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[G]My unique way of playing zerg(by a Chinese boy)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 13:03:32
September 24 2011 10:29 GMT
#1
Hi guys,
I am a grandmaster-level zerg (TOP 50 in china server and master level in Korean server)I am

from china and I live in China,so my English might not be so good. But I really want to

improve my English skills while talking with you.I have been playing zerg for 1 year and tried

lots of strategies.Some works and some don’t.I am here to share some of my best strategies.

7 roaches opening (Not a rush opening) (for ZVT,ZVP)
+ Show Spoiler +
I remember clearly how I was defeated by all sorts of annoying strategies like 4 gates ,viod

ray,DT RUSH,4RAXes all innings,4 banshee at a very early time,dropping the blue flame

hellions,etc.I mean these strategies really pissed me off .And I wonder whether zerg players

have no choice but to guess and defend at the early game?All zerg players know it’s very hard

to scout unless you sacrifice an overlord.At that time,I came up with a strategy that solved

this problem,.

Standard Build Order:

13d pool
16d gas (the time you have 100 minerals will be the best)
15d overlord
When the pool is done,make 4 lings and 1 queen.
The next larva is for drone and then save the larva.Don’t throw down the Roach warren

until the 4/5 of the morphing process of the queen.It’s the very best time to do it.You do

this to ensure you a better economy and it’s the best way to hide your strategy.
Before

the 7 roaches is popped out,1 ling should make a good scouting.The other 3 lings and queen

keep the SCV out of your base.My best record of 7 roaches popping out is 4:55,I believe you

can it too.One more importing thing to remember is to control your overlord to fly a proper

route.
When your roaches are coming out,it’s time to move your overlord to make sure you

can attack something at his base with the view of the overlord.
Now it’s in your pace.While you are having a good push in the front,another importing thing

is how you developed in your base.

After get the 7 roaches,the Build order(A general one):

1 overlord, 3-drone-gas switches to 1-drone-gas.
QUEEN Spawn two creeps continuously
Throw down your second base
The second queen
Wait for 100 gas,upgrade the speed of lings
Wait for 70 gas,throw down the evo chamber
Wait for 100 gas,upgrade the +1 attack of lings
During the process,all larvas should become as many drones as possible.Build one spine

if necessary.
If you have a good micro of roaches,you can seriously influence your opponents’ pace and win

yourself a long time to make drones safely.
The purpose of the strategy is not to rush and win the game,it’s to scout the opponent

’s tech through pushing and ensure we can expand our second base safely.


situation not suitable:
ZVP:FOUR GATES at a very early time and with a good micro
ZVT:4RAXES ALL-ININGS

situation win you a great advantage
ZVT: quick Hellion 1 RAX CC
ZVP:DT RUSH, VIOD-RAY RUSH,or any other quick-tech rush,or a quick expansion with a few

sentries and zealots.The cannon expansion is very special one(next time I’ll tell you how to

cope with it)

It really works at the Xel'Naga Caverns and the similar short distance maps.
But for the long distance map like Shakuras Plateau or Tal'darim Altar LE,The strategy is not

recommended.Terran and Protoss can easily block their ramp and build some defense.



Replays
(ZVP)7roaches opening http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248940


(ZVT)7roaches opening http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233893


FOR THE ZVT,another two general openings I am using are 14D speed-ling opening and 15

hatch.Next time I will talk about them.Due to my English skill,it’ll take a very long time to

write down what I am thinking.(I promise I’ll make it a complete series a few days

later.About how to cope with all sorts of harassment terran can make at the early game)





Now let’s move to the fascinating macro of ZVT----core of my strategy.

+ Show Spoiler +
In my mind,zerg is the best race-Agile,flexible
On the contrary,It takes a long time for terran to push to zerg’s Natural and to supply the

front army.
Trust me,zerg player can never beat a terran player if you don’t know how to separate

terran’s armies.

Alaways maintaining a good mobible army is very essential.
At the early game,it could be SPEEDLINGS.
MID GAME,MUTA and SPEEDLINGS is perfect.
In my opinion,economy is much more important than quick tech in ZVT,so what I am

talking here is based on my unique opening-you should have a Good Creep spread,a good control

of minerals gases,I generally put my second extractor very late,but putting down my third base

is quite early.

In the MID-GAME,based on your scouting,if he goes for

1.one base quick tech, whatever quick hellions, banshee rush,quick drop or anything else.



The solution is to make as many queens as possible,and third base is priority to
Lair,even you can throw down your fourth hatch to ensure you a great number of larvas.In

general ,4-5 queen is ok,it can block ramps as well,all sorts of tactics terran can play seems

useless.And REMEMBER, Creep spreading is very important,never stop it with so many queens.

2.Typicalbio Expand,with the combination of marines and tanks and medivacs,pushing out at

the time of 8:30-10:00.


If terran played like this,no harassment,no hellions,it’s time for your mobile amry to

shine,grab the watch towers,and put 1 ling just in front of his natural.As his Army is coming

out,it’s time for you to sneak into his base, cutting his reinforcements and do some damage

to his economy.Seperate terran’s units and break them!

3.the combination of marines and marauders,keeps put pressure on you.

You can cope with it easily with lings and banelings,speed upgraded.Even if terran player

micro perfectly,your combination can easily handle it.But remember,don’t hurry to enagage

with him ,cut the reinforcements and upgrade your attack and carapace is much more important.



download replay:

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233896


Three typical ways how terran will play in the mid-game.Mech strategy is powerful ,I will

discuss it later.

Remenber these thing I play in the mid-game;
quickly upgrade the speed of lings,quickly upgrade +1 melee attacks.After you lair,the

first thing is to upgrade +2 melee attacks and +1 ground carapace.With the time passing by,the

quality of Your army is becoming better and better.I am introducing a way that will make you

army stronger with the time pass by.


Here we go, the most amazing part of my stratedy,the late game of ZVT.
Spine clawer is a leading role,the general combination are speedlings,a few

banelings,muta,infestor,tons of spines and nydus worm.The way I play in the late game is like

the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking

and harassing is my approach.

About how to expand and how to protect your expansion

In my ZVT competition, defense is the core.Spine clawer is my favourite. REMENBER,never ever

engage with a terran army if yours is less powerful than his!Choose a furthest point to expand

your 4th or 5th considering the poor mobility of terran (your third base can be near though.)

Build one nydus worm near any new base,it’s a easy way to deliver drones to work and

infestors to defend.Build 5+ spines around your new base.Infestor is indispensable for

defending your bases.Every base should at least equipped with one Infestor,At the center of

the battlefield,building 20+ spine clawers will be a normal thing for me,provided with 4-5

infestors.These things formed a very solid defense system,Terran ‘s pushing is delayed by

your spine wall.It wins you huge amounts of time and ensure you a very steady economy.


Now it’s time to counterattack!

By the way,never ever let terran expand to his fourth,never!

Two ways to attack

First,tons of +3attack +3carapace muta,with nydus worm delivering lings to his base.

It’s very essential to keep your muta,muta is vulnerable if it’s not in great number.Do

not engage with his main army,instead head to his original base and destroy all his building

(REMENBER TO keep your muta in a large number!!!If tons of marines come back,just fly away

and find somewhere else you can attack. Poor mobility makes Terran impossible to defend

everywhere) Completly destroy his economy and Command Center.Now it’s your time to decide

when to have a good engagement,I think he’ll GG before you do that.Large numbers of muta is

suitable for a wide and large map,such as Tal'darim Altar LE .

Second,let’s go for brood lords,maybe 8-10 brood lords is ok.

With some lings and infestors,the terran army can’t hold it.If he has some Vikings,go for

hydralisks or just corruptors.This tactic is suitable for a small narrow map like Xel'Naga

Caverns.Terran’s base can be easily attacked.If you go for brood lords in a wide big map,it

can be easily shot down by mass marines or Vikings and it moves so slowly and it takes too

long a time for them to join the front battlefield.

ZVT is all about patience. Cultivate your patience and you will win the game.

(Some details of other two opening and how to cope with mech in the late games I’ll write in

the the later days)


replay download: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233898




the power of mass muta and spine defense system is showed is this replay.


OK,let’s see some ZVZ strategies.
Accually I am not very good at zvz,but there’s one opening I am quite confident with.

+ Show Spoiler +
Here’s the build order:
10 extractor trick for both exractor,but cancel just one extractor.
Pull 2 drone to the exractor.Wait a moment and then pull the third one into it..Don’t pull

them to minerals until you have 88 gas.
Wait for 200 minerals,build pool
10 overlord
11 get one drone.Build a queen and upgrade speed of lings at the same time as your pool is

done.There will be a waste of larvas,but it’s ok.Then you should make all your larvas into

speedlings.Your queen will pop out at a very early time,so your spawning larva is much quicker

than your opponent,which means you can have far more speedlings than his and have the map

control. A normal 14 drone exractor will complete speed upgrade at 5:00.However yours is

4:30,and with 10+ lings ahead your opponent. And any 9pool 8 pool 7 pool 6 pool will be a joke

competing with you.

If you opponent goes for

14D speedlings and quick expand
Though his expansion is quick,it is dangerous and he is short of lings to compete with you.He

will absolutely lose his second base unless he keeps producing lings and have a incredible

micro.(Here’s a trick.When your first 4 lings poped out,take one for scouting and the other

three hold on your ramp to prevent your opponent’s lings from scouting.It can really puzzle

your opponent,because the time your ling coming out is just like a normal 13d

opening.Generally your opponents ling’ll come out and scout,but it’s slow lings,you can

easily beat them between 4:30-5:00 with speed lings.)With your reinforcements joining the

front lings,it’s time to push to his ramp to see if you can beat him at the early

game.Normally he can’t hold it,at least he’ll lose a great number of drones.(Drone hard

when your pushing start,and build the second queen,because he may transfer to banelings or

roaches.It’s meaningless to keep pushing
)I believe when the first pushing is over,your

drone is 3-5 ahead your opponent.This really win you a great advantage,it’s much easier to

beat him in the later game.

15D hatchery
15D hatchery makes me confused whether my opening works.I was defeated at the Tal'darim Altar

LE on the Korean server by 15D hatchery.Due to the long distance,he defended my first pushing

successfully with 2 queens and some lings.And all my speedlings died.There’s no way I can

play at that circumstances.So coping with the 15D hatchery,rush is the only way.The game will

end at the early time.However,I think most people can’t hold it when he goes for 15D hatchery

if you can hide your opening well.However,the opening is still not recommended in a long

distance map.

14D speedlings and banelings
If he goes for banelings at an early time,the best way is to put pressure on him,micro

speedlings to consume his banelings and win you some time to drone hard and resume collecting

gases.Don’t forget to build a spine clawer(ensure you a safe expansion in the late game) and

a second queen, which helps a lot in spreading creep and blocking ramp. When you have 50

gases,throw down your baneling nest.

Quick roach openings
If he goes for roach at an early time,the number of them won’t be sufficient to defend your

push,which means you can at least kill some of his drone.

The purpose of this opening is to have an early control of the map and you can drone

safely.On the other hand,you don’t need to worry about a rush opening,but 6 pool still works

in short-distance maps.So it depends on your micro.


10D replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233899




HOOOO,I have to take a rest,it takes me such a long time to write down this and promise I’

ll complete the rest of my strategy.
But I can’t wait to create my topic and see your

response.I am wondering whether you can understand what I am talking about.I believe there are

many grammar mistakes in my article.I just want to read more threads and watch more VODS to

improve my writing skill,ensuring to share the best my of ZVP strategy.

Some other replays i want to share with you at the moment,and i'll discuss them later in

my thread.


+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233890

How to win the game through mass muta in ZVP(sacrifice your orginal base and nartural but

destory his base completely)



http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233892

how to make a 3 base rush(Hydralisk&lings)

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233900

a new thought on how to play in the late game of ZVZ(using mass infestor)

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233897

How to beat terran without muta.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233895

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=233894

two replay about how to beat a mass mech army in the late game of ZVT.


OK,i think the essence of all my strategy is "避实击虚".AHA,i know most of you don't

understand these four characters.But it doesn't matter,just experience them in my replays.
One more thing,feel free to PM me.
And this is my MSN: pppjjjsss@126.com
If you want to play with me,you can contact me with the MSN.
I can play at the NA server,Korean server.
I am looking forward to make friends with you.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Hi guys i am back ,today is 2012.1.7. I have accomplished my ZVZ and ZVP part,enjoy!

It has been maybe four months since I posted my first thread. But I never stop playing sc2, so

I come up with some new ideas to share with you.

ZVZ

+ Show Spoiler +
Let’s start with ZVZ matchup, which really confused me for a long time.However these days, I

find some key points to win this matchup.

Before that, ask yourself a question. Do you have an over-all game plan?

Not only in ZVZ(also in ZVT and ZVP), it’s the very basic quality you required if you want to

be a really good player.

Let me give you an example. My ZVZ over-all game plan is as follows:

Early-game: try to scout opponent’s army scale and drone number through speedling sneaking or

banelings. And based what I’ve scouted, I can decide when to stop droning, when to throw down

a roach Warren, how many spines should I build and when to update my lair. The critical point

in the early-game is to get as many drones as possible , which provide a solid foundation for

your economy.

OK, now we move to the mid-game , we have to choose our tech. Muta or infestor? Roach or

hydralisk?

Nono, it’s important but which to choose is not the most important. You may ask what should I

do to ensure a solid win? The answer is to be always economically head of your opponent(For

example, you should expand your third earlier than your opponent and deny your opponent’s).

That’s the critical point. We also have two ways to do that, one is strengthen our own

economy, the other is to slow down your opponent’s economy. Most of the time, a good player

can do both thing at the same time.


Personally, I prefer the muta tech, which makes me feel active in the mid-game.

OK, remember again. Two things you should do in and after the mid game, one is to strengthen

your own economy, one is to destroy your opponent’s. Here’s some details of transition from

the mid-game.

Muta → roaches →mass infestors and mass spine clawers(2BV updating attack and carapace) if

your opponent goes for a typical roach/hydralisk/infestor combination.

Muta→mass muta →mass infestors and mass spine clawers if your opponent goes for mass muta in

the mid game.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248943

a typical muta play against infestor&roach&hydralisk. The best thing i do in this replay is to

kill his third.


If you are wondering what is the ultimate combination of ZVZ?

My answer is mass infestors and mass spines.
Being attacked from all diretions by burrowed infestors,

watching the spine sea waving their bodies, your opponents will go crazy. You may

say Broodlords or ultra will work. Try itself with your friends. You’ll believe me, mass

infestors = imba.

Try to organize multiple attacking in the late game to accomplish your task(strengthen your

economy, destroy your opponent’s).

Now if you are clear about your ZVZ over-all game plan, let me introduce another practical

opening for ZVZ.

Standard build order:

It’s mostly like a speedling opening but it’s very quick in baneling and expansion.

See in my replays.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248942

this replay shows the details of my opening and what to do when you reach 200 and have a lot
of minerals.
It's exciting when i engage with my opponents. Don't miss it.


The initial four banelings are very important, how to hide them is something you have to think

deeply.

I think this opening is suitable for a long-distance map. (Cause you have more space to hide

your banelings).

And this is obviously not an aggressive play, all I want to do is to drone a lot more than my

opponent. Four banelings can make him nervous and attracting his attention from the front

battlefield. The game pace is under your control.

Some details you should pay attention in the replay.

Drone to 16 and then make 4 lings and then 1drone and then it depends on your scouting.

1 spine clawer is required.


Oh ye, now let’s see some strategies about ZVP now.

+ Show Spoiler +
What I am talking about all the time is the “over-all game plan”.

I am a lazy man, a very lazy man. So I decide not to go deeply into all the details. Such as

the standard build order or whatever. I think a replay can substitute for it.

So I’ll mainly talk about my thought on this matchup and how to react to your opponent under

some circumstances.

Ask yourself, did you play ZVT and ZVP in the same way? I mean besides you won’t produce the

same army, is there anything difference? Let me give you my answer. In a short way, ZVT

economy > army. But ZVP is the opposite, army > economy .Let me explain, terran’s push is

slow and he may siege and unsiege his tank, which gives you a lot of time to strength your

economy. My ZVT strategy is inspired by the BroodWar player sAviOr(IPXZERG).So I tend to play

ZVT in a sustainable way rather than in an aggressive way. I tried to do the same thing in

zvp. But I kept failing all the time. Once Protoss has expanded his third or more, it seems

impossible to compete with protoss’s mixed armies(I mean the ground unit). I beat protoss in

the late game only by mass mutas. I have to commit mass mutas are IMBA. But that’s seems the

only way zerg player have chance to win protoss in the late game. However, the transition in

the mid-game is very dangerous. You don’t know when he’ll coming out and give you a timing

attack, besides, your muta isn’t upgrated(0 attack).

So I tried to play another way, the aggressive way.

My opening is a general 14D speed ling expand. The advantage is to restrict his scouting and

to control the map easily in the early game.

Then it’s a 2 base 3 hatchery pace. (For details you can download my replays.)

In the mid-game, what you have to do is based on what your opponent’s choice is. Two timing

for overlord scouting. One is around 7 minutes. One is when your lair update is finished, you

can morph an overseer to have a throughout scouting. The scouting in the mid-game is very very

very important!!!


And remember these things in ZVP:

IF your army is positive, never ever stop attacking!! Attack your opponent in every body

position. My critical attacking point is my opponent’s mineral line. Most of the time, I’ll

put my overlord in a particular position and then fill it with 4 or 8 banelings and then fly a

beautiful route to accomplish our bombing task, it is a multiple task, you have to attack in

the front battlefield at the same time to attract his attention.

Multiple attacking is the way I control the game pace of ZVP.

Never stop attacking…
Never stop attacking…
Never stop attacking…
Never stop attacking…
Remember in mind.

Now my big problem is how to win ZVP if P have already expand his fourth. I seldom win under

that circumstances. I want to discuss with you about this problem.


Now I want to analyze some typical protoss playing and how to react to them.(Based on my 2

base 3 hatchery)

Now most protoss try to make a FFE opening. SO let’s start with this.

All strategies follows are based on a FFE opening.

1. An immortal and sentry PUSH

Immortal+sentry+zealot+stalker

Very powerful against heavy roach army.

Have you ever thought of making mass +2 speedlings and banelings to hold this? But remember,

you should upgrade the speed and drop of your overlords.(Very important)

And you can multiple-task him through dropping zerglings in his main and hold his push easily

by dropping banelings on his head and your +2 zerglings will end the push.

This is very effective against this kind of push.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248945



2. stargate harassment
One viod-ray or a little bit of phoenixes

Upgrade the speed and the drop at once when the lair is finished.

And then you have to drop everywhere, in his main, in his natural.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248945
it's a very exciting replay,it's quick in pace. Mutiple task is everywhere. DROP DROP DROP!!
In this replay, although his phoenixes have found my overlords, my army still arrived in his
main and did a lot damage. This is how I control the game pace.


3. 7 gateway push

A few sentries, stalkers and zealots

This push is mainly depends on the protoss micro.

I remember MC VS DRG on Shakuras Plateau in GSL. MC pushed to DRG’S natural with 12 sentries,

and his forcefield is pretty cool. That time DRG failed to hold the push although he had

upgraded the burrow. Burrow is necessary to hold that sentry heavy army. Don’t hurry to

engage with him. Burrow properly and wait for your reinforcement to pop out. Mass lings and

roaches will hold this.

4. +3 fast colossus and mass stalkers without sentries

Simple way: upgrade burrow and burrow move for roaches.

Produce mass roaches to end the battle.

5. +1 +2 +3 mass blink stalkers

It is really based on protoss’s micro.

Mass blink stalkers are very powerful. Roaches can’t beat them. Maybe mass +2 zerglings and

banelings are the answer.


IF your opponent goes for a 3 gateway expansion, you have to throw down the roach warren a bit

early and produce a bunch of zerglings to pick up his outside probe and destroy his outside

pylon as his army go away.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248947
This replay shows how to organize a multiple attacking in the mid-game. BTW, the baneling boom
in his mineral line is very impressive.


replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248946
This replay shows an aggressive way to handle this, but this map is wide and protoss can’t
protect his natural that easily. Probably not suitable in other maps.


BTW, i am now in winter vacation. So i've decide to free coaching in the future to improve my oral english.
Anyone no matter what level you are wants to be coached , you can just PM me and we can make an appointment
I have a skype account. But i am still not familiar with it.
I can play on NA and Korean Server.
I coach you how to play zerg. You teach me english.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
spatz
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany153 Posts
September 24 2011 10:36 GMT
#2
nice thread, going to watch the replays wenn i m back home.
Ingebrigtsen
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Norway343 Posts
September 24 2011 10:56 GMT
#3
Nice and thorough, thank you
"These animals should be rewarded for not being people... I hate people"
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 11:28:59
September 24 2011 11:18 GMT
#4
Wow. I just tried it a few times and my opponents didn't understand what was going on, so I took huge advantages. I like it ^_^

Edit: By that I mean they thought it was an all in or cheese and I was 100% committing to it. The (Suuuuper low) Masters I tried it on weren't much of a gauge of the build but I validated your replays with my own experience. It's an aggressive opening but on smaller rush distances it has proven, for me at least, to be a very potent one. I incorporated hydras over roaches as well with a subsequent infestation pit since the current trend is make as many immortals as possible. Lovely.

Very enjoyable build, fun to play against protoss!
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
beamingrobot
Profile Joined October 2010
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 11:25:55
September 24 2011 11:24 GMT
#5
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "

Am I correct?

On the strats: You talked about hiding behind spines, what if the Terran decides to just double expo?
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 24 2011 11:31 GMT
#6
On September 24 2011 20:24 beamingrobot wrote:
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "

Am I correct?

On the strats: You talked about hiding behind spines, what if the Terran decides to just double expo?


what is " double expo"?
i am not very familiar with the starcraft2 word..Can anyone explain to me what does this mean?
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
alisru
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia22 Posts
September 24 2011 11:37 GMT
#7
he puts down 2 command centres
OH GOD WHY
beamingrobot
Profile Joined October 2010
United States685 Posts
September 24 2011 11:38 GMT
#8
On September 24 2011 20:31 LXB3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 20:24 beamingrobot wrote:
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "

Am I correct?

On the strats: You talked about hiding behind spines, what if the Terran decides to just double expo?


what is " double expo"?
i am not very familiar with the starcraft2 word..Can anyone explain to me what does this mean?

Oh double expansion, meaning he takes two expansions at once when he spots you playing passive.
And in my bad 国语,同时间开两个矿。
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 11:47:43
September 24 2011 11:41 GMT
#9
On September 24 2011 20:31 LXB3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 20:24 beamingrobot wrote:
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "

Am I correct?

On the strats: You talked about hiding behind spines, what if the Terran decides to just double expo?


what is " double expo"?
i am not very familiar with the starcraft2 word..Can anyone explain to me what does this mean?


Double expo means you expand two times = )
Anyways, good to read your guide. I'm from Singapore[新加坡],
我也会讲华语, 但是,我华语的不是说太好 =(
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 24 2011 12:08 GMT
#10
On September 24 2011 20:24 beamingrobot wrote:
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "

Am I correct?

On the strats: You talked about hiding behind spines, what if the Terran decides to just double expo?


it's ok ,what i am talking about is the late game of ZVT.At the early game,1 or 2 spine is ok.You worried about Terran's good economy at a very early time?Just expand as faster as you can and drone hard.He won't be safe to double expo unless he goes for hellions.
However,in the late game,when you have 4 or 5 base,you can speed some money on the spine to ensure you a steady ecnonomy and delay his pushing time.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
Tef
Profile Joined April 2008
Sweden443 Posts
September 24 2011 13:20 GMT
#11
Thanks LXB3.. I just used your advice,
避实击虚 = "The way I play in the late game is like the Chinese kungfu- tai chi.Seldom do I attack terran's main amry ,instead defensing,sneaking and harassing is my approach. "
I have also found a new interest in nydus and drop play thanks to your reps. It has been very fun to play today, even when I lose
Dont fuck up, dont fuck yourself
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
September 24 2011 13:22 GMT
#12
Really love this guide. I've been sticking to 14/14 for vP and vT, simply because it's what I know and those don't tend to give me problems, but vZ I've been having one hell of a time recently. This play style has confused my opponents so far, which is awesome.

I don't like the roach aspect of the build, I just don't like roaches in general, but the idea of an economic sling opener is really interesting and has so far been beneficial. I'm able to delay expansions, hit drone lines, and expand myself with map control in the early game. I'm also one of those guys that doesn't drone scout, so this gets my scouting done much earlier zvz than I'm used to.

The last game I played I used the fast slings to scout roaches, plopped down a couple spines at my nat, get 4 gas and use that to tech to lair and get sling upgrades (I ended up going muta into ultra, which ended up beating out his more hydra than roach army).

I'm only a higher plat player, and float a ton of resources, but I can see the benefit of the idea behind the build in higher levels of play.

Thanks for the tips and guide, LXB3, well played
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
RiT4LiN
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands131 Posts
September 24 2011 13:26 GMT
#13
Your english is good and I realy love your guide! Thank you so mutch..
A quote
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
September 24 2011 13:52 GMT
#14
Love your playstyle, reminds me a bit of BW Zerg with the Nydus and drops
I think esports is pretty nice.
ssartor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States129 Posts
September 24 2011 14:01 GMT
#15
Excellent guide, looking forward to the ZvZ build order.
"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." — Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
September 24 2011 14:02 GMT
#16
Nice strat! I've been doing something similar in ZvT but taking my hatch first then massing the roaches. Your build order probably makes more sense as I'm not doing much with the hatch during the push and am delaying it.
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 24 2011 14:08 GMT
#17
On September 24 2011 22:52 Saechiis wrote:
Love your playstyle, reminds me a bit of BW Zerg with the Nydus and drops


Actually i am a BW player and stilling watching it.
Still I love BW more than SC2,it's where my dream begins.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
tre
Profile Joined December 2010
8 Posts
September 24 2011 14:23 GMT
#18
Great guide so far! Thanks LXB3!
Phlatline
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Croatia176 Posts
September 24 2011 14:38 GMT
#19
I'm gonna try this Seams like my old style that don't work no more + spines
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 24 2011 14:44 GMT
#20
I am going to sleep right now.It's very late in china.This is my first thread in english.I'am really happy to see these replys.Tomorrow i'll answer your questions.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
September 24 2011 15:29 GMT
#21
Will try it out.
But isnt 13pool worse economically than 11overpool? Is it because of larvae timings?
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
September 24 2011 15:35 GMT
#22
Good thread ^^ well written, I understand everything you say even though your english is not perfect ^^ it is good enough. Nice guide!
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Reptilia
Profile Joined June 2010
Chile913 Posts
September 24 2011 18:04 GMT
#23
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
September 24 2011 18:06 GMT
#24
On September 25 2011 03:04 Reptilia wrote:
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!


We zergs have a natural feeling of wanting to help. There is a reason we are called the swarm! We hear a plea, we help each other with guides, comments, etc.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
September 24 2011 20:33 GMT
#25
On September 25 2011 03:06 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 03:04 Reptilia wrote:
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!


We zergs have a natural feeling of wanting to help. There is a reason we are called the swarm! We hear a plea, we help each other with guides, comments, etc.


I'm curious to see your feedback about this build, Blade, as your other threads have been very helpful to my ZvT and ZvP.

I've played around with it a bit. The push is definitely not going to do any damage against a T who is gearing up for an early timing, but imagine the roaches would help defensively in that sort of situation. My only mains concern is that 15 Hatch being so common, many Ts will see a pool first build and plan to bunker preemptively. In that case the only damage you are likely to do is sniping a couple of depots outside of the bunker range, but that hardly seems worth the sacrifice in econ. That said, GM Terrans don't see it coming I doubt my mid-masters opponents will.
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
September 24 2011 20:49 GMT
#26
This is GOLD thank you SO MUCH for sharing, will definitely try all your strats
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
kilergrunt
Profile Joined July 2011
United States263 Posts
September 24 2011 20:52 GMT
#27
I was doubtful of your zvt at first, but I just tried it against a friend and he did not know how to respond. It takes advantage of the zergs best abilities. Thanks for the strat. And one small tip for your English, you are normally supposed to put a space after periods to start a new sentence.
Select | iNkA | Tyler | Huk | Idra | Polt | NaNiwa | PuMa | Spanishiwa | DeMusliM | Slush
DW-Unrec
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
492 Posts
September 24 2011 22:01 GMT
#28
This strategy is invalid.

Works only if you play vs someone that doesnt scout. If he sees the roaches its game over. 1 marauder + 2 bunkers its gg.

Considering most diamonds~grand masters scout the opponent. Hellions also are good scouts, the "2 lings early deny any scouting" is invalid. 1 minute later 2~4 hellions are at your ramp ready to roast and scout.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
September 24 2011 22:39 GMT
#29
Wow, can't wait to download the replays tomorrow
Paperplane
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands1823 Posts
September 24 2011 22:52 GMT
#30
Thanks for the guide! Gonna try some of your tactics : )
ManiacTheZealot
Profile Joined December 2009
United States490 Posts
September 24 2011 23:54 GMT
#31
On September 25 2011 07:01 DW-Unrec wrote:
This strategy is invalid.

Works only if you play vs someone that doesnt scout. If he sees the roaches its game over. 1 marauder + 2 bunkers its gg.

Considering most diamonds~grand masters scout the opponent. Hellions also are good scouts, the "2 lings early deny any scouting" is invalid. 1 minute later 2~4 hellions are at your ramp ready to roast and scout.


I somewhat agree with this vs terran. Hellions won't be there in time but if the terran gets an scv near your natural at around 3 minutes and doesn't see an expansion that is going to be enough information for him if he's smart. And it's not really hard to get another scv out there against slow zerglings.

I did like it against protoss though. Protoss standard builds are all very weak to it and they need to change their build a lot to react to it. That really takes control of the game for the zerg and I like that. Much like 7 pooling into a macro game on a forge fast expand map. I think this is a good build for xel'naga caverns or any other map with a wide open natural where forge fast expand isn't easy to do.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
September 25 2011 00:34 GMT
#32
looks solid. I love ur late game hahaha, 狗B ftw!!
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 01:16 GMT
#33
On September 25 2011 07:01 DW-Unrec wrote:
This strategy is invalid.

Works only if you play vs someone that doesnt scout. If he sees the roaches its game over. 1 marauder + 2 bunkers its gg.

Considering most diamonds~grand masters scout the opponent. Hellions also are good scouts, the "2 lings early deny any scouting" is invalid. 1 minute later 2~4 hellions are at your ramp ready to roast and scout.


I've pointed out that the 7 roach strat is not suitable at a big map,because terran player will scout and have enough time to react.But in the short-distance map,7 roach is really quick(4:55).The main purpose is to scout terran's tech through pushing,not to rush and win the game,which also makes you safe to expand your natural.If he goes for marauder,it's ok.You can just stay in his natural and delay his expansion.Back to your home,you can drone safely and upgrade speedlings or whatever.You can estimate the combination of his amry by pushing.But he is blind,he don't know whether you'll keeping pushing or you've throw down your second and drone hard.Some 4 raxes is very hard to handle though,you should go for speedlings and banelings.After the 1.40,i believe most terran will go for hellions,right?
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 01:42 GMT
#34
On September 25 2011 09:34 evanthebouncy! wrote:
looks solid. I love ur late game hahaha, 狗B ftw!!


You know what"狗B“mean?It's a "F" word in chinese,hah
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
FluXen
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada210 Posts
September 25 2011 01:44 GMT
#35
Isnt the 7 roach opening killing a lot of eco, that if they went FE and walled off could put you severly behind in the early game and if they held the attack off
"Rise and Rise Again till Lamb become Lion"-Robin Hood
World_Ender
Profile Joined March 2011
China40 Posts
September 25 2011 02:06 GMT
#36
On September 25 2011 03:06 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 03:04 Reptilia wrote:
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!


We zergs have a natural feeling of wanting to help. There is a reason we are called the swarm! We hear a plea, we help each other with guides, comments, etc.


Hahah. This is true! FOR THE SWARM!

Also, to refer to a few other posts by people... China's SC2 community is growing by leaps and bounds... I've lived here for half a year and already gone to a few minor tournaments, with cash prizes, filled with loads of chinese players... They still aren't on the level of Korea, though.
When in doubt, Google it
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
September 25 2011 02:09 GMT
#37
On September 25 2011 03:04 Reptilia wrote:
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!


you should check out the help me thread its the best protoss resource out there

On topic:

Cool looking guide ill have to watch the ZvP replays so I dont die to this myself on ladder lol .
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 04:15:37
September 25 2011 03:41 GMT
#38
How does this fare against a terran that plays standard? Furthermore, isn't that roach opening just a 7 roach rush? I thought the community consensus was that thats not a good opening against any terran worth his salt.

EDIT: Also, I've been using that ZvZ strategy for a while, and it HAS serves me well. Unfortunately, I ran into a problem when I used it against a 15 hatch opening that just made a bunch of slow lings, built 2 spine crawlers at his natural expansion, and put all his lings and queens on the ramp while he waited for them to finish. There didn't seem to be a whole lot I could do =/
iMMortaL.797
Profile Joined June 2011
United States94 Posts
September 25 2011 03:48 GMT
#39
Im american and i speak chinese :D but im not like chinese american, im like half and im still educating of chinese. 避实击虚= bi shi ji xu = avoid direct attack
Rasun
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States787 Posts
September 25 2011 04:16 GMT
#40
Great guide! ZvZ has always been my toughest match-up, and a few of your openings look really good and I will try them out for sure. Also the Roach push is interesting and something I will try, been having quite a bit of trouble against hellion openings so this should crush them. I am worried about FE builds against Terran on a map like Shakuras where they can wall off at their natural, isn't that givng up too much eco?

P.S. Your English was very good. ^^
"People need to just settle the fuck down!"- Djwheat <3
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 04:32 GMT
#41
On September 25 2011 10:44 FluXen wrote:
Isnt the 7 roach opening killing a lot of eco, that if they went FE and walled off could put you severly behind in the early game and if they held the attack off


yes,i might say a little behind.But If your opponent know exactly you are going to 7 roach him,and you two are at the same level,his economy'll definitely put you behind at the early game.
So this is not a common opening,don't use it too frequent.But in BO5 or BO3,change your opening will surprise your opponent.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#42
On September 25 2011 12:41 Xanbatou wrote:
How does this fare against a terran that plays standard? Furthermore, isn't that roach opening just a 7 roach rush? I thought the community consensus was that thats not a good opening against any terran worth his salt.

EDIT: Also, I've been using that ZvZ strategy for a while, and it HAS serves me well. Unfortunately, I ran into a problem when I used it against a 15 hatch opening that just made a bunch of slow lings, built 2 spine crawlers at his natural expansion, and put all his lings and queens on the ramp while he waited for them to finish. There didn't seem to be a whole lot I could do =/


My 7 roach opening is not a rush.On most of the map,it is not suitable now because the distance is too far.But if you opponent goes for quick hellion or 1RAXCC or others,he'll lose his pace,and win you a great advantage at the early game.We have to change our style while playing,right?If you opponent know exactly you are going to a 15D quick expand,he can aim at this and prepare a particular opening for you.
What i am introducing is not to rush,but how to maximize economy while using this opening.The key to win is not how you micro your 7 roaches in the front but how to develop well at your base.

15 hatch really confused me as well,i'll try more to see if it works.The key is to hide your intention,you pretend to be a normal 13D speedling and block your ramp with 3 lings.May be he'll make more drones and less lings.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 04:50 GMT
#43
On September 25 2011 13:16 Rasun wrote:
Great guide! ZvZ has always been my toughest match-up, and a few of your openings look really good and I will try them out for sure. Also the Roach push is interesting and something I will try, been having quite a bit of trouble against hellion openings so this should crush them. I am worried about FE builds against Terran on a map like Shakuras where they can wall off at their natural, isn't that givng up too much eco?

P.S. Your English was very good. ^^


Maps like Shakuras are really not suitable for any pushing at the early game,whatever 7 roach or banelings.Try them at the short-distance map or maps terran can't expand their natural safely.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
learsc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Philippines19 Posts
September 25 2011 05:17 GMT
#44
very good I try it
terran imba
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 06:16:16
September 25 2011 06:02 GMT
#45
On September 25 2011 13:45 LXB3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 12:41 Xanbatou wrote:
How does this fare against a terran that plays standard? Furthermore, isn't that roach opening just a 7 roach rush? I thought the community consensus was that thats not a good opening against any terran worth his salt.

EDIT: Also, I've been using that ZvZ strategy for a while, and it HAS serves me well. Unfortunately, I ran into a problem when I used it against a 15 hatch opening that just made a bunch of slow lings, built 2 spine crawlers at his natural expansion, and put all his lings and queens on the ramp while he waited for them to finish. There didn't seem to be a whole lot I could do =/


My 7 roach opening is not a rush.On most of the map,it is not suitable now because the distance is too far.But if you opponent goes for quick hellion or 1RAXCC or others,he'll lose his pace,and win you a great advantage at the early game.We have to change our style while playing,right?If you opponent know exactly you are going to a 15D quick expand,he can aim at this and prepare a particular opening for you.
What i am introducing is not to rush,but how to maximize economy while using this opening.The key to win is not how you micro your 7 roaches in the front but how to develop well at your base.

15 hatch really confused me as well,i'll try more to see if it works.The key is to hide your intention,you pretend to be a normal 13D speedling and block your ramp with 3 lings.May be he'll make more drones and less lings.


Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was asking is how this is different from the 7RR build posted on liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7_Roach_Rush_/_Expand_/_Lair
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 25 2011 07:14 GMT
#46
On September 25 2011 15:02 Xanbatou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 13:45 LXB3 wrote:
On September 25 2011 12:41 Xanbatou wrote:
How does this fare against a terran that plays standard? Furthermore, isn't that roach opening just a 7 roach rush? I thought the community consensus was that thats not a good opening against any terran worth his salt.

EDIT: Also, I've been using that ZvZ strategy for a while, and it HAS serves me well. Unfortunately, I ran into a problem when I used it against a 15 hatch opening that just made a bunch of slow lings, built 2 spine crawlers at his natural expansion, and put all his lings and queens on the ramp while he waited for them to finish. There didn't seem to be a whole lot I could do =/


My 7 roach opening is not a rush.On most of the map,it is not suitable now because the distance is too far.But if you opponent goes for quick hellion or 1RAXCC or others,he'll lose his pace,and win you a great advantage at the early game.We have to change our style while playing,right?If you opponent know exactly you are going to a 15D quick expand,he can aim at this and prepare a particular opening for you.
What i am introducing is not to rush,but how to maximize economy while using this opening.The key to win is not how you micro your 7 roaches in the front but how to develop well at your base.

15 hatch really confused me as well,i'll try more to see if it works.The key is to hide your intention,you pretend to be a normal 13D speedling and block your ramp with 3 lings.May be he'll make more drones and less lings.


Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was asking is how this is different from the 7RR build posted on liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7_Roach_Rush_/_Expand_/_Lair


Oh.It's the same thing what i want to share,no difference.But I think my detail of this strategy is worth sharing(like the push timing(4:55), overlord fyling path and spreading of creep),so i update my rep.Every detail at the early game is summed up by hundreds of games i've played and i had a good win ratio actually.If you can handle every single detail well,i think you'll find it much easier to play.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
September 25 2011 08:30 GMT
#47
I'm having a bunch of trouble with ZvZ recently, so I'll definitely try out your build - if nothing else, trying more stuff will help understanding. As for the rest, well, 7roach's worked well for me as a 2v2 rush, so maybe it'll work well for me as a 1v1 timing/stall tactic! Watching the replays now, but the theory's solid so I'm a happy platypus.
Clink
Profile Joined September 2010
10 Posts
September 25 2011 12:58 GMT
#48
On September 25 2011 07:01 DW-Unrec wrote:
This strategy is invalid.

Works only if you play vs someone that doesnt scout. If he sees the roaches its game over. 1 marauder + 2 bunkers its gg.

Considering most diamonds~grand masters scout the opponent. Hellions also are good scouts, the "2 lings early deny any scouting" is invalid. 1 minute later 2~4 hellions are at your ramp ready to roast and scout.


I'm not aggree. If the terran make marau and bunker. You gain a advantage. You forced him to retreat in this base and, you delay much possible him natural when you're droning. Just be carefull at banshee.

Nimbl3
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia49 Posts
September 25 2011 13:43 GMT
#49
very nice guide. i watched the replays and it has opened my strat book to a new page, definetly going to try some of these strats next few games :D

Thanks and keep it up
Dream as if you will live for ever, Live as if you would die today
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
September 25 2011 16:38 GMT
#50
哥你有加战队吗?这帖很给力,我会好好读的。

或者有写中文版的吗?

(guys sorry for typing Chinese, but I cannot help! rarely can see posts written from a Chinese)
No Pain No Gain
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
September 25 2011 18:38 GMT
#51
On September 25 2011 16:14 LXB3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 15:02 Xanbatou wrote:
On September 25 2011 13:45 LXB3 wrote:
On September 25 2011 12:41 Xanbatou wrote:
How does this fare against a terran that plays standard? Furthermore, isn't that roach opening just a 7 roach rush? I thought the community consensus was that thats not a good opening against any terran worth his salt.

EDIT: Also, I've been using that ZvZ strategy for a while, and it HAS serves me well. Unfortunately, I ran into a problem when I used it against a 15 hatch opening that just made a bunch of slow lings, built 2 spine crawlers at his natural expansion, and put all his lings and queens on the ramp while he waited for them to finish. There didn't seem to be a whole lot I could do =/


My 7 roach opening is not a rush.On most of the map,it is not suitable now because the distance is too far.But if you opponent goes for quick hellion or 1RAXCC or others,he'll lose his pace,and win you a great advantage at the early game.We have to change our style while playing,right?If you opponent know exactly you are going to a 15D quick expand,he can aim at this and prepare a particular opening for you.
What i am introducing is not to rush,but how to maximize economy while using this opening.The key to win is not how you micro your 7 roaches in the front but how to develop well at your base.

15 hatch really confused me as well,i'll try more to see if it works.The key is to hide your intention,you pretend to be a normal 13D speedling and block your ramp with 3 lings.May be he'll make more drones and less lings.


Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was asking is how this is different from the 7RR build posted on liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7_Roach_Rush_/_Expand_/_Lair


Oh.It's the same thing what i want to share,no difference.But I think my detail of this strategy is worth sharing(like the push timing(4:55), overlord fyling path and spreading of creep),so i update my rep.Every detail at the early game is summed up by hundreds of games i've played and i had a good win ratio actually.If you can handle every single detail well,i think you'll find it much easier to play.

Actually it has a few differences: later roaches and the 4 additional lings. It is harder to do damage with it, but it a bit less obvious with the 4 lings, since you can chase off scouts better and at least show some lings compared to the 7RR.
I have to say it feels very fluent and well timed; I will definately give it a try.
iNViCiOUZ
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany364 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 20:27:18
September 25 2011 20:16 GMT
#52
Wow I just watched your ZvZ "throwing eggs mass infestor" I was sooo impressed!

103 workers.. wtf :D
Also the nydus using was so nice!

There was a thread here on Tl about the 7 Roach Rush into expand and everybody said that its not a strategy working on higher levels. nice to see you using it with success.
Moldwood
Profile Joined April 2011
United States280 Posts
September 25 2011 20:25 GMT
#53
always interesting to see freakin CHINESE SPEAKING PEOPLE forming more coherent sentences than most americans can manage. Very good english sir. and a good post.
"You drone I void ray I win" --oGsMC
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
September 25 2011 20:38 GMT
#54
Wow..very well written guide, especially for someone whose English isn't his first language. I can see a lot of effort put into this. Thanks a lot man! :D
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
September 25 2011 21:50 GMT
#55
On September 26 2011 05:25 Moldwood wrote:
It's always interesting to see freaking CHINESE SPEAKING PEOPLE forming more coherent sentences than most Americans can manage. Very good English sir, and a good post.

This is TL, not English class - there are plenty of grammatical/spelling errors in the average post, and that's okay. Consider how much of a dicktool I look like right now because of the above corrections - don't be that guy, even in broad terms.

Anyway, I tried out the ZvZ build, and it's awesome. Excellent timing attack that makes the economic followup really hard to deal with. I tend to transition out of it with a fast expansion into roaches, but there are plenty of other options. I also prefer to keep my lings back until speed finishes, to make sure I exploit that window with maximum possible numbers. I've also seen the replays of the rest of it, and I like it a lot, though the mass spine/muta ZvT isn't really my style, and neither is main trading as a game plan. Still, I'll definitely be doing 7roach pressure more often, and fast gas 11overpool is probably going to be my go-to ZvZ build.
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 26 2011 11:50 GMT
#56
On September 26 2011 01:38 lhr0909 wrote:
哥你有加战队吗?这帖很给力,我会好好读的。

或者有写中文版的吗?

(guys sorry for typing Chinese, but I cannot help! rarely can see posts written from a Chinese)



你有QQ吗?PM告诉我吧
总之其他的PM跟我说吧
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
September 26 2011 12:00 GMT
#57
Great job man, your English is better than mine! great contribution, keep it up
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 26 2011 12:01 GMT
#58
On September 26 2011 06:50 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 05:25 Moldwood wrote:
It's always interesting to see freaking CHINESE SPEAKING PEOPLE forming more coherent sentences than most Americans can manage. Very good English sir, and a good post.

This is TL, not English class - there are plenty of grammatical/spelling errors in the average post, and that's okay. Consider how much of a dicktool I look like right now because of the above corrections - don't be that guy, even in broad terms.

Anyway, I tried out the ZvZ build, and it's awesome. Excellent timing attack that makes the economic followup really hard to deal with. I tend to transition out of it with a fast expansion into roaches, but there are plenty of other options. I also prefer to keep my lings back until speed finishes, to make sure I exploit that window with maximum possible numbers. I've also seen the replays of the rest of it, and I like it a lot, though the mass spine/muta ZvT isn't really my style, and neither is main trading as a game plan. Still, I'll definitely be doing 7roach pressure more often, and fast gas 11overpool is probably going to be my go-to ZvZ build.



Learning English Time,any one can explain what does"exploit that window" mean?
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
September 26 2011 12:04 GMT
#59
Wow, very nice guide. Your ZvT sounds solid!

Bora Pain minha porra!
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
September 26 2011 12:04 GMT
#60
On September 25 2011 10:42 LXB3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:34 evanthebouncy! wrote:
looks solid. I love ur late game hahaha, 狗B ftw!!


You know what"狗B“mean?It's a "F" word in chinese,hah

I love some of the BMs in the replays LOL
it was quite amazing to see how chinese BM, makes the english BM looks so weak in comparison
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
KaienFEMC
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada127 Posts
September 26 2011 12:08 GMT
#61
I believe he meant the timing before opponent's speed upgrade finishes while he has his own speed lings out on the field.
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
September 26 2011 12:11 GMT
#62
On September 26 2011 21:08 KaienFEMC wrote:
I believe he meant the timing before opponent's speed upgrade finishes while he has his own speed lings out on the field.

ICIC ,thank you
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
CeRipH
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom23 Posts
September 26 2011 13:03 GMT
#63
On September 25 2011 03:04 Reptilia wrote:
why are there so many cool zerg players that provide awesome content to community but not Terran/protoss!!


I always wonder this, although as I play zerg myself I don't really question it too much

It does seem like zerg players like to help eachother more though from what I've seen.

As for the OP: great post, some things I definitely will take on board.
"Does the brain control you or are you controlling the brain? I don't know if I'm in charge of mine." - Karl Pilkington (a man with a head like a f*cking orange)
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
September 26 2011 14:13 GMT
#64
OK I played around with doing this pretty much exclusively vs Terrans this weekend and at my level (1.1k Masters) I've found it to be quite effective.

I even ended up playing the same Terran 3 times in a row on ladder and beat him all 3 times with it. By the 3rd MU he knew it was coming, bunkered and had mauraders but using OL vision I still sniped 2 supply depots, several repairing SCVs and then just camped his natural while expanding and droning like crazy. While he held the push off, he came out behind in the end.

There was not a single game I played where I came out behind from doing it.
DuncanIdaho
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States465 Posts
September 26 2011 15:39 GMT
#65
Nice thread!
I was curious about the name of the style of play you gave yourself, "避实击虚", and had to look it up. So according to Google's translation, 避实击虚 translates to english as "to avoid virtual strike". :p

Anyone have a way to explain this translation? I'm slightly confused, but it seems to be meaning a passive style? Though I'm not certain.
The spice must flow... Grammar lesson: "than" is used for quantity comparisons, "then" is used for chronological statements. The next forum user who says, "I'd do such and such, THAN I'd do such and such else," is gonna make me cry...
targ
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Malaysia445 Posts
September 26 2011 16:49 GMT
#66
"避实击虚" means you avoid the strong points of the enemy, instead attacking the weak spots. Avoiding a head-on clash in other words.
http://billyfoong.blogspot.com/ my other opinions are here
rawrss
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada29 Posts
September 26 2011 18:43 GMT
#67
For vs. T, what's the fastest time hellions (not BF upgraded) could enter a Zerg base? Would they be able to get hellions into your base by the 4:50~4:55mark and harass before the roaches pop?

Is there a forum thread that has this?
Marine = x.xx
Marauder = x.xx
Hellion = x.xx
Banshee = x.xx
etc. etc.

(sorry, newer player here)


DJWheat: "Wwwwhat?" Day9: "Did idrA just leave another won game?" - MLG Columbus 2011
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
September 26 2011 21:46 GMT
#68
On September 27 2011 03:43 rawrss wrote:
For vs. T, what's the fastest time hellions (not BF upgraded) could enter a Zerg base? Would they be able to get hellions into your base by the 4:50~4:55mark and harass before the roaches pop?

Is there a forum thread that has this?
Marine = x.xx
Marauder = x.xx
Hellion = x.xx
Banshee = x.xx
etc. etc.

(sorry, newer player here)




I can only speak from experience and say I have never had hellions AT my base at that time. Rushing for hellions usually results in them popping at a similar time to when your roaches pop. This means you will typically meet them on the way to T's base (usually close to his than yours). Strangely every T that I've encountered then pulls them back to defend instead of trying to get some drone harass in. Of course they do absolutely nothing to roaches though.
dejeseAI
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Mexico32 Posts
September 27 2011 05:31 GMT
#69
Thank you very much for taking the time to write down these strategies, i really feel zerg should not be a passive race but its hard to take control of the field withouth risking much, your strategies help us find the appropiate way to control de battlefield.

0sd9sz8sz7sz6su5su
Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
September 27 2011 05:48 GMT
#70
I really like early roaches in ZvT, but I feel you really can 15 hatch into roaches and come out in a better situation economically and still be safe versus any terran 1 base. Roaches come out in time to deal with any terran 1 base tech/push (besides 2 rax, obviously) and really gives you safety to take a quick third (if the terran is early expanding) off only 5 or so larvae worth of roaches so you're not vulnerable to a lot of the timings someone designed to kill roaching zvt players.

Just a though, but I think it's pretty strong. Sheth does it a lot, and even though his zvt isn't the best, I think his opening is really good.
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
CreepyNA
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
October 02 2011 14:15 GMT
#71
Thx very much for the strategies It has helped to improve my play alot! I no longer fear ZvZ xD And have a nice build for smaller maps zvp and zvt. Also, I'm just wondering if you will be updating this and put some more info under the other replays at the end?
Haters gonna hate
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
October 02 2011 15:00 GMT
#72
Sweet guide, thanks a lot
citizenleaf
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States14 Posts
October 02 2011 15:31 GMT
#73
Very good guide =D. Been playing this opening in ZvT and ZvP to great success, rarely does my opponent think i can recover from what most of them call "noob all in". They are always surprised to see my third finishing as they finally get into a comfortable position to take their natural. (high plat-mid diamond level) Again great guide and keep it up man =D
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
KenZo-
Profile Joined December 2010
Faroe Islands190 Posts
October 02 2011 22:19 GMT
#74
LXB3, can u share how a "foreigner" easiest could buy play time on the CN server ?

Thanks for the nice write up.

Keep it up.
ePAttack
Profile Joined September 2010
United States112 Posts
October 02 2011 22:22 GMT
#75
Watching replays now !

Thanks for the guide !
Sapp
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland173 Posts
October 05 2011 15:11 GMT
#76
agresive... agresive is good ^^'
Quote? O.o?
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
January 07 2012 12:30 GMT
#77
updated on 2012.1.7~ I'll continue to add some pictures.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
Coledash
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland23 Posts
January 15 2012 14:19 GMT
#78
Thanks for the awesome guide! Keep working on it please
z_VirutosoOOv
Profile Joined January 2012
2 Posts
January 15 2012 16:33 GMT
#79
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D
Hello is there anybody in there??
nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
January 15 2012 19:00 GMT
#80
On January 16 2012 01:33 z_VirutosoOOv wrote:
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D


Savior?
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
January 15 2012 20:29 GMT
#81
good stuff bro keep it up!
Tacritan
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1 Post
January 15 2012 20:52 GMT
#82
Awesome guides!
Krayze
Profile Joined May 2009
United States213 Posts
January 15 2012 21:00 GMT
#83
Your play is simple, intuitive, and effective. I designed my builds based on your philosophy and have had great success with the comfortable play-style. Now reading about your aggressive ZvP style is mind blowing. You make it look so easy, and maybe you found a way to make the matchup easy. I will surely try to focus on scouting my opponent and responding with more banelings and drops when necessary.

I do have a couple questions that you could elaborate on. You mention that mutas for "imba" in zvp and mass muta is the only way to win lategame. Now with the aggressive style, what is your transition if protoss can hold off your drops and attacks? What does your late game army look like, how many bases, and about how many drones do you have?

Another question I have is if they continue to pump voidrays or voidray + phoenix off two base for a long time. I am talking about 5+ voidrays or voidray with 8+ phoenix or something big like that. Do you make hydras? infestors? corruptors? mutas? I am curious!

Thank you for continuing this guide, it is a great read and very helpful. You inspire me to play hard and creative!
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
January 15 2012 21:25 GMT
#84
On January 16 2012 04:00 nicke10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 01:33 z_VirutosoOOv wrote:
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D


Savior?

One of the best bw players of all time.

Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
January 16 2012 14:37 GMT
#85
On January 16 2012 06:25 NexUmbra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 04:00 nicke10 wrote:
On January 16 2012 01:33 z_VirutosoOOv wrote:
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D


Savior?

One of the best bw players of all time.



What is so special with his play? Lots of counter attacks what I understand. Anyone in SC2 who plays similar?
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
scMellOw
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 15:17:37
January 16 2012 15:17 GMT
#86
On January 16 2012 23:37 nicke10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 06:25 NexUmbra wrote:
On January 16 2012 04:00 nicke10 wrote:
On January 16 2012 01:33 z_VirutosoOOv wrote:
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D


Savior?

One of the best bw players of all time.



What is so special with his play? Lots of counter attacks what I understand. Anyone in SC2 who plays similar?



clueless about savior i guess


NesTea was said to have somewhat a similar style tho I don't really agree with that but oh well.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu
nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
January 16 2012 15:37 GMT
#87
On January 17 2012 00:17 scMellOw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 23:37 nicke10 wrote:
On January 16 2012 06:25 NexUmbra wrote:
On January 16 2012 04:00 nicke10 wrote:
On January 16 2012 01:33 z_VirutosoOOv wrote:
nice guide, thx for it, also savior's playstyle is awesome - learn it every1 :D


Savior?

One of the best bw players of all time.



What is so special with his play? Lots of counter attacks what I understand. Anyone in SC2 who plays similar?



clueless about savior i guess


NesTea was said to have somewhat a similar style tho I don't really agree with that but oh well.


I haven't followed the BW scene. I only know the names and who was dominate etc.
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
CreepyNA
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
January 16 2012 20:43 GMT
#88
On January 07 2012 21:30 LXB3 wrote:
updated on 2012.1.7~ I'll continue to add some pictures.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Been looking for this thread for months! I was so sad when I lost it But, so happy now When I first tried to use this build, I was new to the game, but it helped me quite a bit even thou I couldnt use it properly. Now, I'm masters zerg and am so happy to find this again! Can't wait to relearn these builds and the new ones
Haters gonna hate
LXB3
Profile Joined August 2011
China23 Posts
January 19 2012 04:02 GMT
#89
On January 16 2012 06:00 Krayze wrote:
Your play is simple, intuitive, and effective. I designed my builds based on your philosophy and have had great success with the comfortable play-style. Now reading about your aggressive ZvP style is mind blowing. You make it look so easy, and maybe you found a way to make the matchup easy. I will surely try to focus on scouting my opponent and responding with more banelings and drops when necessary.

I do have a couple questions that you could elaborate on. You mention that mutas for "imba" in zvp and mass muta is the only way to win lategame. Now with the aggressive style, what is your transition if protoss can hold off your drops and attacks? What does your late game army look like, how many bases, and about how many drones do you have?

Another question I have is if they continue to pump voidrays or voidray + phoenix off two base for a long time. I am talking about 5+ voidrays or voidray with 8+ phoenix or something big like that. Do you make hydras? infestors? corruptors? mutas? I am curious!

Thank you for continuing this guide, it is a great read and very helpful. You inspire me to play hard and creative!



Your first question, it depends on my opponent's unit combination. My suggustion is "do not play late game with Protoss". To be frank, i don't how to win in the late game when protoss have expanded to his fourth and updated +3 attack and +3 amor. So i invented this play style, the key word"DO not stop attacking". And i want to learn how to beat Protoss in the late game ,i haven't get a satisfied answer yet.

Second question, if he goes for heavy air, i will expand my third and fourth and throw down my Spire.(Before that, you can drop something into his main and natural to have the game pace in your hand and contain his voidray or phonixes and you can expand much easily.) Using corruptors and muta to take the contorl of the air. Hydras is a joke, they can't beat phoenixes. Infestors are very hard to micro, i am not good at it. Maybe a good choose, but personally i won't go for it.
不识情愁枉少年,檐下赐酒结仙缘。情难消受美人恩,仗剑江湖为红颜。
Masonator
Profile Joined March 2012
1 Post
March 31 2012 18:46 GMT
#90
Hello, ni hao!

I am also a Chinese SC2 player, but in the US I just realied that your link to the voidray response video is a duplicate of the prior link, can you please correct this? It is in the section that begins with the following:

2. stargate harassment
One viod-ray or a little bit of phoenixes

Upgrade the speed and the drop at once when the lair is finished.

And then you have to drop everywhere, in his main, in his natural.

replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=248945


this download id ending in 248945 is the same as the one you posted in regards in immortal/sentry. Let me know. Thanks!
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