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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:26 iAmJeffReY wrote: Marine/tank > bio > mech > marine tank Thats map specific. Bio works fantastic on maps like tal'darim vs mech, but mech destroys bio on shakuras. It's really not one always beats the other. In a very basic way, if the expansions are tighter and there are not that many paths on the map, mech will be better, and the opposite for bio. | ||
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Jaegeru
United Kingdom676 Posts
I always 1 barracks FE then get an early engineering bay at 5:30 - 6:00 getting +1 weapons while getting combat shields and starting tank production a little later. Once you scout that hes playing a mech based style I take an early third base and add on a second engineering bay and armory for faster upgrades, add on a starport then start to drop as much as I can. To transition into the late game I normally like to have 3 or 4 ghost academy's and make 10 or so ghosts for defensive and offensive nukes to nuke mineral lines and his army to force him to unseige then stim in with marines and marauders. Grammar edit. | ||
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RaE21
United States260 Posts
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`dunedain
657 Posts
Multi-Nukes and Mass upgraded Bio wins fights. Try to trade efficiently since you can remake MMM much quicker than Mech and Nukes don't cost supply, plus with your added economy from mass expo-ing, you can afford to drop 3-4 Ghost Academies for mass Nukeage! Basically, stay by their tower and wait for them to push out. Never, ever, attack into sieged up tank lines. When you see them moving out, stim forward and pick off what you can. Force a siege and run back as it goes through it's animation. Call down two nukes, side by side if possible, wait for unsiege then stim forward and pick off what you can again. REMEMBER to cancel the nukes if your opponent unsieges and you stim in. Let the nukes land if he chooses not to unsiege, and make him pay for his stupidity. A very good tactic to do while going for Bio Nuke play vs Mech is to pick off turrets in the outskirts of his base and enter through the open high ground if possible, then call your nukes down. This has two effects: - You make your opponent force unsiege or he loses his tanks; and - You tax his multitasking when he sees there's a drop in his base and hears a nuclear launch, he'll realize that it's possible that the nuke is targeted at his mineral line, this forces him to pull scvs from mining and splits his attention. It's small things like this that really fucks up with the mind of a meching player and helps keep them honest. Basically, if you want to play Bio vs Mech, you army needs to move like swarming bees. Always buzzing in and out of fights they know they can win. | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:26 iAmJeffReY wrote: Marine/tank > bio > mech > marine tank Realize it. Why? You have to play safe and slow and stagnant, just like mech. Except as you run around, hellions are faster and way more disposable as the real threat is the tank line. You will be playing an incredibly uphill battle going marine tank vs mech. If you are already upgrading bio, and they go mech, cut the tanks and get a LOT more marauders. Hard to do, but expo expo expo. Make more barracks, be able to macro hard. Just make his push to your base like a ZvT game. Fight on his half of the map and keep falling back every time he sieges. Do what damage you can. Flanks, arcs, concaves are all your friend vs mech using bio. +1 Thats why you will see most of the pros going for the marine tank.. thats the most easy transitionable composition | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:34 TBone- wrote: Thats map specific. Bio works fantastic on maps like tal'darim vs mech, but mech destroys bio on shakuras. It's really not one always beats the other. In a very basic way, if the expansions are tighter and there are not that many paths on the map, mech will be better, and the opposite for bio. Bio has the best chance to beat mech. Mech has the best chance to beat marine tank. Marine tank has the best chance to beat bio. If you won't play mech vs mech, then bio is your best option. Yes, mech > bio on MANY maps. Shakuras, XNC(thank god gone), CKingdom so far for me, shattered, etc. Doesn't mean bio can't beat mech on those maps. It's just bio has the best chance of beating mech, etc etc. | ||
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unix04
United States89 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:34 TBone- wrote: Thats map specific. Bio works fantastic on maps like tal'darim vs mech, but mech destroys bio on shakuras. It's really not one always beats the other. In a very basic way, if the expansions are tighter and there are not that many paths on the map, mech will be better, and the opposite for bio. i think one aspect of sc2 in general that people below masters league do not generally think about is exactly this. the map somewhat determines the flow of the battle and which areas can provide favorable engagements for your playstyle. and while certain maps favor certain styles, if you understood how to take advantage of certain maps, you could generally take any unit composition on any map to favorably engage against another one (even the same composition). albeit, it requires more effort if the map doesn't provide too many favorable engagement points, but i thought it was still worth noting | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
Short answer is if your skills are up to it, bionic / biomech > mech. mech beats tank marine which itself beats biomech, but the mobility, potent drops and ability to out-expand lends biomech a huge edge against pure mech. I guarantee you if you upload your recent replays, you will not be expanding or dropping aggressively enough. | ||
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NMC
Canada28 Posts
1. Ban Shakuras. If you don't want to mech, I'd avoid this map. Splitting the middle is incredly easy and once sensor towers are up drops are simple to deny. 2. Open 3 rax vs cloak. Crank out a fast ebay and turret up. 2 turrets at the main geysers and 1 turret in the middle of the natural mineral line is my preference. Bunker at the front to deter hellion runbys. Combat vs stim is really a preference, but definitely research one quickly. 3. Don't get vikings unless you're in a solid eco lead. Get used to playing with medivacs. A skilled mech player will crank out more vikings than you and getting air control should be too costly. 4. Flank and carpet bomb marines. Learning how to engage mech is the hardest part. Split your units fast and attack multiple directions. Dropping some units on the tanks is an unbelievable difference, but you have to be careful that the vikings aren't in position to snipe them. The mech player should be leap frogging tanks, this is usually the best time to engage when you can hopefully get him at least partially unsieged. 5. Depot walls. Hellions can devastate mineral lines really quickly. Planteary's are not enough, the mech player floats enough minerals that the hellions are expendable. 6. Expand often. Try to stay 1 base ahead in an equal game. Grabbing a 3rd at around 9 minutes (after cloak/drop pressure is off). 7. Upgrade fast. If you're not 3/3 quickly, you will fall behind too far in the mid game. 8. Hold the xen'naga towers. This is espcially important if you're behind. Essentially this ensures that he can't use his vikings to leap frog tanks at you. You'll also want to build some proxy turrets so you don't get into a '1 banshee to rule them all' situation, or waste lots of scans on cloak. Raven is an alright option, PDD can save medivacs and he you engage, but it's pretty expensive. 1-2 Thors on hold position near the tank line isn't a terrible idea either. Ultimately what will make or break your play is essentially multi-task and dropping. You have to learn to put on some pressure while macroing, which might mean a lot of losses with botched drops while you improve but it's key not only to this style but for terran in general. Try to get easy advantages and escape with them, don't want want to trade. Easy targets are addons, scvs, turrets, sensor towers, orbitals (w/ 2-3+ medivacs) I hope some of this helps. edit: watching basically any korean terran player ensures you get to see how to mechanically play marine/tank or bio. They are all really good at it. Just try to somewhat replicate the timings and pace they use, even if it's sloppy it will be enough to overwhelm players at your level. | ||
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Marcus Arcadia
Philippines92 Posts
Played a couple of games and still no vT yet. I'll get back to this topic when I've played 1 or 2. Thanks again! | ||
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Seinken
United States40 Posts
Here's a replay where I identify what strategy the terran is doing, keep map control and make the proper production facilities to kill the terran. My opponent in this replay could have built thors, but probably would have never contested the air unless I made an extremely large mistake. This is huge for a terran who is trying to mech because he cannot elevator or lowground seige your main. http://drop.sc/119111 | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Should you? Probably not if you're behind, since you'll just have less of what they have, but if you're thinking it's about even or you're ahead, sure, go mech. You can get more scans off when meching, and therefore spot more openings for tech switches. eg: You're churning out tank viking for the most part, you drop a scan and realize you have significant viking count lead, and the opp. has no thors... Make a banshee, and see if you can snap some tank necks. Going mech doesn't just mean go mech all game and never switch techs. Mech is widely regarded as the best unit comp. and TvT is so positional and at times slow, that having a mobile, squishy army can suddenly fuck you over completely. Sure, bio can be good, but it's considered good against people who make positional errors in judgement or are unprepared and considered to eventually need the addition of tanks to prevent the massive "siege up in your face and camp your production" move. I'd also rather have a bunch of vikings in the event of a bacerace than a bunch of medivacs, although I don't recommend baceracing vs bio with mech unless you have some sort of advantage like air control after killing their starport. EDIT: I consider sky-terran to be a branch of mech, since there is no mech without a semblance of air control. Also, they are mechanical units & the endgame, stalemate solution to shit tons of mech is sky-terran tech switch. | ||
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