Hey all i've focused all my efforts on TvT and TvP i feel good in these matchups now but TvZ i've hit a wall.
I'm a Plat Terran on EU beating diamonds now.
Vs zerg who goes 2 hatch infestor builds i am not quite sure what i should be doing i scout it but i dont know how to react properly. Should i try and take a faster 3rd and go for drops? Or just start going ghost and try and hit a timming. But i've faced a few zerg who go ultra with his infestors into broodlords really threw me off in a game but.
My main question is how do i pressure the zerg without risking to loose my entire army because usually i just go for marine tank medevac. And fungals can destroy me, should i just try the same thing but with good emps, or should i snipe and use a viking for spotting.
Usually vs ling bane muta style i just keep macroing taking bases behind marine tank medic pushes and my macro just takes over.
Usually 2-base infestor implies no mutas, so you can make more marauders, which can absorb the fungals much better. Another option is to make banshees, since they can fly in front of the army and either force mutas or hydras.
When I go mass infestor I fear lots of siege tanks. They outrange NP and fungal. If you combine this with either Turrets or ravens it can be very effective. Against mass Infestor they can't pressure you too easily, as they will lose in a strait up fight. Also hellions are surprisingly good against them as they are so fast, and take 3 fungal growths to kill.
Abuse drops. Zerg is relatively immobile when he has infestors running around, compared to Muta Ling Baneling. Scan to identify the infestation pit and prepare accordingly. Zerg will be reluctant to use his first few fungals on small marine forces, especially if you pressure his front while you drop. Essentially you need to kill alot of drones / tech with your drops while playing expanding behind it. He's in no position to take on PF's on third / fourth bases with only lings and infestors. Here's a vod of Hashe vs Destiny, who demonstrates very well on how to play against his style.
Economic play is necessary against this strategy because you will eventually need tanks + ghosts to deal with silly amounts of infestors, and a two base economy can't support that kind of tech.
I also had these problems. I'm a High Diamond NA Terran (would be Masters I think if I laddered more often). I usually go mech, and I've also had a lot of problems with infestors. The best way I have found is just throw a couple of Ghosts into an army to EMP their Infestors. One thing I've noticed about Zergs who build lots of infestors is that they NEVER spread their infestors (sort of like how P's used to be with their High Templar) and so you only need a couple of Ghosts to deal with a lot of Infestors.
My Ideas (high diamond zerg): -use cloaked ghosts for snipe/EMp -send a marauder and marine or a couple of marines to snipe the infestors -I don't recommend banshee or tons of tanks like people above have done. Banshees easy to take down and tanks easy to infestor bomb from underground. -Drops are key. Key. Just pick up and leave if he doesn't have an infestor there. Spread your marines when you drop them to prevent the fungal from doing a ton of damage.
Interesting responses, I played a game there where i saw the infestation pit around 8 min and took a faster 3rd on shattered temple. and went lots more siege tanks and did a slow push.
Not sure if you saw the Game in the GSL code A where Thorizain did the most amazing slow push on Terminus RE. It worked very nicely i got rid of alot of marines and replaced then with helions because i was afraid of speedling run bys. I am still not 100% sure if this was the right thing to do but i like to play as passivly and as macro orientated as i can i think i got kind of lucky with the timming i moved out with though because he was trying to take his 4th and couldnt but if he got that and i was starting my push he probably could have won the game. But it seems going more mech heavy works well for me, but i worry about mass muta switches. could be very scary but most zerg seem to want to rush to brood lord infestor of 3 base trying to get a 4th.
On August 12 2011 10:36 MarkBolinder3 wrote: Ghosts can usually get like 6 infestors on one emp throw. Little op IMO but I am a Zerg player
Snipe is better than emp most times imo. Snipe does 45 damage ignoring armor and infestors have 90hp. 4 cloaked ghosts is all in takes to kill all infestors a lot of times. A ghost can snipe 8 times with full energy.
On August 12 2011 10:36 MarkBolinder3 wrote: Ghosts can usually get like 6 infestors on one emp throw. Little op IMO but I am a Zerg player
You could always split up your Infestors. I remember when P's started doing that with their High Templar, suddenly they became way more powerful because one EMP didn't knock out the energy of all their High Templar. It really isn't too difficult, it just requires a little bit of planning (and it's especially easy if the engagement is a more defensive engage for the Zerg as then splitting Infestors should just be something that you've already done.
Dude ... Ghosts Few Emps and all Infestor become useless Since ghosts are invisible and infestors usually clump up its pretty easy So Marine tank medic ghost works pretty good especially cause ghosts are also darn good against mutas if zerg decides to tech switch
On August 12 2011 10:36 MarkBolinder3 wrote: Ghosts can usually get like 6 infestors on one emp throw. Little op IMO but I am a Zerg player
Snipe is better than emp most times imo. Snipe does 45 damage ignoring armor and infestors have 90hp. 4 cloaked ghosts is all in takes to kill all infestors a lot of times. A ghost can snipe 8 times with full energy.
It takes 3 snipes to kill an infestor cuz they regen one HP as soon as the first snipe hits them.
Generally EMP is better for a clump, but yeah to pick off one or two infestors snipe is great.
On August 12 2011 10:36 MarkBolinder3 wrote: Ghosts can usually get like 6 infestors on one emp throw. Little op IMO but I am a Zerg player
Snipe is better than emp most times imo. Snipe does 45 damage ignoring armor and infestors have 90hp. 4 cloaked ghosts is all in takes to kill all infestors a lot of times. A ghost can snipe 8 times with full energy.
It takes 3 snipes to kill an infestor cuz they regen one HP as soon as the first snipe hits them.
Generally EMP is better for a clump, but yeah to pick off one or two infestors snipe is great.
Agree with this 100%. Especially since a fast player will immediately uncloak your Ghosts with Fungal the moment you start Sniping a clump of Infestors one at a time.
My best results vs Ling-Infestor is by having a large Ghost count (6+) with Cloak. They also kill everything in the air with Snipe, so you won't get blind-sided by a Broodlord transition.
Mass Infestor Zerg needs a lot of gas (if you're aggressive enough to pick off Infestors so he has to build more), so you have to control his number of bases. Ling/Infestor relies on a faster Hive for upgrade #3 and BL/Ultra to last late into the game, so it's almost more gas intensive than Ling/Bling/Muta.
On August 12 2011 10:36 MarkBolinder3 wrote: Ghosts can usually get like 6 infestors on one emp throw. Little op IMO but I am a Zerg player
Snipe is better than emp most times imo. Snipe does 45 damage ignoring armor and infestors have 90hp. 4 cloaked ghosts is all in takes to kill all infestors a lot of times. A ghost can snipe 8 times with full energy.
It takes 3 snipes to kill an infestor cuz they regen one HP as soon as the first snipe hits them.
Generally EMP is better for a clump, but yeah to pick off one or two infestors snipe is great.
Wouldn't Snipe + Snipe + queue normal attack work? I think that whole queue would take about 2s to go through fully.
I think in this case you should respond by getting turtley, get a 3rd up, and max on an ideal unit composition. Your main for of harass imo should be blue flame drops/runbys, because they are cheap and have more game-change potential than the standard marine drops. 1 big shot kills 25 drones and you're sitting with a VBG on your face.
I say play defensively because infestors don't have great offensive potential until BLs and ultras. So if u have time and stay even on bases and macro = or better to the Z, you win because your army is more cost effective (assuming equally skilled unit control). So if you can get to the dream composition of marine tank thor with BFhellion sprinkled in and then 10ish ghosts, with about 20 supply left for dealing with their chosen hive tech, you win easily. Watch ThorZain vs CatZ on shakuras. ThorZain plays like a baller.
I usually go drops with the addition of cloaked ghosts to sneak into bases and emp infestors, while my main army waits outside tehir base. Basically marine medivac tank with ghosts. Make sure to slow push on creep, and not let your tanks seem vulnerable :D
Going Ultra/Infestor gets demolished by large tank numbers. Keep your marines safe and as the Ultras claw away at the tanks focus down Infestors and finish the Ultras with your marines.
Against Brood Lords, keep making Marine/Tank but secure a good position and spread out your tanks. Then get fleets of Vikings, stay in range of the tanks in order to not get fungalled, and simply do whatever you can with them to kill the Brood Lords. Deny economy with drops around the map until the Zerg simply doesn't have the minerals and gas to keep producing expensive units like the Infestors and Brood Lords.
The best way to beat infestors is to have good micro and go mass marines. Do a 2rax opening, don't bunker rush and don't apply pressure with 5 marines, just save up some marines until like 10, then push up his ramp and try and snipe whatever defense he has. If he has lings back off (no way they are speed if he hatched first especially going infestors).
Once you've caused some damage you should have your expo up. Double engineer bay immediately and start +1/+1 and get a factory. (Before or after is up to you) you want to get medivacs asap. Throw down as many rax as you can afford (5-6) get 2 techlabs and leave the rest bald. Once medivacs are out load up a drop ship and make a reactor on a rax and your starport. Start your 3rd as well (this requires economical management on your part). Even though he'll have infestors by time you get there, you'll either do 1 of 3 things, you can retreat doing no damage and showing oyu have medivacs. You can attack and lose everything, or you can spread drop. Basically you run over the base dropping the marines instead of dropping them in the corner of the main. Once you lose that drop you should have your 3rd up and +2 +2 started. You'll want to get another starport and spend a lot of minerals on rax. get 3 medivacs full of marines and spread drop his main with 2 and spread drop his natural. Don't expand right away but keep up drop harass and attacking his front with always having your marines spread. Once you see him tech to Hive, get about 12 vikings. He has 3 options, mass infestors, broodlords, or ultralisk. If he gets ultralisk your marines will be enough, if he gets infestors you just continue with what you are doing and if he goes broodlords you've hard-countered him.
THis all requires a lot of APM and micro skills so if you want to know how to beat it thats how you beat it.
EPT
