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Hello, Idra fanboy.
1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice.
2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid)
3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
Let me guess, you just got your ass handed to you by a zerg, and now you come here to passive aggressivly bitch about the race. because who could beat a sc2 god like you?
Take your childish whine to reddit or some other place please
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
Worst troll attempt ever.  At least put some effort into it.
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Worst troll attempt ever. At least put some effort into it.
You never know, he might just be that fucking stupid
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
Alright guys, we have a low level terran here, bear with him for he doesn't get the concept of Zerg.
I think I can give you some answers:
1: can terran be safe against a 10 min push with 6 orbital and 30 rax the moment the units are coming? No. Why? Where's the tech? Can zerg do it? No. We don't need x amount of orbital and x amount of rax, we just need some hatchies and a spawning pool.
2: There are ways to punish an expo-first build. Protoss can do it as well, terran also. What, you mean you didn't know?
3: Just a couple of zergs? I feel sorry for you then. It only takes one arm, one eye, a parrot biting the ear (ouch) and some mental retardation to beat a perfectly healthy, 2 eyes, 2 hands (well I sure hope so) terran. Be prepared to get beaten by more of us retards them.
The game is a lot more deeper than "of cause you lose if you don't build any units and just drone lol" mind set.
Just to make sure I stay on topic.
Many of these timing pushes are knowing what kind and what type is it.
Because the toss and terran timing pushes are usually following a strict build and you can kind of have a general idea of what's coming either by a ling poke or sac-ing overlord to check for the tech route.
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
Seriously? Are you ACTUALLY being serious? The point of the thread is to help the OP with his problem. Stop whining about how an entire race of players is less intelligent than another. It just makes you sound stupid.
Edit: Didn't mean to add on to the 6 posts trashing this guy, excuse me :x
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
This guy has to be trolling :S that or just educationally challenged...
1st - Terrans do follow that principle lol. Ever heard of reactor hellion double expo to 3 orbitals asap? And then units later. They get as greedy as they can to gain an economic edge which translates to a bigger army/more production later. Protoss FFE to stay even in PvZ on workers allowing them to hit stronger timings. Zerg functions exactly the same, make drones instead of units to maximise your economic position and only make units to avoid dying.
2nd - I assume you don't play Zerg because I can't really respond to this. I will mention something about larva coming from hatches meaning to hold builds like 2 rax it's important to have enough larva to spend on units as well as creep for spines and something about 14/14 speedling expos being very strongly negated by marine/hellion or hellion pokes. By barely scouting you mean scouting like every other race with a worker to check Terran for workers, gas timings and all sorts of other handy stuff like proxies.
3rd - I see, I hope you're not reflecting on how you managed to lose a game. I also assume you're playing quite bad opponents. Or maybe you're just baiting other people to respond. Either way you shouldn't be in this thread so please stop derailing and console yourself on "people feeling entitled to beat skilful terrans" with your buddies.
Back on topic, OP, as everyone else has said you need to look at your basic mechanics. The other thing to think about is that in defending a push timing if you defend it on an equal economy then you are not ahead. You must have a slightly bigger economy, tech or crush his army to end up ahead, which doesn't happen in the replays you submitted. Objectively you need to get to a "safe" drone count as quickly as possible, then scout the timing and make enough units to be safe and get back to droning meaning you can tech/make army whilst they are rebuilding and thus you can deny their continuation be it all-in or take a third.
vs P is where this matters most because if they FFE then you need to hit every inject, not get supply blocked and race to 55 drones asap. Then make your units to defend a 2 base timing like a 6 gate. Otherwise 60 drones if its a later timing from more econ.
vs T You made too many lings too early, like 2 queens and a spine with a few lings to catch the hellions in a net if they try to runby is perfect. If you see more than 6 hellions get a second spine and simcity with an evo chamber to narrow choke. But once again rush to 55 drones then make pure lings whilst teching to lair, getting +1 carapace/melee, bane nest, getting creep on the map etc.
Injects are so so important because if you hit them early in the game then you have so many more drones earlier meaning you can have more stuff in the midgame (if you inject enough then) with a macro hatch to crush any marine/tank timing and have a superior economy if the Terran isn't mid/high masters.
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
1. Totally false information.
2. "Racial" Discrimination LOL
Sir, i seriously recommend you contacting your personal doctor(if you have the luxury to afford one). You comments most definitely irritates the more astute and well-going forum user. I suggest you take a break and learn how to play the game before you comment on something you do not understand.
TL:DR: Learn to play dumbass.
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
It seems like you're not here to help the op and more here to just randomly whine overpowered. Abusing people in the progress with insults and wild accusations that make no sense to anyone with half a brain.
I'm reporting you.  Enjoy your day.
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Just wanted to reply to the guy that got so much attention.
First of all funny that you call me Idra fanboy as Idra is really one of the zerg players that I do not value much at all, he has great mechanics but in my eyes lacks in decision making which I find to be extremely important for zerg players.
To your first part: As it was allready mentioned before terrans actually try to get a double expand aka try to be as greedy as possible themselves but for Zergs that 6 Orbitals/Hatches would actually enable them to build TONS of army at once while the terran would have to build the factories or barracks in addition to the orbitals. This is the mechanic that actually allows zerg to profit from boosting their eco as much as possible in the early game. This by the way enables us zerg to get an insane economy much faster than any other race when neglecting to collect gas in the early stages but comes with a hughe price of being very vulnerable if one would choose to play like that for too long.
To your second part: IF you understood the first part you should now understand that zerg mechanics are exactly which should enable zerg to expand first while still being relatively safe(with the exception to ZvP and the cannon issue;).
Also I would sure love to see you revolutionize the zerg race with your innovative style of not expanding early maybe there is alot of merit to this which the community was just not able to reckognize since only the mentally disordered people seem to play zerg(in your opinion and who knows maybe you are right,right?)
To your third part: Hey really great you got such sucess playing zerg maybe you should consider a race switch to zerg. You could get into GM if its so easy and try to dominate the SC2 pro scene, maybe even with your one base zerg style?
For other zerg it often feels like one has to be quiet skilled to beat a terran because terrans are pretty hard to kill or so I think if they have tanks and PFs or in the early stages often even a wall in is enough to keep a zerg from just killing the terran(not saying it is imbalanced just that it sometimes really feels pretty hard).
So yea WickedSkies I can only say that I think all races have their challenging parts about them but if you think zerg is the easiest race for you then why not pick it? I actually only play zerg nowadays because I cant cope the macro with Terran or Toss (not that my Zerg macro is really good;) and because I do like the whole zerg feeling.
So join the Zerg but imrpove on your manner before doing so...you could tarnish the zerg communities uhm reputation.
To the OP I can really just advise you to take a look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219257
and also the other threads in the Zerg Recommended Strategy Threads which can be found here in the Zerg section: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255
Also as others said injects and supply blocks are something to really watch out for you will be surpised how much more stuff you will have once you get just these 2 things fixed.
And as someone mentioned before get used to scouting with a drone and having lings infront of your opponents base to see when he moves out. Also sending in an overlord at like 4 minutes if your opponent stays one base or like 6-7 minutes if he expanded can often tell you alot about what is to come.
Greetins Igaryu85
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Like you've already said, these timings come at times that you already predict. So... why not stop droning about a minute and a half before the timings, save up larvae and minerals while throwing down some tech building (hydra den, roach warren, what have you) Scout.... if you see him with 7 gate or whatever, just focus on making units... if it's terran just make lings in general right before 9:00 and make sure your baneling nest goes down before 8 minutes if they expanded.
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One thing you can incorporate into your play is pretty simple. Make lings early instead of droning so heavily. You don't need to make enough to stop his push, just don't keep them at your base. Keep them outside his base and do ling run bys when he pushes out. This will be enough to make him turn around. If he doesn't, kill a lot of scvs or what have you, then run them back to join the rest of your army. If he doesn't turn around you'll probably have to pull drones, but make sure you do a lot of economic damage to his mineral line.
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OP: I would suggest watching DRG and Nestea's recent games against the likes of Parting, Puzzle and Genius. In most of those games, the latter went for strong timings, which were mostly held beautifully by the former. From a toss perspective, it was v educational, I imagine it would be just as valuable for a zerg.
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On February 16 2012 02:56 WickedSkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:42 Igaryu85 wrote:
Anyone able to do simple math would realize that the more drones one gets as early as possible the bigger the bonus to that.
For the swarm! Hello, Idra fanboy. 1-st. Anyone able to do simple math would realize if things were that simple terran would just make 6 orbitals without making units and start making units out of its 30 rax at the moment he sees you coming. I don't see that happening in practice. 2-nd. Zerg players usually play outright stupidly. The whole notion that a race should be able to go expo first and barely scouting comes to show you that zerg is the race played by people who have trouble, in your words, to 'do the simple math'. (Cause you probably did not get what I mean by now, I will clarify: I imply that most zerg players are stupid) 3-rd. Playing a couple of games as zerg on ladder, I got utterly disgusted how easy the race is. What I don't get is why zergs think they are entitled to feel skilful beating a terran, for example, cause in order to lose with zerg vs terran, the zerg has to have one arm, one eye (basically, a pirate), a parrot biting his ear and some mental retardation (something I am sure most zerg players do have).
what the fuck are u posting in a stratedy forum for if u dont even have a clue what your saying... zerg is not the "easy-mode" race. zergs are not stupid sorry bro but there are just as many retards playing all 3 races. to your 6 orbitals just you could do that just like zerg could take 6 bases before making units but ur gona die. please never post unhelpful crap like this in help forums its not the place for crying about races
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Where are the mods? Someone please ban WickedSkies for being brain damaged...
Oh, and Terran CAN and WILL do a triple orbital expand vs Z, which is like Z getting 4 bases at the start of the game. So your point is null.
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In an atempt to be sane here I would say scouting with a drone early helps a lot. I usually send a dron after overlord at 9. One of the best ways to lpay against an oponent is to know your oponents build orders. Most build orders you can find on any forum so you can see what they are doing at what times. Like for us 15 hatch 15 pool Overlord keep droning extracter double queen build. This is a fairly typical build for zerg to start off with. The biggest part of a teran going helions is to gain map control so they can expand so if you get like 2 spines and 3 queens you can still keep droning but pop an overlord in to check on additional tech. get the 4 gasses fairly early once youve reached saturation and get to lair for mutas. This gets you back your map control. Fairly typical ZvT. This of course is a general scheme there are tons of variations depending on what your oponent is doing. Against Protoss they almost always forge expand and i mean 95% of the time because by now 4 gates just dont do anything <generalization> . This gives you a big window to go drone nuts <dont get supply blocked> get a fast third and an overlord to scout his base for whatever tech hes going. If your having problems with Toss going starget get a spire and get corrupters. Counters Voids and phonexes and go roach with burrow. so corrupter counters air roach is for ground and at this time if they went stargate youll be able to put pressure back on your oponent. Why??? He prolly hasnt gotten his robo yet. dont get to over eager engage fall back heal roaches rinse repeat pickl off what you can. if he gets an observer out Make an overseer. the overseers are close to the same speed as your corrupters they run great in a pack and can snipe out the observer. keep pressuring. You can get infesters in this mix and then go into brood lords. Keep him from gettinga 3rd basically and youll be doing good since you already have yours. Is a good alternative to muta play since its so widely used right now. Most Toss are just worried about how to counter the big muta pack so this might throw them off. GL try diferent thigns and see whats most comfortable to you. <Scouting is Key>
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I am not sure if you want me to review those games or if you are just posting them because its a necessary rule, but you should sacrifice two overlords at 7:30 and find out what they are doing and react appropriately.
Scouting is one thing, knowing how to react is a different subject. I recommend this Zerg's blog for how to respond to certain specific strategies.
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EPT
