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On December 08 2011 13:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:00 inamorato wrote:
The beginning of the thread it states that you are a top player as well as streamer. Before you made this claim you said you were a D on ICCUP so I would imagine and by comprehending this thread that you have built some confidence in yourself.
I follow GSL and all live LAN events spanning even to BW but I'm not familiar with who you are.
For me this thread didn't shed much light on anything but gave some insight as to who you are. Apparently young, and proud of your accomplishments whatever they may be. But most of the advice you had given is individually intrinsic to yourself. That's not to say that people haven't gotten anything from this thread but to each his own.
I believe anyone involved in anything can become quite good with the proper practice, and everyone who has the determination to improve will look inside themselves and find what they need to get over their problems. A long time ago a Korean pro gamer when I was very young told me "No lose no learn". Which is a strong point that I like. This to me seems like more of an inspiration thread. Something for when people are down they can use. He is Gosu Pokebunny, best player in NYC by far and a fairly good pro. How could you not know of the Pokebunny Allowance Cup or the Perfect-Pokebunny grudgematch?
Well I'm quite sorry that I am not familiar with each states top professionals. Because as is, American professionalism in terms of performance as a whole, is of ill repute.
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On December 09 2011 07:28 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On December 08 2011 13:00 inamorato wrote:
The beginning of the thread it states that you are a top player as well as streamer. Before you made this claim you said you were a D on ICCUP so I would imagine and by comprehending this thread that you have built some confidence in yourself.
I follow GSL and all live LAN events spanning even to BW but I'm not familiar with who you are.
For me this thread didn't shed much light on anything but gave some insight as to who you are. Apparently young, and proud of your accomplishments whatever they may be. But most of the advice you had given is individually intrinsic to yourself. That's not to say that people haven't gotten anything from this thread but to each his own.
I believe anyone involved in anything can become quite good with the proper practice, and everyone who has the determination to improve will look inside themselves and find what they need to get over their problems. A long time ago a Korean pro gamer when I was very young told me "No lose no learn". Which is a strong point that I like. This to me seems like more of an inspiration thread. Something for when people are down they can use. He is Gosu Pokebunny, best player in NYC by far and a fairly good pro. How could you not know of the Pokebunny Allowance Cup or the Perfect-Pokebunny grudgematch? Well I'm quite sorry that I am not familiar with each states top professionals. Because as is, American professionalism in terms of performance as a whole, is of ill repute.
Well I've been to four MLGs knocking out players such as LiquidSheth, IMFenix, coLrsvp, won showmatches/tournament games vs many top players, qualified as one of eight Americans for IEM New York, have been featured stream on TL for a year.. etc.
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Your pretty savvy for a 16 year old. I'm thoroughly impressed. Good thread, good read.
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On December 09 2011 09:22 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:28 inamorato wrote:On December 08 2011 13:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On December 08 2011 13:00 inamorato wrote:
The beginning of the thread it states that you are a top player as well as streamer. Before you made this claim you said you were a D on ICCUP so I would imagine and by comprehending this thread that you have built some confidence in yourself.
I follow GSL and all live LAN events spanning even to BW but I'm not familiar with who you are.
For me this thread didn't shed much light on anything but gave some insight as to who you are. Apparently young, and proud of your accomplishments whatever they may be. But most of the advice you had given is individually intrinsic to yourself. That's not to say that people haven't gotten anything from this thread but to each his own.
I believe anyone involved in anything can become quite good with the proper practice, and everyone who has the determination to improve will look inside themselves and find what they need to get over their problems. A long time ago a Korean pro gamer when I was very young told me "No lose no learn". Which is a strong point that I like. This to me seems like more of an inspiration thread. Something for when people are down they can use. He is Gosu Pokebunny, best player in NYC by far and a fairly good pro. How could you not know of the Pokebunny Allowance Cup or the Perfect-Pokebunny grudgematch? Well I'm quite sorry that I am not familiar with each states top professionals. Because as is, American professionalism in terms of performance as a whole, is of ill repute. Well I've been to four MLGs knocking out players such as LiquidSheth, IMFenix, coLrsvp, won showmatches/tournament games vs many top players, qualified as one of eight Americans for IEM New York, have been featured stream on TL for a year.. etc.
I apologize if my standards for what a top tier player differs from yours. I believe you won show matches.I even believe you won against the players you named, but it wasn't in pool play or the late rounds of winners bracket so me not being familiar with who you are isn't a form of disrespect.
I've been around the competitive RTS scene since it began and my primary focus has always been the Korean leagues. Now that Star2 is out, and Koreans aren't governed by Kespa allowing them to come to MLG I would consider it a reputable tournament.
I'm happy for your accomplishments. I have no reason not to be, but as far as you dangling them around in this thread still means nothing to me. Success is subjective and my opinion of RTS success isn't qualifying for a tournament, or beating a few good players in a best of 3. But for you all that should really matter is where you hold yourself. If you're proud of yourself as a player or a person that is all that should matter.
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Enough with this type of thread. Less reading more action.
Sorry, I forgot TL SC 2 strategy section has turned into some sort of philosophical and psychological class.
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On December 09 2011 10:34 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Enough with this type of thread. Less reading more action.
Sorry, I forgot TL SC 2 strategy section has turned into some sort of philosophical and psychological class.
Isn't that what strategy's about? SC2 is a mind game IMO.
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The problem with these kinds of motivational topics which bring up laddering fear is that they don't really help. It's easy to say "Well, if I don't play, I don't get better, so ladder fear is stupid", but the thing about ladder fear is that it's irrational, you can't really fix it just by deciding that it's detrimental. Most people who have it, including myself, already know that it's dumb and that games don't mean anything, but again, it's irrational. If we could "just stop feeling it", we would.
It's not really about points or league though, at least for me. My problem is that I get extremely stressed, hand shaking etc because I HATE losing. I don't care if I lose points or if I'm taken down a league, it's just the very basic fact that I lost in itself. It's irrational since it doesn't even matter if I have a valid excuse (he's much better than me, he cheesed me and got lucky, I played bad because I'm tired etc), I still get noticeably depressed by every single loss. One could say that as you gett better and get into better leagues, your win rate should become 50% regardless, so why play if you can't stand losing? And that's exactly it, I stopped played 1v1 alltogether because I hate losing. That's why I play CoD on 360 with my clan, because we almost never lose. We might get challanged, by meeting another clan for example, but we lose very rarely if we actually try to win.
The way I started playing 1v1 again was by force. I made a bet with a guy I used to be much better than that if I could beat him in a bo7, he would change his name into something stupid on b.net, and if he won, I had to play 1v1 every day to make up for my suckage. I trained quite hard to get a good build vs protoss and he still won 4-1. No choice, and now I do play 1v1 every day. Summary: I don't think you can rationalize away your fear of laddering, you simply have to force yourself to play over and over and face it. Eventually, it should, hopefully, disappear.
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great write up! thanks for you effort!
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On December 09 2011 18:04 Neverplay wrote:
great write up! thanks for you effort!
Your name feels relevant to the topic 
On topic: its quite interesting to read your point of view and the fact that you don't rely on replays so much but the biggest takeaway for me - that nearly everybody should follow for nearly everything - is:
Just do it and play, losing does not make you worse as a person.
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Excellent advice on the practice part. I will try that tonight.
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On November 15 2011 04:57 Pokebunny wrote:
Confidence and Slumps
Everyone has had those days where nothing seems to go right. You're messing up your build order, missing all your injects/warpins/timings, and every build you do seems to be countered by your opponent.
One common mistake I see in these situations is defeatism. The first step in continuing to improve is, as I said before, no fear of failure. You need to be confident in your abilities - you ARE a good player, you did deserve that rank and all those wins you got on your way up. Just play your best, go for wins however you can - if you need to pull out a cheesy strategy to keep your confidence up, go for it! It's all part of the game, and no matter what happens, you won because you outplayed your opponent in the game that you are provided. There's no omniscient god of skill that determines arbitrarily who the best player is - the best player is the one that wins most.
Another problem is the opposite extreme - convincing yourself that you're better than everyone you beat, and refusing to accept losses as your opponent playing better than you. This again ties into fear of failure, and both extremes are equally likely to cause a player to get frustrated and stop playing. You need to recognize that every win and every loss is valid, every game is won by the player who played better. Especially in Starcraft 2 where the game is constantly shifting and developing and there's no true standard, any way to win is a valid one within the confines of the battlefield. Get in the habit of being positive about your own play and the play of your opponents - after you lose a long macro game, instead of saying "wow, that's such bullshit, protoss is so imba in macro games imba colossi" etc etc, you should try to be positive about both your opponent's play and yours. "Wow, my opponent really protected his colossi well and made a good unit composition, what could I have done to beat that? My macro was a bit lacking but it's improving, and I should've used my vikings better" is much better. You will find yourself being much more friendly to yourself and other players if you just assume both players are playing WELL rather than one using imbalance/bullshit or yourself/your opponent just being terrible.
Getting out of slumps just requires you to be patient and relax. Recognize that you will always lose games and win games, and soon enough you'll be winning. If you're really getting frustrated in an unproductive way and you find yourself being really negative, just get off the computer, go work out, take a shower, run around, find something else to do for a while. Keeping a positive mindset about your own play and the game will make it SO much more motivating, fun, and rewarding for you to play and succeed.
gLyo~!
Nick // Pokebunny
Very well written, especially for someone still in high school. The american education system isn't a complete failure.
Anyway, what I bolded really rings true for me. Both in my self and the opponents I play, this mentality of "I'm better than my opponent, they only won because X" is a real problem in this community. I sometimes struggle with accepting losses where I know I was at an advantage, or when I lose one game to someone I know I would beat 4 out of 5 times, this was just that 1/5th of the time. I think a lot of it has to do with ego, and I think I (and the community) need to take myself less seriously.
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On November 15 2011 05:11 Br3ezy wrote:
fear is such a weak emotion and that's why i despise it
Fear creates Adrenaline .. Adrenaline is Fuggin owesome!
You need to re-assess some of your thoughts on fear. I'm sure it helped us evolve.
OH AND GREAT POST POKE!! Ox)
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On December 09 2011 17:31 Tobberoth wrote:
The problem with these kinds of motivational topics which bring up laddering fear is that they don't really help. It's easy to say "Well, if I don't play, I don't get better, so ladder fear is stupid", but the thing about ladder fear is that it's irrational, you can't really fix it just by deciding that it's detrimental. Most people who have it, including myself, already know that it's dumb and that games don't mean anything, but again, it's irrational. If we could "just stop feeling it", we would.
It's not really about points or league though, at least for me. My problem is that I get extremely stressed, hand shaking etc because I HATE losing. I don't care if I lose points or if I'm taken down a league, it's just the very basic fact that I lost in itself. It's irrational since it doesn't even matter if I have a valid excuse (he's much better than me, he cheesed me and got lucky, I played bad because I'm tired etc), I still get noticeably depressed by every single loss. One could say that as you gett better and get into better leagues, your win rate should become 50% regardless, so why play if you can't stand losing? And that's exactly it, I stopped played 1v1 alltogether because I hate losing. That's why I play CoD on 360 with my clan, because we almost never lose. We might get challanged, by meeting another clan for example, but we lose very rarely if we actually try to win.
The way I started playing 1v1 again was by force. I made a bet with a guy I used to be much better than that if I could beat him in a bo7, he would change his name into something stupid on b.net, and if he won, I had to play 1v1 every day to make up for my suckage. I trained quite hard to get a good build vs protoss and he still won 4-1. No choice, and now I do play 1v1 every day. Summary: I don't think you can rationalize away your fear of laddering, you simply have to force yourself to play over and over and face it. Eventually, it should, hopefully, disappear.
The moment you stop caring about winning is the moment you stop fearing the ladder.
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On December 15 2011 07:01 HyTex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 17:31 Tobberoth wrote:
The problem with these kinds of motivational topics which bring up laddering fear is that they don't really help. It's easy to say "Well, if I don't play, I don't get better, so ladder fear is stupid", but the thing about ladder fear is that it's irrational, you can't really fix it just by deciding that it's detrimental. Most people who have it, including myself, already know that it's dumb and that games don't mean anything, but again, it's irrational. If we could "just stop feeling it", we would.
It's not really about points or league though, at least for me. My problem is that I get extremely stressed, hand shaking etc because I HATE losing. I don't care if I lose points or if I'm taken down a league, it's just the very basic fact that I lost in itself. It's irrational since it doesn't even matter if I have a valid excuse (he's much better than me, he cheesed me and got lucky, I played bad because I'm tired etc), I still get noticeably depressed by every single loss. One could say that as you gett better and get into better leagues, your win rate should become 50% regardless, so why play if you can't stand losing? And that's exactly it, I stopped played 1v1 alltogether because I hate losing. That's why I play CoD on 360 with my clan, because we almost never lose. We might get challanged, by meeting another clan for example, but we lose very rarely if we actually try to win.
The way I started playing 1v1 again was by force. I made a bet with a guy I used to be much better than that if I could beat him in a bo7, he would change his name into something stupid on b.net, and if he won, I had to play 1v1 every day to make up for my suckage. I trained quite hard to get a good build vs protoss and he still won 4-1. No choice, and now I do play 1v1 every day. Summary: I don't think you can rationalize away your fear of laddering, you simply have to force yourself to play over and over and face it. Eventually, it should, hopefully, disappear. The moment you stop caring about winning is the moment you stop fearing the ladder.
Don't stop caring about winning. Just stop caring about losing. If you don't care about winning, then there is no incentive to improve. You should be proud of your wins and winning should feel good! After all that's why we play this game.
I think what you are getting at though is a change of goals. Focus each game on specific goals, and you will find that even if you lose, as long as you complete your pre-planned goal, you will feel much better and even have a drive to play ladder.
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EPT
