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[H] ZvP Pylon Block ramp and 1 cannon

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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YouMake
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States262 Posts
March 29 2012 19:38 GMT
#1
I just played a ZvP on Shakuras Plateau, I went 14 pool 15 hat. Than when he sees that i drop my hat before he can any harass on it. He decides to drop 3 pylons and a cannon. I see this react by canceling my hat, and running it to his base and trying to proxy hat. Somehow he sees this follows me and its totally unsuccessful. I than creep spread and walk a spinecrawler down to kill everything while im going for a nydus roach all in. Which by that time he had 6-7 warpgates and crushes it. Not sure what to do or how to response to something like this. I'm currently in the diamond NA league. Thanks for the help .

REPLAY:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18466
It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, but all out of bubble gum! - Duke Nukem!
kiklion
Profile Joined April 2011
99 Posts
March 29 2012 19:52 GMT
#2
Patrol a drone at the bottom of the ramp to stop pylon blocks. It is really the most consistent way of stopping the pylon blocks. If it does go up your best bet is to drone drill one of the pylons if you can, otherwise you can try for a one base nydus but it isn't likely to be successful.
CivilAnarchy
Profile Joined October 2011
United States59 Posts
March 29 2012 19:58 GMT
#3
If you're above Diamond and allow a pylon block to occur, it's easier to just leave the game after that, because you've basically lost anyway. There's a reason Pro-maps have that supply depot there to prevent those sort of things.
Civilized Anarchism, at your service. @CivilSc2
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
March 29 2012 20:08 GMT
#4
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.
Team Liquid
scur2d2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada104 Posts
March 29 2012 20:18 GMT
#5
On March 30 2012 04:58 CivilAnarchy wrote:
If you're above Diamond and allow a pylon block to occur, it's easier to just leave the game after that, because you've basically lost anyway. There's a reason Pro-maps have that supply depot there to prevent those sort of things.


lol .. no.

Watch a stream once in a while.
Bite off more than you can chew, then chew it.
TibblesEvilCat
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom766 Posts
March 29 2012 20:19 GMT
#6
he also delaying his tech and eco doing 3plyons, i'ld generally make a macro hatch and take 2 gasses, so that i can take the tech lead, so long as you don't die to some 1base allin , while you tech, just bash down the pylons with spine, if he fe'd behind this, take your 3rd same time you take your natural, if your feeling safe i'ld offen overdrone so i can saturate asap.
Live Fast Die Young :D
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
March 29 2012 20:20 GMT
#7
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.


You can check out the MilkyWay Drone Drill thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261179
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Grohg
Profile Joined March 2011
United States243 Posts
March 29 2012 20:26 GMT
#8
On March 30 2012 05:20 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.


You can check out the MilkyWay Drone Drill thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261179


I was under the impression that the drone drill didn't work anymore. Maybe someone was completely wrong...can anyone confirm this? I never tried to do it after I heard that, maybe I should look at it again.
You can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
March 29 2012 20:32 GMT
#9
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.


This doesn't work on all maps, and all spawns on the maps that it does work on. I know for a fact that there is atleast one spot on shakuras that drone drill doesnt work with any of the minerals from your natural. You can click on the far away ones that do work at another natural if you have vision, but this is even harder to time, and usually toss will have cannon finished by then.
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
March 29 2012 20:33 GMT
#10
On March 30 2012 05:26 Grohg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 05:20 Blazinghand wrote:
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.


You can check out the MilkyWay Drone Drill thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261179


I was under the impression that the drone drill didn't work anymore. Maybe someone was completely wrong...can anyone confirm this? I never tried to do it after I heard that, maybe I should look at it again.


Some maps it does, some it doesn't. Some spawns on some maps it does, some spawns on some maps it doesn't.
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
Janders
Profile Joined June 2011
Mexico222 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 20:56:52
March 29 2012 20:56 GMT
#11
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.

idk about that, drone drill dosent work on every maps and something protoss can just make another wall behind the pylon you are attacking
:D
sjukungen1
Profile Joined November 2006
Burkina Faso59 Posts
March 29 2012 21:05 GMT
#12
On March 30 2012 05:32 Galaxy_Zerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 05:08 Snute wrote:
You need to learn the Drone Drill technique.


This doesn't work on all maps, and all spawns on the maps that it does work on. I know for a fact that there is atleast one spot on shakuras that drone drill doesnt work with any of the minerals from your natural. You can click on the far away ones that do work at another natural if you have vision, but this is even harder to time, and usually toss will have cannon finished by then.

It does work on all maps if you do it correctly.
lol
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
March 29 2012 21:12 GMT
#13
What I have done when faced with this is to stay on one base, make an extra queen, use a queen on the high ground to kill one of the pylons, then hit him with about 20 speedlings. Make sure to just ignore the cannon. usually dropping 450 minerals that early in the game means that the protoss is way behind and you can just kill him with a speedling rush.

Alternately, you can take your 3rd base as a natural and use a couple of roaches to break the contain, although I've found that this throws me off my rhythm and I usually respond to cheese with more cheese.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
Siggeh
Profile Joined January 2012
Norway71 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 21:18:11
March 29 2012 21:16 GMT
#14
Drone drilling works out fine! Just that some maps is retarded and you will have to shift click the mineral field on the 3th not the natural to stack up ur drones then move ur camera back and hit with all drones ones.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324283
check out this thread, Snute gave us a nice guide showing how it's done.
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 21:29:08
March 29 2012 21:28 GMT
#15
if you see 9th probe always have a drone on her to prevent harass/hatch block/pylon wallin. This should be a rule...

E: Drone drill is good, but you lose much more than protoss... if you put 1 drone on a probe and have OL watching nat its the best way and minimal eco loss.
Lobber
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada414 Posts
March 30 2012 01:19 GMT
#16
Just FYI drone drilling is auto win for protoss if they just build more pylons/gates behind the targeted pylon while the cannon finishes.
You are not your APM, you are not you ladder ranking.
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
March 30 2012 01:28 GMT
#17
On March 30 2012 10:19 Lobber wrote:
Just FYI drone drilling is auto win for protoss if they just build more pylons/gates behind the targeted pylon while the cannon finishes.

No, the drones are too strong together with reinforcing lings from the main, at the very worst you should lose about 2 or 3 drones. It's all about reaction time and execution from the zerg
Team Liquid
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 01:33:02
March 30 2012 01:31 GMT
#18
On March 30 2012 10:28 Snute wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 10:19 Lobber wrote:
Just FYI drone drilling is auto win for protoss if they just build more pylons/gates behind the targeted pylon while the cannon finishes.

No, the drones are too strong together with reinforcing lings from the main, at the very worst you should lose about 2 or 3 drones. It's all about reaction time and execution from the zerg


I think you guys need to play a game to see what's up. I'm pretty sure Lobber is right here, even if you drone drill through a pylon, you'll be faced with a constructing Gateway next, and if there is more than one Cannon going down, you're in a lot of trouble.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
March 30 2012 01:55 GMT
#19
On March 30 2012 10:19 Lobber wrote:
Just FYI drone drilling is auto win for protoss if they just build more pylons/gates behind the targeted pylon while the cannon finishes.


Lobber is right, I just cannon rushed like 6 Zerg's in a row and they all tried to drone drill the pylon, and I just built more cannons / pylons to block it again then cannon finished and they left the game. -.-;; .... Poor Zerg's T_T
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
March 30 2012 02:13 GMT
#20
I don't have that many replays to show for now but heres one: http://drop.sc/147937

It's not even well executed, if executed perfectly you shouldn't have any issues at all, and trust me, even gateways go down super quickly if drilled properly. Sure, some walls are more difficult to break than others, but as long as you can drill you will always have a free path. By the time the protoss accumulates enough resources to create a threatening wall, you will also have a higher drone count and a spawning pool ready to defend with.

Of course it all depends on the map and the wall type, but I think it's only a matter of practice, targeting and rhythm. All zergs should learn drone drilling with remote camera because it's not only about the pylon block, it's also a needed skill against double bunker contains.
Team Liquid
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
March 30 2012 04:39 GMT
#21
On March 30 2012 11:13 Snute wrote:
I don't have that many replays to show for now but heres one: http://drop.sc/147937

It's not even well executed, if executed perfectly you shouldn't have any issues at all, and trust me, even gateways go down super quickly if drilled properly. Sure, some walls are more difficult to break than others, but as long as you can drill you will always have a free path. By the time the protoss accumulates enough resources to create a threatening wall, you will also have a higher drone count and a spawning pool ready to defend with.

Of course it all depends on the map and the wall type, but I think it's only a matter of practice, targeting and rhythm. All zergs should learn drone drilling with remote camera because it's not only about the pylon block, it's also a needed skill against double bunker contains.

I would just like to argue that the protoss executed equally poorly. You broke out, but he couldve easily cancelled 2 pylons and pylon walled the cannon in (which he nearly did) or just cancelled the 2 pylons and come out ahead as he drops his nexus.

I mean, you are investing nearly a full minute into stopping it with all but one of your drones, while he is still mining away. Under his best case scenario (cancelling 2 pylons) he spends 150 minerals and you spend 500 or more in lost mining time. He comes out way ahead by just forcing you to drone drill.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 05:58:27
March 30 2012 05:53 GMT
#22
You need to patrol a drone at ramp to prevent ramp blocks. Ramp blocks happen at 17 supply, so it means at 16 supply you need to pull a drone. If you make the hatch at 15 or earlier, than you need to pull it when you replace that drone, basically.

There's a reason every tournament has neutral depots nowadays. It's literally an autoloss.

Drone drilling does not work on most maps. On the very, very few maps it does, it only works if you use the mineral patches of some far off obscure base and use the inefficient shift method so you don't have to watch the drones. It also doesn't work on many spawn positions, even on maps that you can drone drill on - like shakuras plateau bottom right, you can't drone drill.

Furthermore, a good toss will see you drone drilling, and just add 2 pylons or a gateway to block you. They lose 150-200 minerals, you lose 100% mining time for much more than 50 seconds, meaning you lose a lot more money while Toss is fully mining that whole time, not to mention the problems with toss having equal bases against a 1 base zerg, and higher worker count.

It's worth drone drilling if someone blocks you, some toss will be genuinely surprised and let you have the win because they are shocked at you doing that and they are too dumb to know what it is or how to counter it, or some will just not watch or are stupid and don't reinforce.

But really, you should just leave the game.

Hence, why you should never let it happen in the first place. Have a drone on patrol at the ramp, always. If you are good, micro 2 drones against the scouting probe, but until you reach that level (which is masters-ish micro imo), just patrol drone at 16 supply at ramp.


It does work on all maps if you do it correctly.


It does not...

Maybe you are referring to the idea that somewhere, on every map, you can find SOME mineral patch to do it on, even if that may not be at the natural, but the patch you are using has to be oriented a certain way. Certain maps don't have any mineral patches in that orientation towards the ramp.

if you see 9th probe always have a drone on her to prevent harass/hatch block/pylon wallin. This should be a rule...


The 'rule' should be that you need a drone following the probe, and a drone blocking the ramp, leaving the mineral line at 16 supply, arriving at ramp by 17. You don't need to pull a drone any earlier than that (supply assumes gasless pool first build, just minus 1 for any gas or hatch made really).
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
gylka
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine50 Posts
March 30 2012 07:31 GMT
#23
On March 30 2012 11:13 Snute wrote:
All zergs should learn drone drilling with remote camera because it's not only about the pylon block, it's also a needed skill against double bunker contains.

Snute, what you mean by drone drilling with remote camera? What you mean by remote camera?
I know only technique when clicking on minerals-ppylon when they're on same screen...
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
March 30 2012 08:07 GMT
#24
^ If you drone drill using shift, you don't have to look at the drone drill. Theoretically, you could time it. But people here are disagreeing with Snute.

1. Toss reinforces, wins - even if you break out, toss comes out ahead due to zero mining on zergs part, and nonstop production to toss.

2. You can't drone drill against Terran. They can repair, and by the time they do a ramp block with 2 bunkers at 17 supply, they will have marines there. Drone drilling does not work when marines are there shooting at your drones, with repairing SCVs. Even without repairing SCVs, terran just cancels the bunkers when they are almost dead, you lost way more than 25+25 minerals in mining time, not to mention dead drones.

I have never seen drone drilling work against a Toss who successfully knows cancel micro and cannon rushing and reinforces the ramp block, or a terran of any level.

And even if drone drilling was an amazing solution, it still doesnt change the fact that you are just better off patrolling a drone or not play on shitty LE maps. Blizz spends all their time trying to make new maps, but the real problem is just the spawns, exploits on certain maps (tanks hitting your main from T third, close spawn on entombed), and lack of depots.

It's a map problem. Until then, accept the ~50 minerals lost. Maybe you can come out okay if you micro the 2 workers to kill the scouting probe/scv.
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