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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On June 24 2012 09:05 Lforice wrote:
I have trouble switching my nexus hotkey from 3 to 4, how would you suggest I change it?
I went through this same transition when switching my nexus from 1 to 4, as I realized my 1-3 works best for me for control groups of my army, casters, warp prism, etc.
So what I did was basically play a few AI games where the only thing I hotkeyed was my nexus on 4. And I just played that over and over.
Now, because i'm an apm spamming little whore, when I start the game I put it on 4, then on every number key to the right (so 5-0). Then as I add tech structures/gateways, I overwrite the 5-9 with them. For example when I build my first gateway, I put that on 5-9 so my nexus remains on 4. Then when I add a robo/twilight/forge/stargate/whatever, I put that on 5, then the next different one on 6, and so on.
This allows me to follow the good checklist that we've all come to love. For those who need a refresher:
1. Make workers
2. Spend resources (Units->Gateways->Tech)
3. Look at the minimap
4. Move your army (This should reflect what you see on the minimap and/or timings you're planning on hitting as tech finishes)
5. Repeat!
A good frame for reference is that I checklist 3-5 times a minute. depending on the time in game and how much i need to pay attention to battles/drops. It's easy because this way you can start a #4. Move your army (with 1-3). Make your workers (Nexus on 4), spend your resources (tech units/upgrades first, then gateway units). Then lok at the minimap and you're ready to repeat.
Such a good way to play 
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On June 23 2012 17:38 MutaKingPrime wrote:
Hey TL.
I've recently restarted SC2, and I was a Masters (P obviously) but I haven't played Season 7 nor Season 6.
I really wanna get good again (if I was ever good but anyways) but I feel as though being in Masters league for season 8 I'll be at a major disadvantage.
Should I go on my smurf, attempt to get into Plat-Gold-Diamond ish and try to work my way up or just get buttsecksed by Master leaguers until I get back into the groove of things?
hm.
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On June 24 2012 10:34 MutaKingPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 17:38 MutaKingPrime wrote:
Hey TL.
I've recently restarted SC2, and I was a Masters (P obviously) but I haven't played Season 7 nor Season 6.
I really wanna get good again (if I was ever good but anyways) but I feel as though being in Masters league for season 8 I'll be at a major disadvantage.
Should I go on my smurf, attempt to get into Plat-Gold-Diamond ish and try to work my way up or just get buttsecksed by Master leaguers until I get back into the groove of things? hm.
That is a really freaking good question, I've wondered which method is better myself: take a beating like a boss from wherever you're at or go to a lower league and practice back up. I'm interested to see some answers. The only real thing I guess I would think to be a contributing factor is how much you're actually losing and if you're concerned about your ladder ranking/points and possible demotion.
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On June 24 2012 10:34 MutaKingPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 17:38 MutaKingPrime wrote:
Hey TL.
I've recently restarted SC2, and I was a Masters (P obviously) but I haven't played Season 7 nor Season 6.
I really wanna get good again (if I was ever good but anyways) but I feel as though being in Masters league for season 8 I'll be at a major disadvantage.
Should I go on my smurf, attempt to get into Plat-Gold-Diamond ish and try to work my way up or just get buttsecksed by Master leaguers until I get back into the groove of things? hm.
They both have the same end result. Smurfing will artificially inflate your MMR beyond what Blizz thinks your main account is really at. All in all it simply results in a shinier W/L ratio. At the very least, losing to the masters players will spell out the differences that you need to work on.
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On June 24 2012 10:57 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 10:34 MutaKingPrime wrote:On June 23 2012 17:38 MutaKingPrime wrote:
Hey TL.
I've recently restarted SC2, and I was a Masters (P obviously) but I haven't played Season 7 nor Season 6.
I really wanna get good again (if I was ever good but anyways) but I feel as though being in Masters league for season 8 I'll be at a major disadvantage.
Should I go on my smurf, attempt to get into Plat-Gold-Diamond ish and try to work my way up or just get buttsecksed by Master leaguers until I get back into the groove of things? hm. They both have the same end result. Smurfing will artificially inflate your MMR beyond what Blizz thinks your main account is really at. All in all it simply results in a shinier W/L ratio. At the very least, losing to the masters players will spell out the differences that you need to work on.
Well, I've just been placed into Platinum on my smurf so it wouldn't take that long to get to Masters and it would suck because it would be the same thing..
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On June 24 2012 11:15 MutaKingPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 10:57 Tyrant0 wrote:On June 24 2012 10:34 MutaKingPrime wrote:On June 23 2012 17:38 MutaKingPrime wrote:
Hey TL.
I've recently restarted SC2, and I was a Masters (P obviously) but I haven't played Season 7 nor Season 6.
I really wanna get good again (if I was ever good but anyways) but I feel as though being in Masters league for season 8 I'll be at a major disadvantage.
Should I go on my smurf, attempt to get into Plat-Gold-Diamond ish and try to work my way up or just get buttsecksed by Master leaguers until I get back into the groove of things? hm. They both have the same end result. Smurfing will artificially inflate your MMR beyond what Blizz thinks your main account is really at. All in all it simply results in a shinier W/L ratio. At the very least, losing to the masters players will spell out the differences that you need to work on. Well, I've just been placed into Platinum on my smurf so it wouldn't take that long to get to Masters and it would suck because it would be the same thing..
It'd suck if the feeling of losing and a better W/L is more valuable than replays that give you the solutions to what you need to get better. You're confusing your priorities.
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On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup.
1) Mineral line cannon rush.
These games happen in around 1 in 5 PvPs and make the matchup completely unbearable. Due to the late scout my probe will never have seen their base. My usual response is to put ~8 probes on the pylons (as many as the surface area will allow), cancel my cyber, pull probes off gas, and start a zealot. I have never defended this cheese, and it has cost me dozens of frustrating losses.
If you are unable to stop the 2-3 pylons starting, can the game be won under any circumstances? Do I have to resort to following my opponents 'scouting' probe with a probe of my own as soon as it enters my base? (I have never seen this happen in a pro game so surely this can't be the case?)
I've tried completely ignoring the cannons and starting a nexus elsewhere, but haven't had any success with this either.
2) Proxy 2gate
My scouting pattern checks nearby proxy locations quite thoroughly so I can usually spot this before it's too late. My preferred response is to start a forge and attempt to delay the first zealots until a cannon finishes. However, I'm having trouble with the exact build which I should follow assuming I survive past this point with minimal probe loss.
At this point I feel that I should be ahead but I find I will often lose when my opponent either techs quickly or cannon rushes me.
My questions are: For how long do I cut probes? How many zealots should I make? (is 1 enough or too risky?) How quickly should I take gas/resume mining gas and start a cyber?
Finally, is the forge response the best or should I be trying to defend with 2 gates of my own, even if the 2nd is very late?
PvT
I scout at 13 in this matchup
1) 2/3 rax marine-scv all in
I faced this so often at one point that every time I scouted a gasless terran who hadn't walled in I assumed it was coming. Thankfully I'm seeing it less often now, but when it comes I usually lose.
Should I be making a zealot every time I'm don't scout a low-ground CC or is this too extreme? Once I do see it coming, what is the best response: Is a 2nd gate or 2nd gas necessary? Should I be using any chrono on warpgate, or all of it on stalker production? Should I continue with probe production since I will be pulling all of them at some point anyway? Is it sensible to make an extra pylon to power the gateway, even if I am well below my supply cap?
If anyone has a replay which they feel shows an effective defense of any of these builds then it would be great to see them!
Thanks
there's 2 possible responses to the cannon rush. the first ( and probly most simple) is to throw down your own forge and protect your nexus with 2 cannons of your own. (he won't be able to move the probe in range without it dying)
the second is to kill the probe on the high ground and wall your base off tight. (like 3 pylons tight, not 1 gap and zealot in the hole since he can mineral walk through. if he has a cannon on the low ground and he's half decent you won't get his probe on the high ground, so use the first option.
for proxy 2 gate, since you already have your core down before you know itt's coming your only real option is to chrono out 2 stalkers and just go for the base trade.
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On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup.
Stop doing that. PvP is a matchup with enormous cheese potential and a lot of volatile situations. You don't have to 9 scout, but at least scout after your 13 gate. Either you should be the one cheesing or you should go find out what's going on. I understand the idea of trying to be slightly ahead, but scout after core is clearly cutting too many corners for that match-up.
2) Proxy 2gate
My scouting pattern checks nearby proxy locations quite thoroughly so I can usually spot this before it's too late. My preferred response is to start a forge and attempt to delay the first zealots until a cannon finishes. However, I'm having trouble with the exact build which I should follow assuming I survive past this point with minimal probe loss.
At this point I feel that I should be ahead but I find I will often lose when my opponent either techs quickly or cannon rushes me.
My questions are: For how long do I cut probes? How many zealots should I make? (is 1 enough or too risky?) How quickly should I take gas/resume mining gas and start a cyber?
If you use the cannon method, you should have a sim-city planned that puts the cannon next to your nexus and lets you close it off with a building; that way you can just run around until it finishes. I don't usually do this though; my preferred response is to match gateway production and put my old warcraft 3 micro to use for the zealot war. You need to make smart decisions about how you micro your zealots and probes and you also need to make sure you are matching your opponent's production with a plan to trump him. If you're on 2 gates and he's on 2 gates, get yourself a 3rd gate or get Stalkers (or both) and then keep ramping up production.
If you have less Zealots than him, you can put 3 on the ramp on hold position and fight 3v3 instead of 4v3 or 5v3. This is the best way to wait for Stalkers or a cannon to finish since you trade about evenly and because you can pull back weakened zealots, but he can't as easily if he's crowding the ramp.
I think you should have 3 probes for gas and 16+ on minerals, so I don't like cutting probes here but I think it's right to prioritize building units and extra gateways/pylons etc over your probe production. And don't ever forget your pylons, just like when you're facing a 4gate.
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How are you supposed to respond to 1-base all-ins in PvT? Last 2 terrans I've played have done them and I got steamrolled. Here's a replay of a 2-port banshee/marine/hellion/scv all-in (doesn't just reading that piss you off?):
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=265991
I know that I engaged terribly and I should have stayed on my ramp, I don't know what the hell I was thinking. But what should I do? What tech should I go for? I went for charge but he didn't make any tanks (I'm retarded). I feel like I should have just engaged on the ramp, FF'd away everything but the SCVs and chewed those up while focusing the banshees with my stalkers, but eh.
So, what's the proper response when I see that? I went 1-gate robo because I saw the factory, but that's as far as I got where I think I did anything right. Rush to a colossus? I feel like the banshees will just demolish it.
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Canada13430 Posts
On June 24 2012 13:46 Wyrd wrote:How are you supposed to respond to 1-base all-ins in PvT? Last 2 terrans I've played have done them and I got steamrolled. Here's a replay of a 2-port banshee/marine/hellion/scv all-in (doesn't just reading that piss you off?): http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=265991I know that I engaged terribly and I should have stayed on my ramp, I don't know what the hell I was thinking. But what should I do? What tech should I go for? I went for charge but he didn't make any tanks (I'm retarded). I feel like I should have just engaged on the ramp, FF'd away everything but the SCVs and chewed those up while focusing the banshees with my stalkers, but eh. So, what's the proper response when I see that? I went 1-gate robo because I saw the factory, but that's as far as I got where I think I did anything right. Rush to a colossus? I feel like the banshees will just demolish it.
Against banshee marine, assuming all you want is a proper "response" you are supposed to get pheonix and some cannons and zealots
you want to have done a 1 gate expand as well. I dont have sc2 available to me at this moment so more specific stuff I can not comment on at the moment.
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On June 24 2012 12:50 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup. Stop doing that. PvP is a matchup with enormous cheese potential and a lot of volatile situations. You don't have to 9 scout, but at least scout after your 13 gate. Either you should be the one cheesing or you should go find out what's going on. I understand the idea of trying to be slightly ahead, but scout after core is clearly cutting too many corners for that match-up.
Scouting after cyber is fine and a lot of top players do it in PvP. It makes builds like the recent 1 zealot 3 stalker opening do-able and all the different Startale 2 on each gas pvp openings. However, if u aren't doing a build that requires it, it's probably better just to scout after gate to be safe, or at least search the common proxy locations and then send it back to the mineral line.
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On June 24 2012 14:49 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:50 ineversmile wrote:On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup. Stop doing that. PvP is a matchup with enormous cheese potential and a lot of volatile situations. You don't have to 9 scout, but at least scout after your 13 gate. Either you should be the one cheesing or you should go find out what's going on. I understand the idea of trying to be slightly ahead, but scout after core is clearly cutting too many corners for that match-up. Scouting after cyber is fine and a lot of top players do it in PvP. It makes builds like the recent 1 zealot 3 stalker opening do-able and all the different Startale 2 on each gas pvp openings. However, if u aren't doing a build that requires it, it's probably better just to scout after gate to be safe, or at least search the common proxy locations and then send it back to the mineral line.
Players do it at the pro level with the understanding that they are playing on a much more specific metagame and that they are punting to certain cheeses.
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I'm not fimiliar with this opening but here are my thoughts:
1. You CB out your first Stalker so that it was out at 5:32. After that you didn't start an additional Stalker until 6:29 allthough you had the minerals, gas and three Gateways to build atleast two more, maybe even three during that "down time". You should've also just delayed the Forge until you had enough units out to get rid of the Hellions.
2. You spent 4 CB on Probes and 1 on WG-tech but none on the Stalkers you eventually built in your Gateways whilst having Hellions in your main and natural. That makes no sense at all. You need units ASAP to deal with his Hellions so you might as well spend them on the Gateway if you're gonna spend them at all whilst hes in your base.
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On June 24 2012 13:46 Wyrd wrote:How are you supposed to respond to 1-base all-ins in PvT? Last 2 terrans I've played have done them and I got steamrolled. Here's a replay of a 2-port banshee/marine/hellion/scv all-in (doesn't just reading that piss you off?): http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=265991I know that I engaged terribly and I should have stayed on my ramp, I don't know what the hell I was thinking. But what should I do? What tech should I go for? I went for charge but he didn't make any tanks (I'm retarded). I feel like I should have just engaged on the ramp, FF'd away everything but the SCVs and chewed those up while focusing the banshees with my stalkers, but eh. So, what's the proper response when I see that? I went 1-gate robo because I saw the factory, but that's as far as I got where I think I did anything right. Rush to a colossus? I feel like the banshees will just demolish it.
First off your Probe scouted a gas opening with a quick Factory. You pretty much knew for a fact that he was going for an all in or some kind of Hellion expand. Therefor I think you should've built your Nexus before the second gas and Robo and spent all CB on Probes untill you have about 32-35 of them if he's going for an all in. You would of been better off against his build and could've spent a CB on an Observer once the Robo finished which would delay your scouting a bit but not by much.
The Warp Prism play was way too late and made no sense. You don't really need to be counter aggressive against a 1 base once you've expanded. You will win every single time if you hold off his pushes and if he tries to expand later on you should either be way ahead so you can kill him straight away or you can start transitioning and getting ahead of him in tech.
In response to the 2 Port Banshee I think you can either go Phoenix as someone suggested but you also need atleast one more Gateway. I feel that the best way to deal with any sort of all in that includes air is to just wipe out his ground army and then warp in Stalkers to kill off his air units.
EDIT: I fully agree with getting 1-2 Cannons to deal with this btw. Cannons are great against everything that all in consist of.
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Italy12248 Posts
On June 24 2012 14:51 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 14:49 blooblooblahblah wrote:On June 24 2012 12:50 ineversmile wrote:On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup. Stop doing that. PvP is a matchup with enormous cheese potential and a lot of volatile situations. You don't have to 9 scout, but at least scout after your 13 gate. Either you should be the one cheesing or you should go find out what's going on. I understand the idea of trying to be slightly ahead, but scout after core is clearly cutting too many corners for that match-up. Scouting after cyber is fine and a lot of top players do it in PvP. It makes builds like the recent 1 zealot 3 stalker opening do-able and all the different Startale 2 on each gas pvp openings. However, if u aren't doing a build that requires it, it's probably better just to scout after gate to be safe, or at least search the common proxy locations and then send it back to the mineral line. Players do it at the pro level with the understanding that they are playing on a much more specific metagame and that they are punting to certain cheeses.
Specifically, core scout is basically always fine on 4 players map where proxies are basically impossible (and really weak when done), but on 3 and 2 spawn maps you should always at least check proxy spots.
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On June 24 2012 14:51 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 14:49 blooblooblahblah wrote:On June 24 2012 12:50 ineversmile wrote:On June 24 2012 07:03 .Enigma wrote:
Hi TL, I've been losing consistently against some very specific builds and I'm looking for the best possible response to each.
Ideally this would be a responsive build order which is well refined and proven to work. I'm sure a lot of people have difficulty with the same builds so hopefully this can also help others.
PvP
I scout after cyber in this matchup. Stop doing that. PvP is a matchup with enormous cheese potential and a lot of volatile situations. You don't have to 9 scout, but at least scout after your 13 gate. Either you should be the one cheesing or you should go find out what's going on. I understand the idea of trying to be slightly ahead, but scout after core is clearly cutting too many corners for that match-up. Scouting after cyber is fine and a lot of top players do it in PvP. It makes builds like the recent 1 zealot 3 stalker opening do-able and all the different Startale 2 on each gas pvp openings. However, if u aren't doing a build that requires it, it's probably better just to scout after gate to be safe, or at least search the common proxy locations and then send it back to the mineral line. Players do it at the pro level with the understanding that they are playing on a much more specific metagame and that they are punting to certain cheeses.
I wasn't necessarily talking about pro level, there are tons of high masters and GM protoss players that do these specific builds that require a late scout. There is also a very low risk of these sorts of cheeses on 4 player maps.
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Does any one know a build order for PartinGs Gateway rush where he does a huge attack around 8-9 minutes?This can apply to PvT or PvZ.
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On June 24 2012 16:50 grimbar wrote:
Does any one know a build order for PartinGs Gateway rush where he does a huge attack around 8-9 minutes?This can apply to PvT or PvZ.
It's no set order. Just open 12 or 13 gate, normal timing on core and gasses, then build as few zealots and stalkers as possible, build mainly sentries, drop gates as you can afford them, take a quick expansion and constantly chrono probes up to the attack, when you stop probe production snd chrono gates.
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hi, Im playing my 2nd season as protoss. mid-high master, I have a question regaring ling baneling drops style pvz.
What is the ideal compostion vs this, for example if you go FFE 4 gate Robo to 3rd, obs first u scout his ling style, what tech will you add. Collsus feels derp. What is your general game plan after spotting this. I have timings in my head for stanard a click mass roach style but I dont nail the ling bling style.
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How do I play PvZ? I would like to do some kind of 1 base opener to get some agression going because I hate just letting the zerg take a 3rd. I am diamond lvl and it seems like all pvz is even at the pro level is the protoss getting lucky and winning with an all in.
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EPT
