|
I'm really not sure how to counter mass ghost. This is a ZvT on Shakuras, where we ended up splitting the map. I went for ling/bling/ultra and he went marine/tank. He started doing drops and I (belatedly) switched to muta, which made him go Thor.
I'm only in Plat so, there's obvious macro mistakes and I got dropped a few times and didn't put up the right defenses (I should have either gone Muta earlier to just counter the drops or put some spines/spores at each expo.
I also noticed that I was running low on minerals all the time - probably from the lings that I kept having to produce.
My question really relates to the last few minutes when I attack and he reveals he has a siege-line + mass ghost to take out my ultras. I really didn't know what to build at that point.  I realize that one of my errors was probably wasting my blings on tanks instead of trying to target-fire the ghosts (maybe that's the solution?)
Any suggestions welcome.
http://drop.sc/60357
|
Well yea if your macro had been better etc you could have made something happen ofc, drops of your own etc. But honestly i don't think any zerg knows what to do when terran split the map with ghost mech, seems to be the ultimate composition unless you can just overrun it with sheer mass. Best solution is to keep their base count down and not let them get entrenched.
|
if he goes Ghosts, it can be really hard. One thing to keep in mind is that brood lords and ultralisks will definitely have less effect due to snipe. One way I found to kinda deal with them is to do some very hard constant agression on them. So the ghost can't regenerate energy fast enough.
Also, most terrans keep their ghost apart from their army, one other way to deal with them is to just get a huge amount of banelings in your army and try to roll them in the ghost ball.
Another way that deals with siege lines is also just go attack another place. Ghost Tank, is way more immobile than marine tank. Ghost don't have stim, so they aren't that fast. If his army splits up, it will be easier to take out.
|
I have had alot of great success with roach/banes!
cheap and big green boom!
|
On November 18 2011 01:44 EndOfLine wrote:
I have had alot of great success with roach/banes!
cheap and big green boom!
This composition works great vs mass ghost, but it gets destroyed by his mech backbone.
|
If they have mass ghosts.. they wont have mass infantry.. so they may relate all to mech.... and your best answer should be muta/ling/roach... its the best
|
On November 18 2011 01:53 sakhi20 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 01:44 EndOfLine wrote:
I have had alot of great success with roach/banes!
cheap and big green boom!
This composition works great vs mass ghost, but it gets destroyed by his mech backbone.
Once the ghosts are green goo on the map, treat the army like normal mech. (roach drops, counter, ect) Mech is Slow, and hard to remax, especially with ghosts because terrans need all the gas they can get their greedy hands on.
|
Broodlords have .5 more range than ghosts, if they move up when you start shooting, just move back for a split second after launching a broodling and then a move towards them again. You can make them waste time running by strafing with broodlords and thus making the broodlords much more cost efficient vs ghosts. If any terran goes a lot of mech after you go mutas, start instantly working towards making like 8 broodlords. Even if he goes ghosts you should be fine, since the point of broodlords is to zone off and stop his slow pushes and management of territory. So you can then take more bases.
|
In one of the mouz trap episodes, Thorzain said that banelings are an effective counter to ghosts, also ultras are going to be good at your level of play since it requires lots of micro to pull off ghost snipes on your ultras.
|
Sorry, but roach/gling/sling will never counter mech/ghosts. There is simply no way to beat a maxed mech army with 15+ ghosts. You can try to be cute and np a ghost and emp everything, but it won't work everytime ^^
|
On November 18 2011 02:20 Aberu wrote:
Broodlords have .5 more range than ghosts
Broodlords have 0.5 less range than Ghost snipe, 9.5 vs 10.
|
Spell casters give an edge to every army so if you see alot of ghosts dont confuse them with regular units get infestors and burrow move and out micro them.
Also i dont think ultras are a good response vs tanks and thor as broodlords would have been.
Youll also need overseers to see the cloaked ghosts and i dont mean just 1-2 they get sniped pretty easy but thats less snipes on your broodlords or infestors.
|
I'd go heavily upgraded ling/bling with infestors. You can break siege lines with infested terrans.
|
On November 18 2011 03:46 Nourek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 02:20 Aberu wrote:
Broodlords have .5 more range than ghosts Broodlords have 0.5 less range than Ghost snipe, 9.5 vs 10.
Oh your right! I stand corrected. Either way the ghosts have to run around the broodling to continue shooting. I commonly see top players use broodlords effectively against ghosts, I feel like they are the best way, but you also have to be on more bases, and effectively use ling runbys. It's not easy, but neither is meching, so if you learn how to mass units better and macro better, it actually will help you out more than just strategical stuff that we are saying.
|
I don't go muta against t. I like to go open ling/bling, get fast upgrades, and then go into ultras, while keeping a tech switch to brood lords in mind. keep a small group of ling bling at every base once you get 3. If you see blue hellion, or a thor, he's going mech, so you want to start going pure roach with upgrades.
|
The key is killing the ghosts. Once they're gone the tanks and marines are easy to handle.
The muta bling transition from hive units is a pretty good one but honestly there isn't a the perfect comp against ghost tank marine end game. muta bling works well in theory but a lot of the time they will have a bunch of PFs setup a siege line established so it's not very cost effective for the zerg.
I still like the BL infestor ling bane combo. If his ghosts and clumped and you can land 1 fungal by spreading out your infestors then he's toast. When a ghost is fungaled he can't cast any spells. The key is being patient with your infestors and ling/bane. Let the BLs attack first and even take some snipe shots before you engage with infestors. You'll lose some BLs right off the bat but the broodlings give you room to get up there to fungal.
If played perfectly, the terran will still win (ghost spread, landing EMPs and then sniping), but most of the time they will not.
|
I just watched the replay and I think the biggest flaw in your game is the early game macro and scouting. You floated a lot of larvae when his hellions arrived. And as a response to his map control tool, you invested 40 zerglings and 3 spines. That was 20 drones you could have had. 40 lings to kill some mineral-sink-and-map-control hellions is not worth it. you can definitely clean the first drop up with 4 queens with amazingly a lot of energy for transfuse, and about 10-20 lings. after that clean up the terran was ahead the whole game.
I would agree the terran has really good drop harass, but I just feel like if you keep an edge in econ and you will be alright. once you cleaned up the first attack, you need to expand ASAP and get a macro hatch and restart creep spreading. and build a mid-game army before your 3rd is up, i would suggest investing your resources into a mid-game ling/bling army and 4-6 infestors just for his 1st major marine tank push. You want to keep your 3rd safe. Once you killed that first push, terran is not going to be happy and you can just drone up a bit and get your 3rd running and start taking your 4th.
You get your hive on 2 base, which is definitely not affordable. You can get a hive faster and get upgrades for you ling/bling, but I think you need more income to get ultras. I only get ultras when I am about to push with 4-6 ultras and 70 blings and about 40-60 lings. because that way you can completely clean up the tanks and just remax with 3/3 cracklings.
Don't even worry about the unit comp, it is fine, it is just the way you get to your goal is kinda wrong in a macro-oriented sense. And thats why you feel short in resources because you did not get up to the saturation you wanted. You want to replenish drones as soon as the drop has dealt damage at the mineral line and spine up accordingly, muta is really not needed. If he relentlessly drop you, make sure you SPREAD your overlords to the edge of the map, take the watchtowers, and locate about 20 ling + 6 bling at each vulnerable bases (main and 4th, natural and 3rd on shakuras is easier for your main army to clean up). Infestors can be really cost efficient against drops if you ultilize them correctly.
And the game was over once your 1st major attack failed with ling/bling/ultra because you did not even kill half of his tanks and he does not even have ghosts yet! Your did not lose to ghost but to your bad decision of engagement, if you macro up a little bit more and mass up banes and just try to get all the tanks and marines and ghost in one good hit, you will be alright.
|
In my opinion, the answer is overlord drops.
but in this game you were very far behind for almost the entire game, because he was able to constantly kill your 3rd base and trade armies without taking any economic damage. That's the most important part.
here's a game of me playing against a turtly terran.
http://drop.sc/58135
he doesn't go mass ghost, but he does try to split the map with planetaries.
He actually disconnects at the end, so we were robbed of a true ending, but I'm pretty sure I could shut down the last of his mining with my army and I could finish the game from there.
also keep in mind that if I saved my 3rd hatch (which I could have done if I kept my lings at home instead of rallying them to the battle) I would have had an insurmountable advantage quite early on. because I lost that hatch the game was still pretty even.
The thing is that terran can't get 30 ghosts if you keep the pressure on him. This is how you keep the pressure on him. It doesn't matter what units are in his army if his army is always in the wrong spot, or divided.
Here's another one where the opponent tries to make ghosts, but can't get to the critical number.. because I keep attacking him, but not where he wants me to attack him.
http://drop.sc/59261
It is very important to keep your lings split up on multiple groups so you can handle drops without much difficulty.
The key is that the terran front lines are always so well defended that any direct attack is horribly cost inefficient. So you have to use drops to force him to move units around, making his front more vulnerable.
I made a whole video compiling a lot of clips of me playing this drop heavy ling infestor ultralisk style in ZvT, it works really damn well in masters league.
zergling drops video
|
On November 18 2011 01:32 Iksf wrote:
Well yea if your macro had been better etc you could have made something happen ofc, drops of your own etc. But honestly i don't think any zerg knows what to do when terran split the map with ghost mech, seems to be the ultimate composition unless you can just overrun it with sheer mass. Best solution is to keep their base count down and not let them get entrenched.
Nydus. Drops.
As for the zerg guy above, work on your micro and macro and decision making. Attacking head on into a siege line is never a good idea. You could have killed the bottom two expansions easily and force the terran to relocate or lose them. And I just don't understand your thinking, why do you think you lost to mass ghost? At the final battle the terran had 20 siege tanks and 5 ghosts (I am twisting the facts, but...) and you think you lost to the ghost? Also, you seem to float too much resources, make upgrades with them, or more units, or spine cralwers, or drones, just don't float resources.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
