Hey, Gold league Protoss here and PvZ is my absolute weakest matchup. No matter what I do it always seems to fail, if I go mass blink Stalkers I get destroyed by Infestor/Ling, if I go Stargate...well this happens.
I tried to open up Stargate to force Roach/Hydra and compensate for the lack of map control that comes with going FFE. He anticipates this and shuts down my air play immediately. He then follows this up with a huge Roach/Hydra/Corruptor/Broodlord mix that demolishes me completely.
What did I do wrong here? What did I do right but perhaps could have done better?
This matchup is just incredibly frustrating for me (currently I'm 31-34...47% win rate) it's getting to the point where SC2 isn't even fun for me, since I feel like as soon as I hit a Zerg I'm going to lose.
Firstly, I was surprised to see how good gold league players have become. You guys both played better than I was expecting. I liked your initial build order and your transition. It looked like you had a solid game plan which was good. You also did really well on upgrades and were ahead of your opponent which is pretty rare for pvz. Anyhow, here are some things you could improve upon.
1. You lost 2 void rays for absolutely nothing. Your opponent went hydras, which is good and what you intended to do. However, you lost the voidrays when you really didn't need to. Instead of going deep into the creep you should be poking around the edges of his base (specifically behind his natural on that map) and at his potential 3rd base locations. Stay in a place where you know the void rays can safely escape.
2. Really bad probe distribution. If you take a look at the replay, you will notice that around the time your void rays died you had like 8-10 mining at your natural and 40 or so at your main. Make sure you have your workings mining as evenly as possible. This really hurt your income and prevented you from getting the number of gateway units you needed later on.
3. You didn't make an observer. Unless you can already see your opponent coming towards your base you should always make an observer first. If you had done this, you would have seen his massive corruptor count in preparation for your colossus and switched to immortals and/or templar instead.
4. When your opponent attacked all your colossus were in front and died instantly. Make sure you always have colossus in back and put them on a separate hotkey if you didn't already. You also had a void ray just randomly sitting at a watchtower all game as well. Void rays are necessary against brood lords unless you have mass blink stalker.
5. You had a ton of money. At the end you had over 3k minerals banked. The main problem was your gateway count. You need to make an additional 3-4 gateways each time you take an expansion (while the expansion is building). You only had around 5 at the end of the game.
The rally point for your expo at the nat was set to your main. At one point in the game you had about 16+ extra probes at your main not really increasing your mining rate. That's what hurt you the most that game. Your macro could use some work as well. You had 1k minerals at some point in the game.
Honestly, this isn't a really good replay. Please post another one where your rally point for your expo isn't pointing to your main. Unless you do this for all games, then you should really fix that bad habit.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm shocked about my Probe saturation, usually I'm petty good about it, I didn't realise that.
My use of the Void Rays was really poor now that I realise it, I checked for the third with one after it was revealed rather than attempting to do damage, which was huge. I guess on one hand him automatically going Hydra was a good thing since it was exactly what I wanted him to do, but this ended up killing me as his maco was just ridiculously far ahead of mine. In the actual engagement I just moved my Colossi and they died practically immediately and my forcefields were off.
I think macro might have been the major mistake as I'm not sure if I could have won that battle (how much of a difference would those forcefields have made against such an insanely large force?)
On August 01 2011 00:15 Xaeldaren wrote: Thanks for the feedback! I'm shocked about my Probe saturation, usually I'm petty good about it, I didn't realise that.
My use of the Void Rays was really poor now that I realise it, I checked for the third with one after it was revealed rather than attempting to do damage, which was huge. I guess on one hand him automatically going Hydra was a good thing since it was exactly what I wanted him to do, but this ended up killing me as his maco was just ridiculously far ahead of mine. In the actual engagement I just moved my Colossi and they died practically immediately and my forcefields were off.
I think macro might have been the major mistake as I'm not sure if I could have won that battle (how much of a difference would those forcefields have made against such an insanely large force?)
The forcefields wouldn't have mattered too much, he had too many corrupters so he'd take out your collosi anyway.
The biggest problem was just your gateway count and general scouting as has been said. When I play toss I like to do 1 gate for a while when I forge FE then add on like 4 or 5 more after I have reached about 15-18 probes on each mineral line, then once I take my third I throw down like 10 more gates because my macro with toss sucks and I find it allows me to miss some production cycles, my toss is probably mid diamond level because I have okay micro.
So while this isn't the best advice, it will probably work well for you until your warp in timings improve, as you start to get better and realize you can't hit the amount of warp ins you have without going broke you can start cutting gateways as your macro improves, using it in this way is kind of a crutch but will help you advance in leagues a little sooner which will help your practice in general.
yeah you should check out how your income rockets when you get the transfer to your third also. I think you sort that and your gateways and youd have a much larger army.
Also in the fight when you ff you didnt move back at all. I find that is often when p really hurts me.
Im gold also and a z. Right now i look forward to seeing void rays when i fasst expand because i have several queens. Also, I think he went hydra blind which is probably why only 2 queens.
I think his early game was built for your build in mind
Yeah I'm just here to second ETisME. If I see a sentry or forge FE I'm already thinking roach ling timing attack ( I rarely all in with it, if the attack fails I'm usually hurting for units but have an equal amount of workers).
If I see 1 cannon I swear to god I'm going to kill you with vengeance. Don't be cheap.
1 Cannon is fine. Keep your scout probe(s) alive. If you scout a push, make 2-3 more cannons and ready your sentries. If you hold it off, you basically have won.
I just entered plat (also EU server) and I remember having the exact same problem as you. I would lose to zerg most every match to a point where I had absolutely no confidence I could win those.
I would suggest you change your mindset when entering PvZ matchups and for a start choose and use only ONE build order until you're comfortable with it and can do it blindfolded.
This is a pretty solid and tried build that opens toward any midgame you want. As for the mindset, try to get rid of the frustration and just say to yourself it doesn't matter if you lose. You're practicing your build, you know that it will work, and just keep at it. Analyze your replays, recognize mistakes and be positive that you'll fix those on your next matchup. Just be confident.
After 3-4 wins you'll get that feeling that no zerg of equal skill could beat you. You'll know what you're doing and winning streaks will come.
tl;dr: pick a proven build and keep a positive attitude.
im Silber League player and my normal Build against Zerg is a 3 Gate Sentry Expansion and it really works. Try it out, its really important that you make nice decend forcefields to cut the army of youre opponent. For Brootlords, go into Blink stalker and blink under them, should work pretty well.
Hi, I have similar problems against Zerg - even when I win I think it's more out of luck or my opponent making a mistake more than any good play from me. So, I know what you mean, OP.
I don't like the Stargate play because I don't have the skill yet to pull it off (I'm only Gold on NA) and I want to focus on my macro - I can't micro these units well enough and keep up my macro well enough at the same time. Luckily I have 2 mates who play Zerg, so I've started to log some practice games versus them when the opportunity arises, focussing on 2 builds:
2 Gate Expo on smaller maps: what do people think of this? I think 3 Gate delays my expo a little too long while 1 Gate leaves me vulnerable to early attacks. I usually try to 2 Gates - Nexus - Forge - Cannon - Gate and so on. Is this a reasonably riskier variation of the 3 Gate?
Forge Fast Expand on larger maps: I'm still trying to work on my timings with this build but I don't know that I particularly like it - it makes me feel too passive for too long.
Diamond Protoss, I hate PvZ right now too. Zergs are very good at countering 1-base stargate play. You can force a couple spores, delay tech a little, but you can't rely on doing any economic damage. A couple overlords, maybe a queen.
Here's what I've been doin: Can I fast-expand on this map? Yes: FFE. If Zerg goes hatch-first, you might be able to cannon their natural (Tal Darim). Pool first, I feel slightly ahead, but need to get pressure on quick or they'll just get a fast 3rd up. 6-gate +1, 7-gate +2 blink, or stargate No: Did Zerg hatch first, or pool but no gas? Yes: 1-gate expand. Can be hard to hold with just a zealot and 2 sentries. Then get 2 more gates and a forge No: 3-gate expand or void ray expand (or dt expand). They all suck and you're behind.
On August 02 2011 05:16 Sated wrote: Don't 3gate sentry expand. Any decent Zerg will know you can't pressure them and quickly take a third, before being able to infinitely deny your third because you can't leave your base without a ling run-by wrecking your stuff... or something like that.
Go for an earlier stargate to take map control using void-rays. This forces hydra/queens/spores and delays their tech. It's especially good at denying their third, giving you time to then get your third running and to get colossus tech. Day[9] did a daily on it recently, looking at MCs games. Lemme find the link...
He even reviews a game were MC does 3gate sentry expand and gets his stuff wrecked. Derp
I disagree.
3 gate expand is one of the best builds at punishing a fast third from Zerg along with Forge FE -> 5/6 gate. The counter to Stargate play is a quick third from Zerg as long as they scout the Stargate and can connect the third with creep and have sufficient anti-air.
I think if you're learning PvZ, 3 gate expand is the best way to go about it as it provides a lot of flexibility in things you can do.
On August 02 2011 05:30 aZealot wrote: Hi, I have similar problems against Zerg - even when I win I think it's more out of luck or my opponent making a mistake more than any good play from me. So, I know what you mean, OP.
I don't like the Stargate play because I don't have the skill yet to pull it off (I'm only Gold on NA) and I want to focus on my macro - I can't micro these units well enough and keep up my macro well enough at the same time. Luckily I have 2 mates who play Zerg, so I've started to log some practice games versus them when the opportunity arises, focussing on 2 builds:
2 Gate Expo on smaller maps: what do people think of this? I think 3 Gate delays my expo a little too long while 1 Gate leaves me vulnerable to early attacks. I usually try to 2 Gates - Nexus - Forge - Cannon - Gate and so on. Is this a reasonably riskier variation of the 3 Gate?
Forge Fast Expand on larger maps: I'm still trying to work on my timings with this build but I don't know that I particularly like it - it makes me feel too passive for too long.
Thanks for any help, fellow Brotoss.
The reason protoss players started doing 3-gate expo is because of the amount of pressure that comes from 2 base roach-ling. If you're playing against a decent zerg who can execute the roach-ling all in well, 2 gate expansion should not hold against it. MC likes to do 1 gate expo on certain maps based on rush distance and how fast he gets his stargate out for void rays. This only works because of how crisp his build is and how he executes it to perfection each time.
The second reason why 3-gate expo is good is because it present some sort of threat for the enemy zerg player. If the zerg doesn't scout correctly, or gets too greed with drones, you can end the game with a FF on ramp and attacking his natural w/o spines. If you open 1 gate/2gate expo, he won't feel threatened and won't be intimated/tricked into building unnecessary units early on. If you 3 gate expo, try to move out with your army towards the middle of the map, clearing xel'nagas, even if it is an empty threat. It's likely to get some response from zerg players and he won't feel comfortable sitting back and droning the whole time.
On August 02 2011 00:27 dysfunkt wrote: I just entered plat (also EU server) and I remember having the exact same problem as you. I would lose to zerg most every match to a point where I had absolutely no confidence I could win those.
I would suggest you change your mindset when entering PvZ matchups and for a start choose and use only ONE build order until you're comfortable with it and can do it blindfolded.
This is a pretty solid and tried build that opens toward any midgame you want. As for the mindset, try to get rid of the frustration and just say to yourself it doesn't matter if you lose. You're practicing your build, you know that it will work, and just keep at it. Analyze your replays, recognize mistakes and be positive that you'll fix those on your next matchup. Just be confident.
After 3-4 wins you'll get that feeling that no zerg of equal skill could beat you. You'll know what you're doing and winning streaks will come.
tl;dr: pick a proven build and keep a positive attitude.
Don't 3gate sentry expand. Any decent Zerg will know you can't pressure them and quickly take a third, before being able to infinitely deny your third because you can't leave your base without a ling run-by wrecking your stuff... or something like that.
Go for an earlier stargate to take map control using void-rays. This forces hydra/queens/spores and delays their tech. It's especially good at denying their third, giving you time to then get your third running and to get colossus tech. Day[9] did a daily on it recently, looking at MCs games. Lemme find the link...
On August 02 2011 00:27 dysfunkt wrote: I just entered plat (also EU server) and I remember having the exact same problem as you. I would lose to zerg most every match to a point where I had absolutely no confidence I could win those.
I would suggest you change your mindset when entering PvZ matchups and for a start choose and use only ONE build order until you're comfortable with it and can do it blindfolded.
This is a pretty solid and tried build that opens toward any midgame you want. As for the mindset, try to get rid of the frustration and just say to yourself it doesn't matter if you lose. You're practicing your build, you know that it will work, and just keep at it. Analyze your replays, recognize mistakes and be positive that you'll fix those on your next matchup. Just be confident.
After 3-4 wins you'll get that feeling that no zerg of equal skill could beat you. You'll know what you're doing and winning streaks will come.
tl;dr: pick a proven build and keep a positive attitude.
Xaeldaren, in my honest opinion, this is by far the best reply you have received in this thread. I used to have the exact same problem as both of you when I was in gold league, and I am now a mid-high master's level protoss. I remember the feeling of despair whenever I came across a zerg on the ladder, always feeling like they would outproduce me and crush me. I practiced the same build over and over many times specifically against zerg's in customs, and it soon went from my worst matchup to my best by far. Now I have the confidence to beat almost any zerg I face on ladder as long as I'm on my game ^^. This is really starting to sound like some advertisement so I'll leave it at that lol.
I really have don't have much else to add to what he said because he put it perfectly.
On August 02 2011 05:30 aZealot wrote: Hi, I have similar problems against Zerg - even when I win I think it's more out of luck or my opponent making a mistake more than any good play from me. So, I know what you mean, OP.
I don't like the Stargate play because I don't have the skill yet to pull it off (I'm only Gold on NA) and I want to focus on my macro - I can't micro these units well enough and keep up my macro well enough at the same time. Luckily I have 2 mates who play Zerg, so I've started to log some practice games versus them when the opportunity arises, focussing on 2 builds:
2 Gate Expo on smaller maps: what do people think of this? I think 3 Gate delays my expo a little too long while 1 Gate leaves me vulnerable to early attacks. I usually try to 2 Gates - Nexus - Forge - Cannon - Gate and so on. Is this a reasonably riskier variation of the 3 Gate?
Forge Fast Expand on larger maps: I'm still trying to work on my timings with this build but I don't know that I particularly like it - it makes me feel too passive for too long.
Thanks for any help, fellow Brotoss.
The reason protoss players started doing 3-gate expo is because of the amount of pressure that comes from 2 base roach-ling. If you're playing against a decent zerg who can execute the roach-ling all in well, 2 gate expansion should not hold against it. MC likes to do 1 gate expo on certain maps based on rush distance and how fast he gets his stargate out for void rays. This only works because of how crisp his build is and how he executes it to perfection each time.
The second reason why 3-gate expo is good is because it present some sort of threat for the enemy zerg player. If the zerg doesn't scout correctly, or gets too greed with drones, you can end the game with a FF on ramp and attacking his natural w/o spines. If you open 1 gate/2gate expo, he won't feel threatened and won't be intimated/tricked into building unnecessary units early on. If you 3 gate expo, try to move out with your army towards the middle of the map, clearing xel'nagas, even if it is an empty threat. It's likely to get some response from zerg players and he won't feel comfortable sitting back and droning the whole time.
I hope this helps. 2c from a high master zerg
This is really illuminating. Thanks. I've always opened 3-gate expand without really knowing why, since every says it's standard, and I had no idea that it can also be a strong pressure build as well. haha~
Thanks guys. I'll try the 3 Gate expo from now on and see how it goes. It probably makes sense to develop a 2 Gate expo (if needed) after working on the standard build, anyway. Your tips bring to mind a recent game I had against one of my Z practice partners where I pushed out with Zealots and Sentries (on close positions on Shattered Temple) while securing my expansion, but did not seem to have enough stuff to take out the Zerg expansion - although causing considerable damage (drone, ling, spine and queen kills). Do you top Z and P players also suggest sticking to the 3 Gate expo on all maps and not developing a FFE? Even on larger maps like Taldarim and Shakuras?
On August 02 2011 05:30 aZealot wrote: Hi, I have similar problems against Zerg - even when I win I think it's more out of luck or my opponent making a mistake more than any good play from me. So, I know what you mean, OP.
I don't like the Stargate play because I don't have the skill yet to pull it off (I'm only Gold on NA) and I want to focus on my macro - I can't micro these units well enough and keep up my macro well enough at the same time. Luckily I have 2 mates who play Zerg, so I've started to log some practice games versus them when the opportunity arises, focussing on 2 builds:
2 Gate Expo on smaller maps: what do people think of this? I think 3 Gate delays my expo a little too long while 1 Gate leaves me vulnerable to early attacks. I usually try to 2 Gates - Nexus - Forge - Cannon - Gate and so on. Is this a reasonably riskier variation of the 3 Gate?
Forge Fast Expand on larger maps: I'm still trying to work on my timings with this build but I don't know that I particularly like it - it makes me feel too passive for too long.
Thanks for any help, fellow Brotoss.
The reason protoss players started doing 3-gate expo is because of the amount of pressure that comes from 2 base roach-ling. If you're playing against a decent zerg who can execute the roach-ling all in well, 2 gate expansion should not hold against it. MC likes to do 1 gate expo on certain maps based on rush distance and how fast he gets his stargate out for void rays. This only works because of how crisp his build is and how he executes it to perfection each time.
The second reason why 3-gate expo is good is because it present some sort of threat for the enemy zerg player. If the zerg doesn't scout correctly, or gets too greed with drones, you can end the game with a FF on ramp and attacking his natural w/o spines. If you open 1 gate/2gate expo, he won't feel threatened and won't be intimated/tricked into building unnecessary units early on. If you 3 gate expo, try to move out with your army towards the middle of the map, clearing xel'nagas, even if it is an empty threat. It's likely to get some response from zerg players and he won't feel comfortable sitting back and droning the whole time.
I hope this helps. 2c from a high master zerg
This is really illuminating. Thanks. I've always opened 3-gate expand without really knowing why, since every says it's standard, and I had no idea that it can also be a strong pressure build as well. haha~
It's not meant to be a strong pressure build as in "outright end game" pressure. It's kind of like 2rax in TvZ. It's still a viable expansion build (I consider 2 rax FE build unless he pulls like 6 scvs) that keeps the Zerg on his toes. Sometimes it's better to just give the THREAT of attacking with your ~6sentry/2zealot army instead of actually attacking, because if you lose any sentries during your pressure, you won't replace them throughout the game due to high gas cost of upper tier toss units. Even if you turn your head and walk in the general direction of the zerg's base, he'll shit his pants and make ling/roach/spine whatever.
On August 02 2011 00:27 dysfunkt wrote: I just entered plat (also EU server) and I remember having the exact same problem as you. I would lose to zerg most every match to a point where I had absolutely no confidence I could win those.
I would suggest you change your mindset when entering PvZ matchups and for a start choose and use only ONE build order until you're comfortable with it and can do it blindfolded.
This is a pretty solid and tried build that opens toward any midgame you want. As for the mindset, try to get rid of the frustration and just say to yourself it doesn't matter if you lose. You're practicing your build, you know that it will work, and just keep at it. Analyze your replays, recognize mistakes and be positive that you'll fix those on your next matchup. Just be confident.
After 3-4 wins you'll get that feeling that no zerg of equal skill could beat you. You'll know what you're doing and winning streaks will come.
tl;dr: pick a proven build and keep a positive attitude.
Don't 3gate sentry expand. Any decent Zerg will know you can't pressure them and quickly take a third, before being able to infinitely deny your third because you can't leave your base without a ling run-by wrecking your stuff... or something like that.
Go for an earlier stargate to take map control using void-rays. This forces hydra/queens/spores and delays their tech. It's especially good at denying their third, giving you time to then get your third running and to get colossus tech. Day[9] did a daily on it recently, looking at MCs games. Lemme find the link...
He even reviews a game were MC does 3gate sentry expand and gets his stuff wrecked. Derp
Instead of just linking newest Day9 dailies and saying "... or something like that", try actually playing the build (or against it as a Zerg vs. any decent Protoss).
3 gate expand is comfortably aggressive build that easily transitions into 4 gate robo or 6 gate allin. As soon as protoss secures his expo, he SHOULD start making pressure. Try getting your third before that as a zerg and defending it. If you manage, please give us u replay.
I follow Day9's casts regularly and I've already seen his analysis of MC's fast stargate build. I never said it was not a good build - it's an awesome one.
However that build too is also map specific and situational, and maybe more importantly, it's quite difficult to properly execute for a silver level player. And if you mess up either on timings or fail to pressure with air units properly, your opponent will come out ahead very soon. In hands of a skilled player who can read his opponent well, this build is a killer. But for someone still struggling with learning basic builds, scouting the front, timing (and hiding) stargate and microing voidrays and phoenixes while macroing and defending can be quite a task.
3 gate expand is definitely not an outdated build and I (and many other players as you can see) have very good success with it. It is lot less demanding on a new player, as well as open to many transitions while not having many weaknesses.
Instead of just linking newest Day9 dailies and saying "... or something like that", try actually playing the build (or against it as a Zerg vs. any decent Protoss).
3 gate expand is comfortably aggressive build that easily transitions into 4 gate robo or 6 gate allin. As soon as protoss secures his expo, he SHOULD start making pressure. Try getting your third before that as a zerg and defending it. If you manage, please give us u replay.
The reason I linked that video is because Day[9] deconstructs MC's build and its advantages really, really well. He also explains the disadvantages of the "standard" 3gate sentry expand too. Watch the video if you don't believe me, because Day[9] does a much better job of comparing the two builds than I ever could.
As for, "try actually playing the build", my PvZ win-rate this season is pretty much 0% using a standard 3gate sentry expand. I think I've won one PvZ game in league play this season, but that was because the Zerg did a 6/7-pool and it didn't work. I also had similar problems towards the end of season 2 against Zerg, after doing pretty well against them in the first half of the season. I've come to the conclusion that there are only two things that could be happening here:
a) I am really, really bad with that opening. This doesn't make sense, though, because if I was simply bad with it then why was I doing well with it earlier in the season? b) That opening has been "figured out" by a lot of Zerg players. This explains why I suddenly started losing a lot of PvZ games, so I'm leaning towards this being the case.
Since then, I've had a lot more success with MC's Stargate build. I've only been playing custom games because I only play league games when my bonus pool builds up, but I've been enjoying PvZ a lot more since starting to use this build. In fact, I've been winning PvZ games against Diamond Zerg players with MC's build. Let me sum this up for you:
a) I consistently lose with a 3gate sentry expand against Platinum (my level) players. b) I've won with MC's build against Diamond (above me) players.
Seriously, I'm not just coming into this thread and linking Day[9]'s video for the sake of it. It's really helped me in the PvZ match-up. If nothing else, the video is really worth watching, just so people understand the weaknesses of the "standard" sentry expand.
EDIT: Obviously, the map you're playing on needs to be considered. MC's build works best on bigger maps when you're not in close positions. In close positions, you probably wanna go for a sentry expand or even a DT expand so you don't get completely over-run by a roach/ling all-in or something of that ilk.
I don't want to be too invasive with my comment since I haven't seen your PvZ play, but I'm pretty sure that you're not doing your 3 gate sentry expand the right way. MC's opener is no doubt good, but it's punished by zerg players who don't opt to ling/roach all-in like IdrA did because they believe Zerg late game is inferior to Protoss late game. I don't know exactly what was going through MC's head when he made the build, but I feel like the 2 base ling-roach all-in played a huge role in his timings for the early SG, saved chronos, etc., since the void ray timing is such that it pops right when the all-in hits the base. They're two different types of openers, but you have to accomplish the same goal in both cases: apply pressure to Zerg so that he doesn't drone constantly.
In the case with the SG opener, you're maintaining map control, delaying third, and possibly forcing hydra to put a stop to Zerg macro. If you get ovie/drone kills, more power to you (but this won't happen in high level games). With 3-gate sentry expand, you want to at least present the threat of attacking, because otherwise, the Zerg player will sit at 4 lings and macro up to 60 drones. Too many times when I coach lower level Zerg players, I see protoss players sitting in base with their initial army instead of making a threat. Just taking out the lings at watch towers can be a huge factor in preventing the Zerg player from comfortably macroing.
I have a very high win percentage vs protoss, but the only times I consistently lose against a player is when he opens 3-gate expand. Stargate openers are really easy to block, given that the Zerg player is gathering adequate scouting information (# of sentry, gas timing, expansion timing), since queens have some of the best AA early game.
TL;DR: 3gate sentry expand is still good; present some threat so zerg doesn't drone 24/7
I don't want to be too invasive with my comment since I haven't seen your PvZ play, but I'm pretty sure that you're not doing your 3 gate sentry expand the right way.
Like I said, if I'm doing the sentry expand wrong then why did I go from winning a normal amount of PvZ games to winning absolutely none? Even if I'm doing it wrong (which is probable, I'm terribad at this game) any mistakes I've been making have been replicated throughout, yet my win-rate has changed drastically.
Perhaps I've always been doing it incorrectly to some degree and I'm suddenly facing much better opponents than I was towards the end of last season, meaning my flaws are now being exposed? My play certainly isn't perfect and I was only just promoted... but I'm still facing Platinum players like I was at the end of last season, the only difference is that I'm Platinum now instead of Gold. Meh.
I'm gonna stick to what is working for me, which is MC's build.
You have every right to play the opener you want. All I'm saying is that 3-gate sentry expand is a very viable build.
It's a different way of thinking, because when someone produces a void ray, their immediate instinct is to move it around the map to snipe ovies/drones/queens/etc. because it's an air unit and it's more intuitive. It's not so intuitive with 3 gate expand because sentries aren't "supposed" to be high pressure units, but you absolutely have to put on some pressure, or the zerg will gain the lead very quickly.
I'd recommend getting to know both of the openers, just because some openers have leverage over the other depending on the map, but once again, it's your choice to play the opener you want
This might not be too helpful for long-term improvement, but I'm a low-diamond level player and will usually do a standard 4-gate against a Zerg who goes for an early hatch. You typically can catch them off-guard and unless they scout you and make enough spines/units, they will lose outright after your 2nd/3rd wave of gateway units. I would imagine that this strategy would work most of the time in Gold league to just do when you're particularly frustrated and want an easy win. It typically works for me, about 60-70% of the time in diamond league after a 15-hatch or something similar. However, I realize its not an incredible viable strat for long-term improvement >.>
EPT
