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Hey, I'm a bronze Terran player who's pretty new to the game, but I've been getting better more and more as time goes on. I started as Zerg but switched recently to Terran, who I enjoy playing as more and win much more often with. However, more than half of the losses that I face as a Terran are all coming from the same source: Protoss players who use void rays. No matter what I do, I just can't seem to counter them. Marines and Vikings can't keep up with them, even with stim and upgrades. Eventually I just get completely overrun because they stay fully charged destroying structures.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/10260
This is a replay from a practice match I had recently. I know it's an extremely poor match on my end (I am in Bronze after all), and during the match my mouse batteries were dying and made my mouse act erratically and unresponsively at times, but overall I just don't see why I'm getting destroyed so consistently by VRs.
In the match, scouting was kind of terrible (pretty much just scanning), but scouting early wouldn't have shown me that he was making a stargate at all, although it would have helped tremendously regardless. My macro is really bad and I miss creating units often because I'm still overwhelmed at how many things you have to manage at once. The chart in the match results shows that a have an advantage all the way until the void rays appear, which happens in just about every game where I lose this way, but once the void rays come it goes completely downhill from there.
When I see a stargate(s), I usually try to go as anti-air as I possibly can, pumping out marines and vikings mainly and upgrading air and bio units. I make tons of missile turrets, but I still get completely demolished. I've tried looking for help, but almost everything I read about void rays are about high level play where they are played way differently than they are in bronze. So, what can I do to counter Void Rays when I see them coming?
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first of all
dont make turrets you should be spending your minerals on more rax/marines
and engage after the void rays charge cools off
then after killing all the VRs just counter with all your remaining force with reinforcements and win
ezpz
and dont make vikings, they get wrecked by voidrays cuz voidrays do extra dmg to armour lol
EDIT: get a real mouse lol
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I've had the same issue, but it's generally in team games. I've tested it before and running stimmed marines, with a few medivacs ofc, under the voids will typically kill them off efficiently. If there's very few voids, Ty target firing the charged ones.
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You aren't really losing because of voidrays really its just because you aren't keeping up with your macro which is pretty standard for bronze. Try expanding a few minutes earlier. You are floating 1k+ minerals most of the game. Also build some more unit producing structures, it will help you keep up with your unit production easier.
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Marines + Stim + Ghost emp works wonders against voids, MM+Ghost would have crushed what he had. Vikings are a very good counter as well, but you need to be able to micro them and the lose in a straight up battle.
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On July 26 2011 10:22 Giwoon wrote:
first of all
dont make turrets you should be spending your minerals on more rax/marines
and engage after the void rays charge cools off
then after killing all the VRs just counter with all your remaining force with reinforcements and win
ezpz
and dont make vikings, they get wrecked by voidrays cuz voidrays do extra dmg to armour lol
EDIT: get a real mouse lol
So should I just focus on Marines/Medivacs only to stop them? I read elsewhere that vikings could counter, but I'm guessing it was outdated and the extra damage vs armor got added since then. Another problem I have though is that I can't just wait for the VRs' charges to cool off because if I don't engage them, they'll just keep a full charge by destroying any structures I have until I do.
Oh, and my mouse works fine now with new batteries.
On July 26 2011 10:29 ssartor wrote:
You aren't really losing because of voidrays really its just because you aren't keeping up with your macro which is pretty standard for bronze. Try expanding a few minutes earlier. You are floating 1k+ minerals most of the game. Also build some more unit producing structures, it will help you keep up with your unit production easier.
Yeah, I know my macro always falls behind. How should I change my build (if you can even call it that) to work with a fast expo, or should I just stick to what I'm doing and make one once my minerals top 400?
On July 26 2011 10:38 ndreamer wrote:
Marines + Stim + Ghost emp works wonders against voids, MM+Ghost would have crushed what he had. Vikings are a very good counter as well, but you need to be able to micro them and the lose in a straight up battle.
Sounds like this would be a good build then http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost/Marine_Opening but I don't know if I should start using more than one build when I'm still extremely low-level.
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please dont spam apm at ur level of play because smalls mistakes happens like forgetting ur first scv.
change your opening:
Supply depot on 10
Barracks on 12
Refinery on 13
Orbital command right after barracks on 16
i can tell you that u lost because you played bad not because of the void rays
dont queue stuff
dont build 3 random depots build 1 depot at a time
have constant worker production
holy crap no offense but watching that game hurts... if you want i can teach you how to play in game there is just too many things that could be said in this post but i rather teach you in game
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Hello, my friend
you, are a low level player.
The strategy that you are trying to figure out is a moot point to you.
At your level of play ANY strategy is viable if it is done properly. I suggest you find some build order off of one base that will have an end result of you continuously pumping units to your opponent's base.
As a terran player, a 6 rax marine pump off one base wouldn't be bad.
Learn the BO, and just make sure ur never missing mules and that your barracks are always building. Once you can do this in your sleep, you can move on to more advanced things.
Remember that the point of these games is not whether you win or lose, but whether you kept pumping units and hitting those mules every time ur CC has the energy.
The reason for this is that if you cant keep your macro down pat off of one base, then any other bases wont be any better.
I know it's a drag, it's boring, but once you get the mechanics of this game down it really is much more fun. You feel more in control of the game and it stops happening where you'll be in a game and the other guy will just have way more stuff than you and you dont know why.
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Welcome to SC2!
I'm going to type things down as I see them. First of all, don't be too hard on yourself at this point in your game. I wouldn't really focus on the fact that void rays are what killed you (like some other people are also saying). I'll point out some things I noticed as I see it in the replay.
1. First of all, you sent your SCVs to go mine minerals right away. That's good, however you completely forgot to build your first SCV. You started your first SCV around 20 seconds. Around 20 seconds is when your SECOND SCV should be starting to build. Though this sounds like such a minor thing, it makes a huge difference. When I start my games, I usually click my command center first, hit S, box my SCVs, and then send them to mine minerals. You should be able to do this all within the first few seconds of the game.
2. At 1:30, your command center isn't building an SCV for about 15 seconds. That's 2 seconds shy of an entire build time for an SCV. Already you're a few workers behind.
3. Because the SCV production has been inconsistent, your money starts to pile up and at 13 food you have 3 SCVs queued up. That's bad. Don't queue up units (it's ok to queue something if the thing that is currently being built only has a few seconds left.... but other than that try to avoid it at all costs). The reason it's bad is because when you queue a unit, only 1 is being produced at a time. The two SCVs that are waiting in line cost you 100 minerals. You could have used that 100 minerals to start building your refinery. By the time the first SCV is almost done building, you would have enough money to make another one.
4. It seems like you're not quite sure how to open up. As previously posted, the standard terran opening is:
10 supply depot (usually when you have 9 supply you'll have enough money to queue up the 10th SCV... I know I said queueing is bad and it is, but for the opening you can't use it any other way so that's one of the only exceptions. After you queue it up if you're going to wall off, when you're at around 60 minerals you can have the SCV start running towards the ramp. By the time it gets there you should have almost exactly 100 minerals to start building it)
12 barracks (I usually send out a scout SCV around the same time I start my barracks)
13 gas (make sure when the refinery is done being built to send 2 more SCVs to mine gas, so 3 total are mining)
15 orbital
In case you didn't know, the number is what food you should be at when you build the building. This is assuming constant SCV production. When you build your barracks, make sure to hotkey it and constantly build units out of it.
I'm only at 2:30 into the replay and I've already noticed all of these things.
5. Something I mentioned before is sending a scout out. Typically you want to send an SCV out to try to see what your opponent is doing. In bronze league, I would mostly use it to see if your opponent is cheesing you. I don't like that you blindly put down a bunker. Had you scouted and seen that he was chronoboosting two gateways, that's not a bad response. However, if he was doing something like a fast expand build, that 100 minerals you spend on a bunker is almost enough to start making a second barracks.
6. You weren't making SCVs for a VERY long time. I cannot emphasize how important this is. The better you get at constantly producing SCVs (one at at time), the better feel you'll get for how many unit producing structures you can support. When you're inconsistent and not building SCVs, your money will pile up and give you a false idea of your income. You'll see 1000 minerals (that could have easily been spent) and think "oh man, clearly I need 6 more barracks!"
7. Try to smooth out when you make your supply depots. Don't make too many at a time. And don't wait too long to make them either. Usually when you're on one base if you're good about constantly making supply depots, you only need to make them one at a time. When you get on two bases if you're keeping up with production, that's when you need to start making them two at a time.
Honestly, I think the first couple points I made are the ones I would focus on. Right now I'm at the 10 minute mark (where you sent your units to attack, and I can tell you with certainty that whatever happens after this point in the game is irrelevant, because if you would have kept up with your unit production, and followed a standard build the game would be over already). That being said, I'll give you a few pointers that I would recommend you ignore for now until you get the other things down.
8. Don't overreact. Maybe this is due to inexperience more than anything else, but when you saw those stargates you made a TON of missle turrets. Now, imagine if instead of spending so much money on turrets, you spent the same on extra barracks. You would be able to produce a lot of marines. Believe it or not, marines do really well at clearing protoss air units, especially with stim and combat shields.
9. You scouted his proxy robo and stargate with 2 cannons near your base. You had more than enough to deal with that instead of letting it sit there for such a long time. Marauders and marines do really well against cannons.
10. When you can, try to take the Xel'naga watch towers. Having vision is so important.
The problem with the void ray engagement wasn't that void rays own marines or anything. The big problem was you only had 10 marines against his 9 voidrays. Marines are way cheaper than voidrays, and cost efficient against them. Work on constantly producing out of your buildings and you'll be in a much better place, and in this case you would have been able to end the game way before your opponent could even think about making any.
Feel free to message me here or in game. I'm Soapy with the code 452, I'll be more than happy to help you out, and explain what I posted here in more detail. I play terran as my main so I should be able to give you a good start.
Keep building those workers!
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Well one fatal flaw I can point out is that you spread yourself too thin. Getting a bunch of techs with terran is not a good idea. Since you've played zerg before I understand that it's good to get a bunch of techs in order to adapt. However, with terran, it's a horrible idea. You have to focus on either making a bio army(marine/maurder) or mech(factory units). Don't try to make both. You had an early advantage and you threw it away by teching up to blue flame. Instead of blue flame, you could have added 2 more rax and kill that toss straight up.
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In that battle that you lost a lot to the voidrays, simply, you didnt have enough that could shoot up. Marauders, tanks, and hellions all arent known for their ability to do well against voidrays.
But bigger reason, as everybody will point out, is simple macro. expanding at the 20 minute mark is a bit late  after 10 minutes is known as kinda a slower expansion. BUT, your base also wasnt fully saturated, so i wont worry about it too much (especially since ur opponent was about even with you in that front). With that match, you basically didnt have enough things to shoot up (ill give you a hint, hellions, while I LOVE the unit a lot. isnt that super good in protoss matches until you know what you are doing more. They eat up zealots, yes, but it requires kinda a special circumstance to start using hellions more (though do NOT let me, or anybody, influence your creativity)).
What got me better, and i mean it worked really quite well. It shot me way out of bronze league and through silver league really fast and to the top of gold league, was a build I really loved. It actually started because I hated protoss midgame because I always lost to it. So I decided I was going to win fast. And I was going to win by throwing marines at him lol. So I did a build where all I did was make marines and SCVs at the beginning. and it got me in the mindset that I was going to always make SCVs and marines. As soon as my money started adding up (even though I was making marines and SCVs one at a time, and not queing) I would put down another barracks when i got over 150. Then i would make marines out of that and add another barracks at 150 (also not forgetting supply depots).
I would end up getting a force of about 8 marines and then move to a spot near his natural and rally there. And I found that with a 4th rax completed and also rallying marines and i would push with that and would a lot of times win. It would also nicely set me up for getting an expansion when I pushed out. Which made me feel like I was playing a macro game. I also learned that right before I pushed out I would start making a refinery. Then after I was doing with my push (if it didnt win outright) I would have enough gas to also put down like 2 tech labs and start getting marauders out. It was a nice transition at the time.
Now what I was doing wasn't really doing a crazy awesome build or anything. In fact, I now know that doing that is actually not the best at my level play (one base cant support 4 rax). BUT! What it did was it got me focused on making SCVs and making marines constantly. I would watch like a hawk to make sure I wasn't missing things, and would make sure to put down supply depots also (be wary, it starts to take a lot of supply fast, so make sure u keep putting down supply depots). It also allowed me to safely expand behind it pretty quickly since I had a lot of marines out on the field. So what it taught me to do was really train my fingers to build SCVs and use my buildings constantly. It was a really simple strategy to start with. I mean I only had to worry about 2 units, SCVs and marines. And at this point in your skill level you dont want to try to think too much. (I mean I still struggle with doing funky builds im not used to because im not used to the timings of when to make another unit).
So TRY it. Do not miss an SCV, and do not miss a marine, and do not miss a supply block at the beginning. Keep making SCVs one at a time, make marines one at a time, when your minerals get high enough add another rax. Keep making marines from both of them at the same time, when ur money gets up again make another barracks and make marines out of that (do not forget SCVs). do that until 4 rax, then attack. (rally near their natural so when you pull back with your marines you can quickly grab the 3 or 4 that are sitting there and move back in reinforced). It will train your fingers more then anything. Which is exactly what you need at this point.
It also worked with every matchup. Be careful with terran bunkers. Marines are good in large numbers, but very weak in small numbers (like 4 or less). so when you get low, run them back and pick up more marines that were rallied. Or if you feel like they are holding well, fall back to your base and you will be ready to put up your expansion, meaning you have a lead in that way.
TRY IT. It really is what made me improve so much.
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An equal value in marines with stim/combat shield and some medivacs destroy voidrays.
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Wow, there replies are so helpful. My opening got a ton better now, and I can sometimes get to the Orbital Command completely smoothly. I'm still not scouting all the time with an SCV early game, mainly because I don't have any clue what to take from it, especially in the low levels where play is so unpredictable. However, I still sometimes make pointless bunkers and other things as a result.
My supply depots are naturally getting spaced out more appropriately, but I still get supply blocked every so often and sometimes make a couple extra at a time so that I can manage everything else more easily, but I think that extra time between making them is causing me to forget about them more than I would if I spaced them out more. I sometimes end up sacrificing energy from the OC to make the supply drop thing.
I'm still having trouble remembering all the buildings I make, especially once I begin to make the 1st expo. I'm forgetting less and less, but I think some of the forgetting is being replaced by queuing because I'm being overly cautious of missing unit production. The thing I forget more than anything would probably be the energy on the OCs, followed shortly by forgetting to to actually lift of my 2nd OC into place.
I focus too much on the main screen. This causes a ton of problems for me. Money can pile up this way, it contributes greatly to supply blocking, and I sometimes miss crucial things happening on the minimap (at one point my army off-screen is in a perfect spot to intercept a muta harass that's shown on the minimap seconds ahead of time, but I don't do anything about it because I'm focused on the main screen, although that game isn't the one in the new replay). I set up hotkeys very precisely (4 for CCs, 5 for rax, 6 factory, 7 starport) and I focus too much on the main screen to cycle through the hotkeys and check on production. This leads to either floating resources, or excess queuing. I'm going to try to remember "tapping" from now on though, as Day[9] calls it.
When I use scans, I have trouble using what information I receive to apply to what I'm doing. This one is really straightforward and me just having a solid enough understanding of all the game's units/structures and what to do to counter them.
However, I haven't ran into any void ray issues anymore. Something I lacked in my gameplay before is that I wasn't aggressive enough, or if I was early game it was for some harass that didn't always work, and after that I never followed up with anything. I basically just sat in my base and let my opponent build up his mass void rays, and I think that was one of my biggest problems. So I think that my problem has been resolved.
Since it's been pretty well established that void rays weren't the problem, and that I was falsely attributing correlation to causation, and knowing that I'm focusing on my own gameplay more. I played a few more practice games, and have a couple of replays I don't mind sharing (although they're TvZ):
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/10281
I really like this one. The main problems I saw were how I handled my resources. If I let my resources get too high by missing production (especially during the attacks I made), my "solution" was to queue my way back down. I get too focused on my attacks and forget production, which leads into the queuing as well. And, although I don't really want to focus on it until a higher level, my micro was really bad. There were the part where I pinned my marauders directly against my seige tanks when I could have split them and done so much better, and then there was the part where I couldn't select the seige tanks to hotkey them before moving out, and me learning mid-fight that you need to unseige tanks to load them into a medivac (I think). Overall I think I did really well in this game though compared to my previous ones. I also realized as I was making the 1st supply depot that I should have been using that SCV to make the barracks as well, which made the opening so much easier to pull off.
EDIT: I've realized that I really don't have much of a plan on what to do once the Orbital command goes down. I think I finally have everything ok up until that point, then I just have no idea where I want to go and end up getting spread out too much in unit composition. What would be a good consistent way to go after the OC finishes that I could use against any race?
Also, sorry for deviating from the topic title so much, but as it turns out my problem really wasn't void rays at all...
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On July 26 2011 16:42 bamman1108 wrote:
Also, sorry for deviating from the topic title so much, but as it turns out my problem really wasn't void rays at all...
ACTUALLY... in your first replay, your problem was kinda voidrays. when I clicked on it I was like "im going to watch this... see the protoss player get to 100 food while he only is at 60 and realize its just completely macro." But in the replay you were ahead of food. You just attacked (with a tiny bit of mismicro with your vikings) without enough units that can shoot up. also get that combat shield out for marines. its a needed upgraded if you are ever using marines.
You have a strong grasp of what you need to do. Which means you are in a very good position to launch off. To be honest, I still have trouble scouting protoss especially at the beginning build orders. Unless I see a darkshrine or something I dont know what im looking at besides counting warp gates and seeing if the stuff is there for colossus or whatever. So dont fret that too much.
I like when you mentioned it is hard to scout in bronze because of the crazy stuff that happens. and it is true. Its hard to figure out what they are doing when they build double gas on 9 not because they need it but because htey are terrible. That is why try to focus on just simple builds. Like the one I told you. The focus is making units (i taught myself muscle memory to remember when its time to build another SCV or unit... so much that if i accidently get supply blocked I will find myself accidently getting 3 SCVs queued up because i keep automatically making more SCVs on time even though none are being made due to supply block).
Just try what I told you with the rax. it is easy to manage resources when all you are managing at the beginning is minerals. Gas timing gets tricky even in upper leagues. and it makes you feel like a total BAMF when you attack really early on AND get down a fast expansion lol.
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First of all, don't wall off, it's just inviting void rays to come knocking on your door. Anyways to counter, you first have to know whether or not his going void rays. I usually hide an SCV in their base, and scout them after a while. However, if your SCV gets killed, and you found out too late, build marines out of your rax. I don't know what you mean by vikings not being able to catch up to void rays. Once you get vikings and marines, you'll have to hit them before their Colos. come out to kill your marines(not a good sight). Get 1 or 2 turrets at your main entrance just in case they decide to come from the front. and you should be using your vikings to come at them from the back and blocking their way of exiting and your marines should be on the other side. Anyways good luck!!!
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On July 26 2011 17:34 iSoLow wrote:
First of all, don't wall off, it's just inviting void rays to come knocking on your door. Anyways to counter, you first have to know whether or not his going void rays. I usually hide an SCV in their base, and scout them after a while. However, if your SCV gets killed, and you found out too late, build marines out of your rax. I don't know what you mean by vikings not being able to catch up to void rays. Once you get vikings and marines, you'll have to hit them before their Colos. come out to kill your marines(not a good sight). Get 1 or 2 turrets at your main entrance just in case they decide to come from the front. and you should be using your vikings to come at them from the back and blocking their way of exiting and your marines should be on the other side. Anyways good luck!!!
lolwut? Wall off against protoss. Especially at your level. There is a lot wrong with this post. For example... missile turrets at main entrance isnt the best idea except for detection. Missile turrets should be built around mineral lines first since that is the most important part of your base.
Also... voidrays straight into colossus is kinda an interesting tech route... particularly if u have any number of vikings since 1 viking can kill infinite colossus.
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The thing you need to keep in mind is that void rays cost a lot, you can easily make enogh marines to kill all his void rays if you spend your money well.
If you see someone massing voidrays just go over to his base and kill him, you could leave 10-15 marines just to keep the voids from countering.
Just don't get worried when you see stargate, cost for cost your marines can handle his void rays unless he has one more base than you or something like that.
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You didn't lose to VoidRays....he merely used those. He could have built literally anything and won this.
Here's a the major points I saw during the game If you fix these, you'd have won no matter what unit composition he made.
Some of these probably sound a little snarky, I'm just using humour to make a point, I don't mean them as insults.
1:30 - Not building an SCV, gotta keep those constant
3:30 - No SCV making, indecisive on the tech lab...
you started making a marine, cancelled, built a tech lab
Then afterwards you made a marine anyway. Woulda saved time just letting the 2nd one finish
3:50 - You have not scouted at all. You have no idea what he's got,
but you put down a bunker. You've got 250 minerals, you're about to be supply blocked.
This doesn't make a lot of sense at this time.
4:30 - Supply blocked... building 3 supply Depots in response. Try not to get blocked, and try not to over build just to avoid blocks
5:11 - it Looks like your money is spent, but in reality you've got 200 minerals queued up in supply blocked stuff. could be adding another barracks or something with that money.
6:09 - You still have not scouted, but now you've got an Eng Bay and Factory down.
You're making key tech decisions with no information
6:24 - You've queued up Combat shields about 100 seconds before stim is done. That's just sinking 100/100 for no reason and delaying the starport you've going to throw down.Don't queue up units often...but NEVER queue up tech.
6:55 - You could have lost right here. 7 Zealots come streaming in, and inexplicably target a Depot and techlab instead of the Bunker.
It they had targetting the bunker, that's probably game over right here.
Also worth noting that a half-decent Protoss could have way more than this at this moment in time. You have not scouted at all, if he had been doing a 4 gate push or something, he'd have more units and this would be approxcimately the timing of that hitting you.
7:30 - You're now attacking your barracks. You lost the Techlab that was almost done stim... You need to pull SCVs to repair that stuff. Losing stim right here is a HUGE set back.
His attack was not actually a complete failure, just because he sniped that tech.
7:45 - 800 minerals and 500 gas... You built nothing during that attack. you've got a Factory and a starport both that haven't even begun to make a unit yet.
7:54 - Depot burns down. Again totally prevantable by pulling 1-2 SCVs
9:11 - You're pushing out. Why'd you build the factory and starport?
10:00 - Again doing that 3 depot splurge, indecisive changing a tech lab to a reactor on the starport. Queued up 4 Helions which is an odd choice..
Your little army is also in place by his ramp...but you are just waiting. not only that, but waiting in a spot he can see you.
10:30 - You shoulda won this fight. You Move Commanded up instead of attack Command. When you pulled back to kite the zealots, you wrapped around the ramp, allowing the stalkers to still fire at you from the top.
And most importantly, You had no stim and no concussive shells because you didn't repair your tech lab.
10:49 - Back home you have 4 marines and 2 helions, Why attack and build those if you weren't rallying them up to the fight?
Your Starport has existed for 5 minutes and not produced a single unit.
11:18 - Now you're massively queueing units...except SCVs which you've stopped making. Build More production facilities.
11:31 - You're expanding, this is very late. I would have expanded immediately after holding those Zealots at the 7 minute mark.
14:00 - This attack is just insane. You saw the stargate several minutes ago, You saw 3 WarpGates several minutes ago, you knew he had atleast 2 Stalkers back then.
You don't even need to know which units he made to be able to tell that 8 marines and 5 helions will lose.
You've also just seen a proxy robo facility by your base with 2 cannons.
15:52 - Remember at 11:30 when you started building your 2nd CC? It's been done forever, its still in your base.
Also, you're producing Zero units.
You have 2800 minerals and 1000 Gas
16:40 - You've ordered the construction of 10 Turrets....I can't even begin to outline that things wrong with that.
17:49 - you're kind of staring at a basically undefended Proxy Robo and SG...All you have to do is walk behind the the pylon and kill it, the cannons are only on 1 side. Landed vikings have 7 range...Just kill the pylon.
You're incredibly worried about an undefended proxy that's made nothing.
18:25 - Supply blocked...oh, you've also got *13* Idle SCVs. Ctrl-f1 selects all idle workers...do that throughout the game and send them back to work
21:45 - Why'd you keep attacking? 5 feet behind you is enough Missle Turrets to destroy the Imperial Fleet. Retreat.
You were also still move commanding your army in the middle of this fight. The advantage ot vikings in these fights is huge range, but you moved them right in.
21:53 - Again...Range...you've let the vikings get too close, so those turrets oyu spent so much on are doing nothing.
You've just letting the maruaders and helions get cleaned up.
22:20 - Luckily he's an idiot, he loses his Voids for no reason.
22:44 - You've got 8 mining SCvs. You have 23 SCVs...but 8 are mining. Also, but now you should have about 60
23:00 - your main is mined out...His is probably mined out too. Has he Expanded? when was the last time you checked if he had?
24:00 - Stop using the move command. If you don't know what is ahead of you, Attack-Move. You've lost 3 fights because of this.
26:00 - You keep attacking knowing full well you've got an insufficient force. You knew he had at minimum 2 Void rays there...2 vikings lose to 2 Voids...and that was like 2 minutes ago, so he's got more now.
26:30 - You've got 7 air units queued up...Make another StarPort!
28:30 - Vikings engaged correctly...look at how much more effective that is... Vikings back at max range, The voids have no idea what to do, so while they're attacking ground stuff, you're slaughtering them.
So in the end...did you really Lose to 'Voidrays'?
Things that will get you out of Bronze:
1) SCVs! - Build them ALWAYS, and make sure they are mining! (Ctrl-F1 to select them all and send them back to work)
2) Production Facilities! - He had 3 Stargates...why do you only have 1 Starport? He had 3 Warpgates, why do you only have 1 Barracks?
3) Spend your money! - This relates to point 2, If you have idle production and have money...spend it...if you all your production facilities building and you STILL have money...build More production facilities.
4) Attack-Move! - When you move-command into a fight, he's getting off free hits on you. You've got to attack move in and use the range advantage Terran has.
5) Expand! - You didn't start mining on your 2nd base until the 1st was out of minerals.
6) Retreat/Don't Attack! - If you're losing...retreat. And If there's no way to win, Do not attack in the first place.
7) Scout! - You literally did not scout once in the entire 33 minute long game.
8) Practice multitasking! - You'd start something and totally forget about it. you built a Command Centre and used it 8 minutes later...you built a StarPort and used it 5 minutes later. You're investing in these things...if you're investing in them, you gotta use them.
But yeah, overall...don't think of 'what counters this?' at this level of play. You could have won that game with Mass Marauder and literally ignored the voidrays if you felt like it. At one point he had 3 Voids, and you had 2800 minerals and 1000 gas.
What would the game look like if 28 Marauders just appeared in your army? You'd have killed every building he had before 3 voids could stop you.
Only the flip side, what if he never went Voids? They cost 250min 150gas.
When you had the first big engagement, he had 9 Void Rays, 3 stalkers, 2 Zealots. 2 sentries. (2925m/1700g)
Would you have done any better vs. 21 Stalkers and 6 Sentries? (Same cost) you still woulda lost the fight.
Just Macro
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Against protoss, MMM is a very strong unit composition. Especially at this stage. Add vikings in for colossus. Ghosts for high templar (but to be honest, I didn't really see any high templar play until like platinum league). MMM is the bread and butter of any terran. It is like the style that every terran should know how to do well. Sure, some might be good at using banshees, others might be good at tanks in certain situations. But MMM is just something that needs to be in your blood as a terran player.
For protoss, if there is a larger number of stalkers and/or colossus, you need to add in more marauders. If there is a large number of zealots (ESPECIALLY with leg speed) and/or immortals you need more marines. It is a given also if there are colossus to cut some medivac production for vikings. REMEMBER STIM AND COMBAT SHIELD AND CONCUSSIVE SHELLS. All of those are REQUIRED if you go MMM. No excuses.
Also do NOT be afraid to add in more production buildings. You are NOT over doing it. I remember getting that feeling that adding more barracks was kinda just not right. I dont know why... i think a lot of new players get that feeling. But really, do not be afraid to have like 6+ rax running, all with add ons. especially once you get your bases saturated. And do ANYTHING to get that money down. If it goes up, then ok, you screwed up on your macro a little bit. But just start doing things. once you get 1000 minerals there is nothing wrong with putting down 4 more rax just to spend it. At least that money is going somewhere.
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After watching your second game.... good job! I see a HUGE improvement from your first game. The opening, while not perfect, looked so much more solid than your first one.
Your SCV production was pretty good in the first few minutes or so, but you really should be constantly making them.
Your queueing is still pretty out of control. At one point you had 4 barracks with a full queue of units. That's more than enough minerals to build an expo command center.
Another thing I would like to note: there were 2 battles where you killed his army, but you were left with a tiny army afterwards. You still sent your remaining army in. With such a small army, there is almost a 100% chance you're going to just throw those units away. If you kill his army and only have a few units left, try to bring your army back so ensure you have as big an army as possible.
At one point you had a marine and marauder just sitting there near the zerg base. If you're going to have them out, try to at least take the watch towers.
I would try to work on more worker production, take an earlier third, and if you do find yourself queueing up so many units, make more unit producing structures!
Great improvement from the first game, keep it up!
Edit: I like that you got your 1/1 upgrades for your bio. Once you get that armory, you had the money to keep those upgrades pumping. Marines are SO good with upgrades
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EPT
