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Hi,
In TvT, I normally go for a 1-rax gasless expand or a reaper expand. I've noticed that if an opponent stays on 1-base, and rushes for seige tech, it can be *very* hard to handle.
If there is a proper response, I don't know it and would appreciate enlightenment :D.
In this game, I scouted it, panicked for a minute, and tried to do 3 things:
- Build a bunker on the lowground
- Get stim to try to catch him unseiged
- Get seige myself to try to hold him off
Ultimately, I completely botched my marine micro, and didn't think to wait for my tank, and that was definitely gg.
But even if I hadn't done that, I had some issues: (1) his marine count was almost tied with mine, (2) he had a barracks to spot for his two tanks, so my one tank wouldn't have done much.
So, any and all feedback on this game would be appreciated. Basically I'm just wondering how could I have held this push off?
Thanks so much!!!
Replay:
http://drop.sc/145803
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Well, the best way to hold it off is actively scouting for it, when you it's coming dont let them siege up on your low ground...
For example on Antiga you want to make sure you snipe the tanks before they can siege.. If they do siege, retreat and stall until you can beat the initial force.. You could also cut reinforcements if they don't cover your nat ramp..
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As StiX said, it helps a lot to have an scv outside your base (or preferably outside of theirs) to see them coming. When they push, you pull most of your scvs and you can easily crush their entire army. If you let them siege up your ramp, it becomes much harder and essentially would require siege mode for you to hold it.
While there exists a more advanced all-in that utilizes cloaked banshees and is much harder to hold off, I find the pure tank/marine rushes very easy to hold.
Here is a recent game I played on a new account against a pretty decent terran player on korea (I played against him in customs afterward).
http://drop.sc/145816
I open CC first, but even with a 1 rax expand you end up with a much better economy and can pull off the same defense. The key is to see their push coming, then to pull scvs before they get a sieged position and you will completely overwhelm them.
In your replay as you said you are roughly even on marines, so the only real advantage he has is 2 siege tanks. By seeing it coming and catching him unsieged with scvs, you can negate that advantage.
Another build to consider when you scout a 1/1/1 (or even just tank/marine) style push is to follow your fast expand up with a 1/1/1 of your own. Your tanks can zone out his units and with scvs to repair your vikings (assuming he made vikings) you have a defender's advantage. With vikings (instead of banshees), you can defend nicely from the cloaked banshees without losing many of your marines, which will help a lot in holding. It's also important to note that due to the poor economy of the opponent, all you need to do is stall. He can't really be too bold with marines as they are in short supply and without a lot of them even scvs can kill the tanks. Many players will try to set up bunkers below your ramp, but if you have siege mode yourself then that doesn't really matter. Eventually this build will outproduce the all-in player and you will take the win.
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1. Scouting - capture tower, and set up a scv outside his base, or in middle of yours and his.
2. Refine your build - you should have much more marine, with stim or shield or stim&shield
3. Supply block so early is big deal when you defending fast siege tank push
Next
a). If you have stim, try to snipe his tank before he reach your base, and then retreat to bunker
b). if he sieged up near your natural, pull scvs and attack with marines (spread marines and scv), scv should go first and take the dmg, when your marines deal with tanks.
Even if all scv from your natural die you should be in good position wtih 2 OC and a similar number of scv, well upgraded marines, and tanks/medi comming soon.
He ends with dead army, no exp, low eco, and risk of being droped/out macroed/sieged in his natural or even main.
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It's been my experience that the best unit to counter a 1 base Tank push is the lowly SCV. Forget bunkers, forget siege, forget stim. By going gasless FE you gain the advantage of having superior SCV production. Use that advantage. I think trying to respond with tech is a mistake because you will always be playing from behind. By the time you get stim, he has stim+combat shields. By the time you get 1 tank with siege, he has 4 tanks with siege. Don't let your opponent dictate your build order decisions.
Whenever I suspect a 1-1-1 tank push, I like to place a "canary Marine" just outside my chokepoint. So when that Marine dies, that's my cue to lift my natural, select all my SCVs at natural, and a-move them towards the enemy army. Along with the rest of my Marines. Don't mineral walk the SCVs towards an enemy tank line because that will just clump them up for big tank shot.
Yes you will lose some SCVs in the fight. But the opponent will lose valuable gas units. And it's much easier to replace SCVs than it is to replace tanks.
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Thank you very much, every body. I will try to put these thoughts into practice next time I encounter this sort of build.
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some of what people have posted here is wrong but anyway,
try and have as good vision of the map as possible and always be looking and scouting ur opponent. Depending on what you want to do there are a few different things u can do. If u are going bio then u need to be out on the map by that u need to able to attack ur opponent from more than one direction. If u prefer say marine tank viking, then just do 1 rax fe into fact, starport,(once u have enough marines with ur rax u can swap it with the starport and then get stim etc.
Any choice is to delay the push by pressuring him as he tries to cross the map, (this depends on what you scout) if u see that he less than u in marines u can push towards his army and might just kill it before he gets the seige off (in this case u target fire the tanks as any enemy marines can be easily dealt with. If he does see where ur army is positioned and seiges up in time then u just back off slightly (u have to be very sure where he is or you could lose everything) this forces him to slowly move his tanks forward and allows you to benifit from your fst expand by adding production and getting tech.
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If you go gasless or reaper expand into 3-4 rax you must pull scvs from your natural and go for it. If you go gasless into 111 I am assuming you have to get siege tech of your own to hold it. I never do this variation but the idea behind it would be to stall until your economy had kicked in enough just to overwhelm his contain.
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As a rule of thumb, if I scout my oponent has taken a gas I will alter my build to rush up to a tank with siege mode and a viking instead of my standard tech up to raven and reactor hellions. With a bunker and some repairing you can hold your natural until you get your tank with siege mode out, and then using the high ground and your one viking you can push him back. I then add on two more factories and go mech.
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EPT
