EPT[D] What to spend your gas on late game in TvP? - Page 3
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Dredrick
United States32 Posts
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jrdn
United States132 Posts
If I scan and they are still on colossus tech I attack and generally win outright. If I scan and they are transitioning to air I pump out 2 rounds of vikings then attack. If templar tech I will usually attack but make sure not to clump banshees. So far this has been a very successful strategy for me even though it is still under development. I recommend air to all my terran brothers, especially banshees en masse. | ||
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GGPope
Australia367 Posts
Also, in the extreme lategame, Battlecruisers are REALLY good against Protoss. As long as you can keep Feedbacks off of them, by EMPing the templar, or your own battlecruisers, a giant fleet of 3-3 battlecruisers is actually alarmingly hard to deal with for protoss. At around 550~ pt. Master level on NA, I'm yet to lose a lategame TvP where my composition has ended at a large fleet of Battlecruisers w/ ghost support, and it's not just because I'm 50 supply up or something like that. With a few Ravens for PDD, a few vikings if he chooses voidrays to counter your BCs, a few ghosts for a blanket EMP, a huge 3-3 BC fleet is nigh on unstoppable, and a really cool tech-switch for super, super lategame TvP. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On November 08 2011 23:35 GGPope wrote: Speed reaper harass and nukes I like the sound of. But really, I'd just avoid overmining gas. Also, in the extreme lategame, Battlecruisers are REALLY good against Protoss. As long as you can keep Feedbacks off of them, by EMPing the templar, or your own battlecruisers, a giant fleet of 3-3 battlecruisers is actually alarmingly hard to deal with for protoss. At around 550~ pt. Master level on NA, I'm yet to lose a lategame TvP where my composition has ended at a large fleet of Battlecruisers w/ ghost support, and it's not just because I'm 50 supply up or something like that. With a few Ravens for PDD, a few vikings if he chooses voidrays to counter your BCs, a few ghosts for a blanket EMP, a huge 3-3 BC fleet is nigh on unstoppable, and a really cool tech-switch for super, super lategame TvP. Your BC strat would be a lot more failsafe if you EMPed them with your ghosts yourself. Just a thought. EMPing them = Risky but higher payoff since it removes their shields as well. | ||
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
Battlecruisers, thors and ravens are just so easy for Protoss to counter they really are not worth it unless you are so far ahead you can e.g. trade armies and remax with like 3-4 starport production | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On November 08 2011 18:55 Ganseng wrote: no. between equally skilled players, reapers don't work. open your mind | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
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Qntc.YuMe
United States792 Posts
Gas = medivacs and Ghosts. Versing colossus = vikings | ||
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rebuffering
Canada2436 Posts
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
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Huntz
164 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On November 07 2011 15:35 Ganseng wrote: People what are you talking about? Seeker missile? Range of 6 on feedback's range of 9? What? PDDs? Against Zealot/Archon/Colossus? 1-2 Ravens may be good to nullify the Stalkers, but Stalkers are usually not the problem by themselves. BCs? No thank you. 35.5 dps for 400/300/6/90 and with 1.88 speed. Bad idea. Just remember the Boxer vs. HasuObs Game 1 in NASL Season 1, BCs were killed by pure storms (!) Thors? No, not with feedback. You have to emp them, and to have enough EMPs for all the Protoss stuff. Too much effort and investment, and it's not worth it in the end. Reapers? Could be good, but with 45 s build time not really (actually it looks like Blizzard initially planned that Reapers would be gas damp for Terran bio, and they had 30 s build time in beta, but then Blizzard decided to screw them...) Reapers don't even inflict much more dps on light targets than marines (16.36 compared to 10.5, and comparison with not-light targets is too heavily in Marines' favor). The only good idea is to get nukes, it's gas heavy and can be very annoying. Compared to drops, nukes require much less supply and minerals, but take a lot of gas. And banshees are good for late game raiding out of my experience as well, but we don't see them much in the best players' games. Other than that, looks like the sarcastic Zergie is correct, we just have to rely on minerals and forget about that silly things called "Terran high tech".in TvP. ... Battlecruisers also have a huge health pool and don't get hit by anything but stalkers/storms. They're a good gas dump, as are ravens. Thors are also quite good if they have a decent stalker count. Reapers are used for killing expansions and not for fighting, qxc occasionally adds 5-10 reapers late game TvP and kills expansions with them. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it can work. As for "not having enough emps" this is LATE LATE game. You should have a really high ghost count and most of them should have a nice energy pool. On November 09 2011 08:48 rebuffering wrote: im trying to go mech vs toss now, it eats up a shit tonne of gas, which is nice, and spend my minerals on blue flame hellions,. but guess what, blizzard just wants us to go marauders vs toss, its ridiculous, im losing so many games trying to figure out how to mech vs toss, but it seems impossible. honestly tired of going bio now, i just want to mech, but it dies to zelots, or colossus, or blink, or immortals. Im going crazy. But i will find a way, or get demoted to diamond trying. SlayerS_Dragon was beating high GM tosses with mech and I've seen some really nice TvP mech from Goody. You have to position everything perfectly and never get caught unseiged though. Not really worth it as marauders are just as good in a straight up fight and don't take 10 years to move around the map. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
huk vs. thorzain on shakuras: thorzain wins with marauders and ghosts and huk's mistakes, builds and certainly wastes some reapers in the process. doesn't mine gas at 3 of his 6 bases and has a 4-digit gas surplus. qxc vs. genius on xel'naga: weird indecisive 1-year old game. qxc wins with ghosts and marauders, occasionally builds and wastes some reapers dealing minor damage with them. 3rd game... tvz. so wait what is your point exactly? | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:11 Ganseng wrote: huk vs. thorzain on shakuras: thorzain wins with marauders and ghosts and huk's mistakes, builds and certainly wastes some reapers in the process. doesn't mine gas at 3 of his 6 bases and has a 4-digit gas surplus. qxc vs. genius on xel'naga: weird indecisive 1-year old game. qxc wins with ghosts and marauders, occasionally builds and wastes some reapers dealing minor damage with them. 3rd game... tvz. so wait what is your point exactly? Game 1. Speed reapers snipe a nexus, many probes, and many zealots Game 2. Qxc takes out the forge upgrading +3, seriously delaying Genius' upgrades, as well as general economic harassment throughout the late game Game 3. You can't auto link past the first game in gomtv.net In the 2nd game, qxc uses 8-9 reapers to snipe BBi's 4th base and probes, setting him up to win the game a few minutes later. They are reapers, not the magic, be-all end-all of TvP, but a very nice late game option to spread tosses out and make opportunities. Don't expect 8-9 50/50 costing units to annihilate your opponent..... | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:40 alphafuzard wrote: Game 1. Speed reapers snipe a nexus, many probes, and many zealots Game 2. Qxc takes out the forge upgrading +3, seriously delaying Genius' upgrades, as well as general economic harassment throughout the late game Game 3. You can't auto link past the first game in gomtv.net In the 2nd game, qxc uses 8-9 reapers to snipe BBi's 4th base and probes, setting him up to win the game a few minutes later. They are reapers, not the magic, be-all end-all of TvP, but a very nice late game option to spread tosses out and make opportunities. Don't expect 8-9 50/50 costing units to annihilate your opponent..... game 1 - reapers do kill the nexus, but it was simply a multi-pronged attack, marauders would have done it better due to their higher dps and much higher durability. anyways, it were engagements that won thorzain the game, not harrass, and certainly not reaper harrass. overall reapers costed thorzain much more resources than they inflicted damage to huk. and again thorzain didn't mine gas on half of his bases, and still had a very high gas surplus. game 2 - it was really weird, indecisive and passive for a professional level, you have to admit it. the only noticeable damage dealt by reapers was destruction of that forge, and really, by then genius should've been on 3-3-3 already. reapers may come to play sometimes in the late tvp, but their rare successes just prove the overall rule: reapers are bad. there are two reasons for it: -they build too long; -they are worth nothing in a direct engagement. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
Besides adding a couple ravens for PDD Viking protection vs stalker fire, there's no efficient way to spend the gas surplus. You're mineral starved so every resource spent on a reaper, or un-upgraded Thor is sub-optimal. Terran doesn't have many options in late game and usually has a surplus of gas, it'd be nice if Blizzard added a late game high tier tech unit that could soak up some of the excess gas and be useful. If the Battle Hellion and Warhound additions open up mech play as a more viable option, the problem won't exist. I have doubts the Warhound will be useful in TvP, but I'm very optimistic about the Battle Hellion. | ||
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