(D) The Hydra Pilgrimage Part TWO! Mech

On February 16 2012 14:03 ProRH wrote:
Nice Nice! Would definitely try hydras out zvt if I deal with Mech next time.

On February 16 2012 14:04 Void_2 wrote:
I like this. Hydras have such sick DPS.

On February 16 2012 14:06 IconicSC wrote:
If they use anything that doesnt involve factory units, it is not mech

Playing anyone with a marauder/tank/hellion army is asking for mutas.

Just curious,
What league are you?

On February 16 2012 14:08 EndOfLine wrote:


Masters.

All pictures posted are from recent NA master ladder games

and the muraders is something mechers have been adding for zerg players that love roaches. Like me.

On February 16 2012 14:15 IconicSC wrote:


How do you play people like those in masters? The basis of mech is to macro and essentially force enough tech switches out of terran (roach force tank muta force thor bl force viking) where units are so expensive and nonversatile that they will lose. That is zerg. By making pure roach you are reducing the creativity that zerg offers and making it as brainded as ZvP was eons ago. If you play pure roach (or hydra i guess) vs tank marauder and lose then it is a well deserved loss.

Again, its not mech if there is marauders or marines. Biomech is not mech.

On February 16 2012 14:29 EndOfLine wrote:

This is not a guide. This is a hydra pilgrimage, showing amusing moments of my quest to find a use for them in zvt.
You should read part one.

I was talking about forcing myself to use hydras in zvt because Day + zenio's use of hydras in the mid game of zvp.

On February 16 2012 15:35 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
The burrow thingy will not work if the T uses a Raven of course But yes, with tanking units, Hydra can deal.....unbelievable DPS

On February 16 2012 14:38 IconicSC wrote:


I did not say anything about a guide. But whatever floats your boat bub. Youre posting in a strategy section about a strategy. I am commenting on it.

On February 16 2012 15:10 FeyFey wrote:
i like hydras vs mech, because then i can go for landed vikings, they do really well against the hydra and provide anti air if the zerg thinks they could switch to air, bad part is, they need different upgrades then your common mech.
But yeah terran often forgets armor upgrades for their mech, making hydras do nice damage to thors and the likes. The issue with hydras is, they get melted before they can do their damage. This isn't really the case vs mech, thanks to the marine and tvt (siege tank nerf), making them more supply efficient then the roach and only a tiny bit slower. (still super fast compared to mech)
And paired with ultras they are able to spread, to avoid splash damage. (roaches block them pretty hard, best seen vs colossus). Guess the biggest problem is that hydras like ultras and broods, tend to be overproduced, which drops their effectiveness imo.

I usually use hydras only as a transition unit, as its super fast available on t2 and normally you can do alot of damage, before the hard conters are out, because of their high speed. (t2 speed ovis for isntant creep highway select the group let the creep flow, and right click minimap, deselect one etc etc, takes 4 seconds and your t2 push ride is done)

Another nice thing for hydras against mech is, they don't overkill as much as they for example do on marines (other low hp units). The sc2 ai is a bit to clever with non instant hit ranged units best seen with stalkers that all blink at the same time into the range of enemy units, with a heavily weakened one in the group. All stalkers will attack the 2 hp ling. (So remember if you snipe an undefended nexus prepare some different damaged lings)

Anyway funny pics (especially those mech composition gave me a nice horror) and good to see some ninja hydras. Nin nin nin. (especially ninja burrowing inside a sensor tower range)
Hope they'll make the hydra more useful in the future (offcreep speed is not the solution hehe. 1 supply would be funny, so you can replace the roaches with hydras, if you have the eco, but thats daydreaming sorry, but would love to see the hydras in all 3 rts games i currently play)

On February 16 2012 15:46 kineSiS- wrote:
Well... the fact is.

Blue flame hellions rape hydras, thors rape hydras, tanks rape hydras.

Hydra are twice the gas of roaches. Roaches are in this case, more cost effective due to regenerative healing while burrowing, allowing for early game pressure with roach infestor into muta and then broodlords, then etc.

But, I love your ability to be creative, albeit not practical.

If ONLY IT WAS BROODWAR T_T R.I.P. THE HYDRA

On February 17 2012 03:52 ODKStevez wrote:
Yay!! Part 2 this is so awesome! Can we get a few replays of the screen shots you have? ^_^

On February 17 2012 04:03 salehonasi wrote:


Actually, Thors do NOT rape Hydras; interestingly enough, as Thors are somewhat inefficient against Hydralisks, as they overkill significantly (second attack does 20 of the 60 potential points of damage). Thors do this to Roaches as well with their 3rd attack, but I'd argue that the added DPS of Hydralisks, along with their superior range, justifies their usage against mass Thor over mass roaches.

Unfortunately, you won't find a player with JUST Thors outside of Bronze-Gold; Hellions do indeed crush Hydralisks like no other, and Hydralisks simply cannot actually enter an engagement against a tank position unless the Terran decides to seige up deep inside your creep (In which case they deserve to lose horribly). I don't even use tanks in my TvZ, but Hellions are so incomprehensibly cost-efficient against Hydras that it doesn't really matter.

As a note about Burrow, I think this is actually a great metagaming idea; Terrans are usually able to get away with not having a Raven because so few Zergs punish it, and then only with baneling mines. Mech players tend to scan an area they want to move into, clear it out, and take control of it, preventing any more burrow antics. pre-emptively placing a small task force of burrowed units somewhere where they won't scan and unburrowing later is good to force the terran to back their lines up, or risk having their forward force crushed if they only send their hellions back.

Unfortunately, I think roaches would probably serve this role better, as you have very little chance of getting out alive with your costly Hydralisks, whereas roaches are cheaper, and can usually force a couple of extra scans by quickly destroying turrets and then burrow + reposition. Hydralisks need burrow movement in HotS, if you ask me. If you really want to do counterattacks with Hydralisks, Nydus is the natural choice, as you can actually run away. Hydras are nice for this because they can abuse their high-DPS to wreck infrastructure at an alarming rate without being forced to fight and suffer from their low durability and high-cost casualties. Situational, but I think every Zerg should get a Nydus Worm; you should never expect to win with it, but if you ever spot that Terran neglected to get vision on a part of their main, it potentially could.

On February 17 2012 04:11 Huggerz wrote:
People like you keep me sane, don't stop being awesome

On February 17 2012 04:36 EdSlyB wrote:
I love the potencial that the hydra has. The problem is that the hydra is not a good unit overall. It has two big flaws: slow speed off creep and are very fragile by themselves. So people go for the all around good unit: the roach. Fast speed with upgrade, lots of health and good damage dealing when in large numbers.

But if you get a composition that makes uses of the qualities of the hydra (like get the ultras tanking and soaking the damage) they will melt everything.

Please continue forcing those hydras out! They are amazing!

On February 17 2012 07:47 SadCheese wrote:
Loving the shots. Mech can be a real pain in the butt especially when you screw up and let
him take his third. I had a stint using hydras in zvt back when I was in platinum and realized
that I was utterly unable to make it work except against mass and poorly upgraded thors. As
someone else said--nobody actually does this who is any good. Although occasionally some
jagoff will try to pull a 2 thor rush or something, in which case hydras can pop the thors pretty
good if you can't knock out all the SCVs with banes since their DPS can overcome the repair.
Also, I have used them effectively against mech in that 1:4 hydra:roach that works so well
against toss. Just a little extra DPS, helps put you over the edge.

Subsequently I have actually found a really good use which I use currently (and I'm not sure
why more people aren't using it.. well okay I know why, it's fragility): end-game, brood lord
pushes. Other people mentioned the biggest downside of the hydra as being it's vulnerability
to AoE attacks; the BL push totally negates tanks and it shouldn't be a concern. Big stim marine
pushes in somebody not protecting their BLs effectively, vikings and (soon-to-be-nerfed) snipes
are pretty much the main counters. Assuming you have some infestors to take care of the
clumped marine fodder trying desperately to stop your push, hydras are actually super effective
in dealing with the vikings. Negating snipes just requires vigilance, good fungals, overseers,
prayer, etc.

I will generally start my push out with whatever I can muster as far as infestors/lings for my
8-10 brood lords (assuming life has been kind) and I reinforce with hydras. The BL push
is so slow that if you are patient, lose some lings here and there, they are usually frantically
pumping out 2-6 vikings at a time in an attempt to pick off your BLs. When they come to hit
you with their 15 vikings once you finally make it to their side of the map you should have a
healthy number of hydras. Even if it's only 5, assuming you can get one fungal off on the
vikings (not usually that hard) you can usually take out their whole clump. If not, you can hold
them at bay and just march your sweet little BLs towards that PF that's been eating your
zerglings (seriously what retarded developer thought that making an invulnerable base for one
of the races was somehow in balance?)

So try that sometime.. 20 hydras, 6 infestors supporting 10 BLs.. can stomp through a whole
ton of terran. At least at low master/high diamond, when it works, when I feel like doing it,
and when I haven't already demoralized him with my fourth infestor breakdown of his spotted
drops.

On February 16 2012 14:06 IconicSC wrote:
If they use anything that doesnt involve factory units, it is not mech

Playing anyone with a marauder/tank/hellion army is asking for mutas.

Just curious,
What league are you?

On February 17 2012 08:52 Big J wrote:
some things on the OP:
-) you are mad
-) hydra/roach is pretty good premax against the usual (thor/hellion heavy) mechstyles
-) hydras in ZvZ is nothing special, plz keep doing it vs Terran or Protoss :-)
-) are you still in masters now?

On February 18 2012 11:48 Mr Showtime wrote:
In ZvT there is no reason to scout as early as 10. It's a minor part of the build, but there is nothing to see that early

On February 18 2012 15:02 EndOfLine wrote:
DontLoseSightOfit: ill dig up a good one for you.




I disagree -

Lets take a solid terran player like Avilo. At the last DC lan I saw him proxy two rax ----> bunker rush at least 65% of all the games that day. (vs zergs)

An early scout gets there when the rax is halfway done, If one does not see any rax at all, you know its a proxy, and have the option to 14-15pool -- sling expand, OR get half your drones ready to defend a bunker blockoff. and thus not die to uber cheese play

On February 16 2012 13:55 EndOfLine wrote:
Answering your questions about build orders/replays, ect ect

I always use the same build order unless its a 2 rax. My general BO is:

On February 18 2012 23:41 IcemanAsi wrote:

Plain curious.
What do you do if it is 2 rax?

On February 18 2012 22:20 ETisME wrote:
lol jesus christ, you are seriously changing the meta game here.
Love that hydra "run-by" Hidden roaches crouching hydras?

On February 18 2012 23:30 yeastiality wrote:
In the game with the 'hydra runby' on antiga, how did you hold the main push?

On February 18 2012 23:41 IcemanAsi wrote:

Plain curious.
What do you do if it is 2 rax?

On February 19 2012 00:10 Leviance wrote:
I love what you do! If some pro started using Hydras ZvT I'd be a happy man :D