EPTHow to regain air dominance in TvT
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
Landing vikings is a good idea. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On July 24 2011 17:14 OriginalBeast wrote: Is there a way to win on the ground vs tanks with vikings and possibly marines/ other ground stuff? w/o completely diverting my tech to get ghosts with nuke Landing vikings is a good idea. Well if he has a lot of air then you should have a slight advantage on the ground or force an advantage on the ground and force a situation where he has to drop his viking down and so you can kill them. Only way to beat marine tank viking is to go marine tank viking yourself lol. I dont know why you go mass marauder in tvt, it pretty bad considering if they dont see you going tanks, the logical choice is to just spam marines. | ||
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
On July 24 2011 17:18 SheaR619 wrote: Well if he has a lot of air then you should have a slight advantage on the ground or force an advantage on the ground and force a situation where he has to drop his viking down and so you can kill them. Only way to beat marine tank viking is to go marine tank viking yourself lol. I dont know why you go mass marauder in tvt, it pretty bad considering if they dont see you going tanks, the logical choice is to just spam marines. mass marauder is good vs mech. mech is good vs marine tank. I scout with an early banshee to see what he is doing and transition to either, that banshee has no cloak. also vikings are not really cutting into his army count more than they are cutting into yours. Plus just because you have like 10 or 20 more food you can't just A-move into tanks. | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
Voila, you've even'd out the viking count. | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
On July 24 2011 17:32 Vore210 wrote: Make a few thors, make sure the other guy doesnt see them, bait his vikings with your small number of vikings, make the thors attack the viking ball. Voila, you've even'd out the viking count. Makes sence, I wonder how an engagement would work if I target fired seiged tanks with my tanks plus thors then I used like hellions to clean up marines. It might by pass the entire air battle all together. However as far as taking back air control this would certainly work. | ||
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winadil
74 Posts
Plus blue flames give you decent map control | ||
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On July 24 2011 17:14 OriginalBeast wrote: Is there a way to win on the ground vs tanks with vikings and possibly marines/ other ground stuff? w/o completely diverting my tech to get ghosts with nuke Landing vikings is a good idea. As said earlier, thor is the only trick that can allow you to regain the air dominance without making just more vikings. But I don't think ghost cost that much, you don't need cloack or moebius reactor, you just use the fact that nuke have more range that the siege tanks. By the way as you have maraudeur production the cost is just 150/50+200/100 for each ghost + 100/100 for each nuke. The first nuke cost you 450/250 (sth like 2 tanks and a marauder), but is the only reliable way to break a tank contain without running into tank fire. | ||
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aaycumi
England265 Posts
Want to catch up in the viking battle then gonna have to land troops in the opponent's main and destroy starports. Build a Raven or two for PDDs and build at least 1 more viking more than your opponent and you will eventually catch up. Afraid that TvT tank viking battles are purely a matter of economy and positioning, if you are losing in the viking or tank production there are things that can be done to even it out but not with both. | ||
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On July 24 2011 17:22 OriginalBeast wrote: mass marauder is good vs mech. mech is good vs marine tank. I scout with an early banshee to see what he is doing and transition to either, that banshee has no cloak. also vikings are not really cutting into his army count more than they are cutting into yours. Plus just because you have like 10 or 20 more food you can't just A-move into tanks. I think your understanding of unit compositions is a bit flawed. Regardless, replay or it didn't happen. | ||
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FroZen(-_-)
United States183 Posts
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Marsupian
Netherlands455 Posts
If you really want to win the air battle you can add a thor or two and start building your own vikings (keep them safe with marines and/or thors). Another option is to go hellion/tank (with possibly a few thors). Hellions should absorb quite a few tank volleys and roast plenty of marines while your tanks get in positions. Also try to get hellions in his base to roast marines. The best solution is probably to not lose any air battles and keep up viking production. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On July 24 2011 23:43 kubiks wrote: As said earlier, thor is the only trick that can allow you to regain the air dominance without making just more vikings. But I don't think ghost cost that much, you don't need cloack or moebius reactor, you just use the fact that nuke have more range that the siege tanks. By the way as you have maraudeur production the cost is just 150/50+200/100 for each ghost + 100/100 for each nuke. The first nuke cost you 450/250 (sth like 2 tanks and a marauder), but is the only reliable way to break a tank contain without running into tank fire. False. Nuke has range of 12, tanks 13. EDIT: The 25% part of the nuke must have range 14 so technically yea they out range. However, moving a siege line back one tank per nuke is silly and horribly inefficient | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
1-3 thors in your mech composition allows you to negate any banshees that try to force an unsiege on your army, as long as you actually micro your units and don't leave thors at the front of your army with 1A. Later on in the game, you will need 3-4 reactored starports if your opponent already has vikings and gets out battlecruisers. It's entirely scouting/game dependent on when you begin mass producing vikings along with mech, as before the point where battlecruisers enter the game, you want all of your supply into mech so you can compete with their army if they are going pure bio marauders or mech themselves. thor + viking + raven lategame is stronger than battlecruiser + vikings if you micro correctly with thors getting volleys on vikings and then moving your vikings back out of range while the BCS come in. If you are going mass marauders...i'm assuming your opponent was going mech because otherwise marine+tank usually rapes mass marauders. If that is the case, you'll want to start accumulating vikings when you are transitioning into BCS or when you want to get a few cloaked banshees. It's all really dependent on scouting. You can of course play straight up viking accumulation where you keep making them from an early on point in the game and that is perfectly fine too as you'll always have an air advantage, but it's beneficial for you to learn how to play from both sides of the coin, having total air advantage, and having almost zero to none. Just remember when you mass accumulate vikings blindly for air advantage you are vulnerable on the ground because if you're opponent is smart he can mass marauders or mech with a thor or two and he will quite possibly kill you straight up. And in those scenarios all of those vikings that you so dearly made for air control will be forced to land to help add to your ground supply army, in which most of your grounded vikings will most likely die resetting the viking count. What i'm getting at is, it's a myth that you must have 100% air control 100% of the time in TvT. Once you learn the deeper parts of the match-up you'll find out you can play with or without air control if you scan for BC timings, scan for tech labbed starports, and use turrets/thors appropriately. The simple answer to your question was to simply make 3-4 reactored starports mid-game to lategame and start cranking out vikings. But I wanted to point out the misconception that air control is a necessity in TvT. | ||
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saefok
United States21 Posts
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CapnAmerica
United States508 Posts
On July 25 2011 01:17 Squigly wrote: False. Nuke has range of 12, tanks 13. EDIT: The 25% part of the nuke must have range 14 so technically yea they out range. However, moving a siege line back one tank per nuke is silly and horribly inefficient When you launch a nuke your opponent has to move his units back or risk losing them. It's never by just one siege tank. Also, your ranges look off from what I know about nuking tank lines. Nukes CANNOT be stopped at max range by siege tanks so your only option as the tank player is to unsiege and move back enough that you feel safe and immediately resiege before you get rushed. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10360 Posts
Just get Thors, which have the same attack range as a Viking's sight range So basically, he cannot get sight with his Vikings to hit your tanks with his tanks without his vikings being hit by your Thors. I also like to float around my Barracks (the first one i make, since i'm going mech) and sometimes build a 2nd one too (for later orbitals in case the barracks dies) for extra vision, and because if the vikings aren't on hold position sometimes it lures them into your thors | ||
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