Early Pool Counters PvZ [D][Q] - Page 2

WaKai

Canada88 Posts

August 12 2011 19:10 GMT

#21

On August 13 2011 02:46 pandaBee wrote:
why is everyone only talking about 6 pool? there is a reason why i named this thread "Early Pool Counters" and not "6 pool counters". but anyways yes i'd like it if no low - level players commentated on this , as players in lower leagues do not face against optimized builds

reason why the pool timing is important is i find that each different pool timing requires a different respone of sort... because there is economical early pools and all-in early pools which require different responses

i've also run into a pretty tricky version of a 6 pool on 2-p maps where the player uses one drone to delay you from walling off and then sends the rest of their drones + the 6 lings to really screw you over. this kind of build has an amazing amount of flexibility.

i've even ran into zergs that use a later pool (usually 8-10) to try and make you overreact, wall yourself in, etc. so that they can expand quickly and drone up (and they are soon ahead in worker count even with constant worker production save the cut to create the walloff at your ramp)

so yeah please don't go thinking that i am only talking about 6 pool. it's not the only early pool build that zerg has in their arsenal

First off, more minds the better. You never know, maybe they can give a creative look on it. They may know LESS but maybe they know something you don't. If they're wrong then you get to see why they are and now not to do it yourself if ever the thought passes. Yes timings are not as crisp in the lower levels, but an early pool is an early pool. Its not very hard to screw up.

Secondly, You didn't read everyone's responses, then you go and say "why is everyone only talking about 6 pool". Please read your WHOLE thread before posting, so i don't have to quote what i said.

thirdly: There aren't "different" responses when not walling off. Every early pool have some sort of deviation from every player and every toss has some sort of style/deviation he/she plays. Naming the different responses is just a waste of time. The only way to really learn the different responses is to practice against early pools.

what you made me quote:

I don't wall off, holds every sort of early pool. This is because your probes can protect your pylon and gw, giving you time to get your zealot out. Once the zealot is out you can have 4-5 probes with him and you should be fine.
here are a couple reps for timings(these are random) i know there are few that hold early pools, just click my name and it will you give you all the reps i've uploaded.

http://drop.sc/24738
http://drop.sc/24737

hipsterdontlie

United States42 Posts

August 12 2011 23:35 GMT

#22

I play toss in 1v1 and in team games I always 12 pool as zerg, so I know a bit from both perspectives.

From Zerg's perspective:
6/7 pool: I need to do damage, and therefore will try to pick off pylon so no zealots can be made so my reinforcements can kill the probes
8/9/10 (gasless) pool: I need to buy time and kill the wall so when the rest of my lings arrive I can outright kill you.
10/11/12 pool speed: I need to buy time for zergling speed, then I'll run around your base and you'll be annoyed. If I don't kill you, I'll go baneling, roach, or I'll expand.
Overpool: I'm going to make you throw down useless architecture while I drone up and kill you later with roaches or even higher tech units.

From Protoss Perspective:
The most cost effective wall-in is the ZeNEXPuzzle wall-in, where a pylon and gateway are put on opposite sides of the ramp so a zealot can block the entire ramp. This is also beneficial because the zealot can attack lings killing the pylon without much movement, and only allows upwards of 3 lings attacking the gateway, which should not die until your next zealot comes out. A six pool may hit before your gateway is done, so pull some probes and plug up the hole until your zealot comes out.
If you are really scared of baneling busts and choose to do the traditional gate/core wall-in, make sure that you have MORE THAN ONE PYLON POWERING YOUR GATEWAY. I cannot tell you how many time I or someone I 12 pool have gg'd simply because I sniped the pylon powering the gateway.

tl;dr - different pool timings have different goals and thus need different responses. ZeNEXPuzzle wall-in is recommended.

JonnyLaw

United States3482 Posts

August 12 2011 23:49 GMT

#23

This has been discussed over and over and over and over again.

You do not need to react to anything later than a 6 pool with tech deviation of any sort.

Do your normal gate/gas/cyber otherwise you can easily fall behind in tech. Do not take your second gas immediately. If it's a 7 or 8 pool you'll want to go gate/gas/zealot/cyber with chrono on zealot.

As the lings approach your base, drop a pylon in the gap and rally the zealot inside your base. Once the zealot finishes, pull 4-5 probes and cancel the pylon. Use the zealot + probes to force the lings back. If they engage, micro probes back to mining and pull more off to fight as needed. If they're smart they will not engage.

Make a second zealot, get warpgate and a sentry. Now, depending on their build adapt. Keep a probe near the front on the chance they continue to flood lings, take your second gas and keep on sentry production. Go 3gate expo with pressure or 4gate, or 1gate expo whichever you prefer.

If you allowed them to delay your warp gate or macro at all I would advise against 4gate.

This is the optimal response. It's not difficult and you're light years ahead of them as long as you pressure soon. Do not let them redrone fully.

Staboteur

Canada1873 Posts

August 13 2011 03:40 GMT

#24

Zerg player here, experimenting with early pools and pondering what P could do to stop them, I came up with this:

What if you were to, upon scouting the early pool of a probably-not-all-in variant, solid wall off and rally your first zealot on the outside of the wall. You'd then be able to use that zealot to engage any zerglings that attack the wall, while keeping the zealot pressed against the wall himself to avoid a full surround. What this should do is buy you time, either through the micro battle of him trying to surround the single zealot, through the use of the zealot as an effective extension of the hp of your wall, or through the castration of his zergling count reducing the speed at which he can nibble down your wall.

Obviously, I'm not protoss but I feel as though this would be a workable way to leave yourself in a good position to continue playing the game, through taking advantage of the fact that it is a very narrow timing window he must hit, and any reinforcing zerglings will be far, far too late... so you can trade a zealot for a zergling or two and still come out ahead in the long term.

Any protoss willing to try this; I'd be interested to hear the results.

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