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On March 30 2012 11:13 Snute wrote:I don't have that many replays to show for now but heres one: http://drop.sc/147937It's not even well executed, if executed perfectly you shouldn't have any issues at all, and trust me, even gateways go down super quickly if drilled properly. Sure, some walls are more difficult to break than others, but as long as you can drill you will always have a free path. By the time the protoss accumulates enough resources to create a threatening wall, you will also have a higher drone count and a spawning pool ready to defend with. Of course it all depends on the map and the wall type, but I think it's only a matter of practice, targeting and rhythm. All zergs should learn drone drilling with remote camera because it's not only about the pylon block, it's also a needed skill against double bunker contains.
I would just like to argue that the protoss executed equally poorly. You broke out, but he couldve easily cancelled 2 pylons and pylon walled the cannon in (which he nearly did) or just cancelled the 2 pylons and come out ahead as he drops his nexus.
I mean, you are investing nearly a full minute into stopping it with all but one of your drones, while he is still mining away. Under his best case scenario (cancelling 2 pylons) he spends 150 minerals and you spend 500 or more in lost mining time. He comes out way ahead by just forcing you to drone drill.
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You need to patrol a drone at ramp to prevent ramp blocks. Ramp blocks happen at 17 supply, so it means at 16 supply you need to pull a drone. If you make the hatch at 15 or earlier, than you need to pull it when you replace that drone, basically.
There's a reason every tournament has neutral depots nowadays. It's literally an autoloss.
Drone drilling does not work on most maps. On the very, very few maps it does, it only works if you use the mineral patches of some far off obscure base and use the inefficient shift method so you don't have to watch the drones. It also doesn't work on many spawn positions, even on maps that you can drone drill on - like shakuras plateau bottom right, you can't drone drill.
Furthermore, a good toss will see you drone drilling, and just add 2 pylons or a gateway to block you. They lose 150-200 minerals, you lose 100% mining time for much more than 50 seconds, meaning you lose a lot more money while Toss is fully mining that whole time, not to mention the problems with toss having equal bases against a 1 base zerg, and higher worker count.
It's worth drone drilling if someone blocks you, some toss will be genuinely surprised and let you have the win because they are shocked at you doing that and they are too dumb to know what it is or how to counter it, or some will just not watch or are stupid and don't reinforce.
But really, you should just leave the game.
Hence, why you should never let it happen in the first place. Have a drone on patrol at the ramp, always. If you are good, micro 2 drones against the scouting probe, but until you reach that level (which is masters-ish micro imo), just patrol drone at 16 supply at ramp.
It does work on all maps if you do it correctly.
It does not...
Maybe you are referring to the idea that somewhere, on every map, you can find SOME mineral patch to do it on, even if that may not be at the natural, but the patch you are using has to be oriented a certain way. Certain maps don't have any mineral patches in that orientation towards the ramp.
if you see 9th probe always have a drone on her to prevent harass/hatch block/pylon wallin. This should be a rule...
The 'rule' should be that you need a drone following the probe, and a drone blocking the ramp, leaving the mineral line at 16 supply, arriving at ramp by 17. You don't need to pull a drone any earlier than that (supply assumes gasless pool first build, just minus 1 for any gas or hatch made really).
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On March 30 2012 11:13 Snute wrote:
All zergs should learn drone drilling with remote camera because it's not only about the pylon block, it's also a needed skill against double bunker contains.
Snute, what you mean by drone drilling with remote camera? What you mean by remote camera?
I know only technique when clicking on minerals-ppylon when they're on same screen...
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^ If you drone drill using shift, you don't have to look at the drone drill. Theoretically, you could time it. But people here are disagreeing with Snute.
1. Toss reinforces, wins - even if you break out, toss comes out ahead due to zero mining on zergs part, and nonstop production to toss.
2. You can't drone drill against Terran. They can repair, and by the time they do a ramp block with 2 bunkers at 17 supply, they will have marines there. Drone drilling does not work when marines are there shooting at your drones, with repairing SCVs. Even without repairing SCVs, terran just cancels the bunkers when they are almost dead, you lost way more than 25+25 minerals in mining time, not to mention dead drones.
I have never seen drone drilling work against a Toss who successfully knows cancel micro and cannon rushing and reinforces the ramp block, or a terran of any level.
And even if drone drilling was an amazing solution, it still doesnt change the fact that you are just better off patrolling a drone or not play on shitty LE maps. Blizz spends all their time trying to make new maps, but the real problem is just the spawns, exploits on certain maps (tanks hitting your main from T third, close spawn on entombed), and lack of depots.
It's a map problem. Until then, accept the ~50 minerals lost. Maybe you can come out okay if you micro the 2 workers to kill the scouting probe/scv.
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EPT
