets you engage the opponent safer. Secondly, the other main point was seeing Sentries and Guardian Shield. Whether facing Corruptors, Mutas, or Hydras, getting the additional 2 damage reduction is pretty big and will give you the key upgrade edge. Lastly, have you tried incorporating Hallucination into this build? I'm always looking to utilize this ability, and this seems like a very suitable means of doing so. If they don't use Overseers to scout, then you can very effectively bluff them. If they do, the actual Void Rays can take them out. It also gives you cheap scouting, in case tech changes need to happen. | ||
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jumai
Canada115 Posts
've attached some replays, I'm sorry I don't have more, I've been playing Terran lately and don't save my replays. But I have been using this strategy for about a year so I probably have about 1,000 PvZs with this style. http://drop.sc/169483 (peepmode, skip in 10 minutes for my PvZ) crappy replay, but extremely good game. This guy said he was a GM who was "embarrassed" and "glad he was smurfing" No clue if he was being honest but he put up a reasonable enough defense. Basically I would like to find the weakness in this strategy (spare me the obvious macro mechanic slip ups, please.) I've been having trouble finding a hole in my build, so I'd like to start a discussion about it. (I'm a crappy mid masters protoss, playing for fun, who has beaten GM zergs and loses in the other matchups) 5:36 scouts probe in his third >> makes 4 lings. build is now 36/36 before overlord. Drone count 27. 1 larva floating. start overlord... ...inject lands, larva capping the main. overlord progress 0/25. maybe twice that long on the third ...zero overlords made in the meantime. gassing frees 2 early supply with 4/2 larva floating... ...two drones built. larva count is now 3/1. *headdesk* 6:14 scouts nothing in protoss main >> makes evo chamber. 24 drones, 155 minerals, no larva. ...three seconds until 2x gas need filling. third base mineable in 12 seconds. third queen doesn't bother injecting 7:39 Ok, see the stargate + fourth gas >> takes two gas (to 4), then throws down 6 spores. Goes ahead with ling speed, lair, and +1 missile. Cuts roach warren. This gets us to 8 minutes, at which point we have 47 drones 150 minerals, and seventeen idle larva. Our army supply is one and a half. Our next choice is to leave the overlord behind the stargate (so the void ray turns around, which should buy us almost as much time as it supply caps us for) 9:30 Your stargate pressure hits. you run straight into a spore + queen, can't take them, and bail dealing no damage. He seriously droned for nine and a half minutes off a single zergling. ended with a dangerously low drone count, let you play 100% unopposed You could have build 2 gates at any point and won. Instead you're makign a mothership? not convinced by this replay :p | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 21 2012 05:45 jumai wrote: 5:36 scouts probe in his third >> makes 4 lings. build is now 36/36 before overlord. Drone count 27. 1 larva floating. start overlord... ...inject lands, larva capping the main. overlord progress 0/25. maybe twice that long on the third ...zero overlords made in the meantime. gassing frees 2 early supply with 4/2 larva floating... ...two drones built. larva count is now 3/1. *headdesk* 6:14 scouts nothing in protoss main >> makes evo chamber. 24 drones, 155 minerals, no larva. ...three seconds until 2x gas need filling. third base mineable in 12 seconds. third queen doesn't bother injecting 7:39 Ok, see the stargate + fourth gas >> takes two gas (to 4), then throws down 6 spores. Goes ahead with ling speed, lair, and +1 missile. Cuts roach warren. This gets us to 8 minutes, at which point we have 47 drones 150 minerals, and seventeen idle larva. Our army supply is one and a half. Our next choice is to leave the overlord behind the stargate (so the void ray turns around, which should buy us almost as much time as it supply caps us for) 9:30 Your stargate pressure hits. you run straight into a spore + queen, can't take them, and bail dealing no damage. He seriously droned for nine and a half minutes off a single zergling. ended with a dangerously low drone count, let you play 100% unopposed You could have build 2 gates at any point and won. Instead you're makign a mothership? not convinced by this replay :p wat. If he droned behind two lings and I won the game that says more for the midgame strategy, not less. Why are you giving play by play of the opening? "At 5:10 you make a supply depot, instead of going for the SCV Marine all-in, NOT CONVINCED" Would you say this to a Terran player who is showing you a unique build?? Are you just being sarcastic and my detector is off today? Apologize if thats the case, SCOOP sunday can SMD. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
A few additional notes: - this build is an auto-loss versus 2 or 3 bases fast mutas, fast as in "zerg makes no defensive units, straight into mutas". It's very risky for the Zerg, but he may be able to achieve it if he scouts your stargates in time. - now I like to go 4 gates stargate. Previously I was going pure stargates and only 1 gate, but I find that with 3 additional gates, you can warp in some zealots which helps tremendously as meat shields against roach/hydras busts. - some Zergs used the tactic of mass corruptors to catch and snippe the mothership off guard. In one game, I lost my MS 3 times. Despite this, you're guaranteed to kill a ton of corruptors. I'm not at all convinced it's trade efficient for the Zerg. - the best compo I've found so far is voidrays, 5-6 carriers and the rest zealots + archons. Archons are really good to kill stacking corruptors, zealots melt hydras, and overall your ground army helps to tank vs mass infestors, while carriers do their damage.. - strangely, I'd say all my games are between 25 and 35' long. I've done that build a good dozen of times now, and I can't remember any game shorter or longer than that. Most of the time, it feels like the Zerg gives up around the 30' mark, just attempts a last attack and leaves ( despite his superior economy ). | ||
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