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Hey all, I'm imjorman a platinum terran player, and I have a problem. I started off playing SC2 as my "main squeeze" in December (bought it on release, but only because of hype and I love midnight releases lol) and qualified at 100 - bronze (oh yeah, that good  ). Ever since, I knew I was meant to play starcraft. This community is spectacular and this is THE game to play. Well I've developed my skills a bit to get to the level I am at now, but here's my main problem: I've only learned to do Trump's 2 rax/stime/expand. I used it in all three match ups simply relying on being able to out produce my opponent in the later stages of the game.
Here's my problem: this is all I know how to do. I can still regularly beat my upper platinum opponents, but I can't get much further than that. So my question is, "What can I do to further develop my game beyond being that guy who MMM's his way in all match-ups?" As you can imagine, MMM against zerg kinda sucks now with infestors being good and banelings being a solid unit (not complaining against balance, more complimenting them). MMM is hard countered by siege tanks, and is fine against protoss.
Honestly, I (think) I just need to learn tactics for two other races but I've dug myself into this place where I cannot seem to break away from my habits of 2 raxing all day everyday. Any tips? I feel like I could be a solid player with just breaking this nasty habit I've found myself developing.
I can throw up some replays if that would help anyone.
Thanks so much Liquid!
edit: typo
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MLG released all the replayed from the tourny, just pick a player and start stealing builds. There isn't really a 'flash' build that requires 20,000 apm to do, so even builds that super fast Korean pros like MMA do can be executed at the lower levels. If you need a ZvT build, I'd recomend a reactor hellion expand as a solid opening that really works on any map (save for maybe shakuras).
edit: the wiki page was not helpful as it did not list the actual build:
10 depot
12 gas
12 rax
upon rax finishing: factory, orbital, and one marine.
marine finished: reactor, pull off gas
reactor/factory done: swap the add on, build 4-6 hellions.
command center as soon as minerals allow, keep pumping marines and pressure with hellions.
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Hey jorman!
I think the fastest way would be, in order:
1) Obtain replays of high level players, watch them execute the build you want to do. There's actually some strategy threads with builds and replays so that helps.
2) Practice the build against a 'dummy' opponent just to get the build timings down. (a very easy computer, for example).
3) Just go out and play ladder and do the strategy. It'll be painful as you'll undoubtedly start off at a "lower" power level than your well practiced 2 rax but given enough time you'll be able to execute this newfound strategy just as well. Or better!
(sounds like your 'next step' is getting siege tanks in against both zerg and terran)
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You answered you're own question. Seriously, what do you expect people to say? The only answer is that you do in fact need to diversify your builds. Thats it. How do you find them? Liquipedia. Replays. Day9 dailies. This post is kind of extraneous.
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If you ever follow Day[9] dailies he did a whole week about stealing pro builds to use. I can't remember the specific episodes but its been very recent. Check out his day[9] daily thread with all the episodes and you can probably find it easily. I recommend checking that out. Day[9] knows his shiet.
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Day9 will help you a lot. So will searching the strat forum for terran builds.
Liquipedia is pretty dated but it has a good rudimentary source of builds.
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Thanks for the responses guys! I know I just need to dig in and start practicing stuff, I'm just kinda scared : / LOL
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It's probably a fair idea to look at strong follow ups to the 2 Rax. Like Trump said, working in Siege Tanks is probably a natural step. Or is your issue that the 2 Rax is no longer able to get you where you want to be in a game? The way you phrased it, it sounds like you just need to look at other midgame options to MMM. If you've got a solid opening no need to throw it away, work with it. All the people pointing to Day9 just reminds me that he strongly advocates taking one build and getting really damn good at it. Sounds like you're well on the way to that so don't throw away the work ey?
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Try some different builds, such as:
Vs Zerg:
11-12 double rax bunker push leading to marine-tank
or Synysters double expansion leading to mass 0:3 thors,
Vs Protoss:
Thors Banshee Marine Raven push at 11 minutes
or Synysters anti collosus build
Vs Terran : iEchoic 2 Factory 2 Starport, BFH + banshee
Sure you may lose quite a bit as you learn their strengths and weaknesses but thats part of the fun isn't it?
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It's also important to remember that the first time you do something, it'll be absolutely terrible. So don't just write down supply numbers and jump into a ladder game because you'll probably get demolished and your money will start to run high. Instead practice against very easy computers and in custom games with random people, or preferably, practice partners, until you feel totally comfortable.
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im around your level as well and i don't have any super-specific timings for my builds, but at the very least you need to incorporate more units in your build. e.g. siege tanks in TvZ is a must. I usually keep them on a separate hotkey from my MMM. Also in TvP definitely start incorporating ghosts. Their EMPs are ridiculously good against protoss.
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On June 11 2011 12:24 LtDeng wrote:
It's probably a fair idea to look at strong follow ups to the 2 Rax. Like Trump said, working in Siege Tanks is probably a natural step. Or is your issue that the 2 Rax is no longer able to get you where you want to be in a game? The way you phrased it, it sounds like you just need to look at other midgame options to MMM. If you've got a solid opening no need to throw it away, work with it. All the people pointing to Day9 just reminds me that he strongly advocates taking one build and getting really damn good at it. Sounds like you're well on the way to that so don't throw away the work ey?
True enough that my 2 rax opening is pretty solid, but I guess I'm either like afraid to learn a new transition or just don't want to and would rather start fresh. IDK I've had it in my head for a few weeks now that I need to learn a new thing but I guess something's holding me back : /
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Generally instead of asking others to find the builds for you, you should be watching the pros play and see what gets you excited, most builds people post are builds they have a wonderful time doing and win a lot with, like when I played terran I won a lot of games where I 2raxed (never bunker rushed cause I was a real man), but my other terran friend was all about the fast expands into mass bio (against zerg it was unheard of lol). Basically what might be right for you may not be right for some, look for what gets you excited to play a match up and then ask how they did it. Or do your own research, that is how you will grow the most as a player.
Yes I can take my own advice (ZvZ coinflip thread <--) the difference is that I am not looking for a 1-hit wonder build order, I want to know how to avoid or at least use my builds for my good in the ZvZ match up...
This is completely different, terrans who find they are 1-trick ponies lose interest fast, if no other builds are working I would suggest changing races for awhile (so you can lose a bunch get lower on the ladder then go back to terran and learn a different build against less then optimal opponents compared to your standards)
Also just winging a build (with good timings etc etc) can help you win games if its solid but unorthodox enough.
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I'll tell you one thing. 9-10 minute 36 marine 2 tank timing pushes are a headache to deal with as zerg. I have to play my games assuming that will happen or I lose.
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On June 11 2011 12:39 Kornholi0 wrote:
Generally instead of asking others to find the builds for you, you should be watching the pros play and see what gets you excited, most builds people post are builds they have a wonderful time doing and win a lot with, like when I played terran I won a lot of games where I 2raxed (never bunker rushed cause I was a real man), but my other terran friend was all about the fast expands into mass bio (against zerg it was unheard of lol). Basically what might be right for you may not be right for some, look for what gets you excited to play a match up and then ask how they did it. Or do your own research, that is how you will grow the most as a player.
Yes I can take my own advice (ZvZ coinflip thread <--) the difference is that I am not looking for a 1-hit wonder build order, I want to know how to avoid or at least use my builds for my good in the ZvZ match up...
This is completely different, terrans who find they are 1-trick ponies lose interest fast, if no other builds are working I would suggest changing races for awhile (so you can lose a bunch get lower on the ladder then go back to terran and learn a different build against less then optimal opponents compared to your standards)
Also just winging a build (with good timings etc etc) can help you win games if its solid but unorthodox enough.
I feel like there was a misunderstanding here. I'm NOT looking for the one trick pony build. my thread is based around the fact that I want to get AWAY from that kind of thing. That's how I got to plat, and I want to branch out and actually become a good player.
In addition, I'm not looking for people to find builds for me, I'm petitioning to people how they break away from builds their comfortable with and get better. This is a "help me get better thread" (IMO the point of the strategy forums in a lot of cases) rather than a "LOL BE GOOGLE FOR ME" thread.
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just a tip when practicing with siege tanks, if you don't want to wait around for them to get into position and siege them, you can always hold down SHIFT, Right Click where you want them to go and E. This makes them automatically go to that location and siege up. note that if you have a lot of siege tanks though this trick doesn't work as well, but when you're doing a tank push its a great help
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Hi imjorman,
I used to have the same issue where I only knew one way to play. The best way to get comfortable with a build is to practice is 20+ times against a computer until you know you can execute it properly and then grab somebody out of chat to try it against. When you do it a few times against real people you'll start to see what things it is susceptible to and how it can work around it. All good builds have weaknesses that can be handled in some way or another, so if there's a huge gaping hole in the plan then it's likely to not a be a good build. Don't feel bad about having a go-to build that you're the most comfortable with though 
Places to find builds:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/user/ForceSC2strategy
Watching replays
Day9 also made a daily about how to steal and refine a build that you might find useful:
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-289-newbie-tuesday-refining-a-stolen-build-5062263
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Maybe you should learn to mech if your getting tired of standard bio or your stim expo build. Mech can be really fun because you have hellions doing so much damage to light and thors or tanks doing a lot of damage to armored.
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Having one build in platinum is not a terrible place to be really. Just start practicing another build, and it will come quicker then you think. Since december you have really been developing mechanics and game sense, not so much perfecting any build, and that is why you have gotten to be as good as you have. If you apply yourself to any different build, you will be able to pick up the mechanics and the timings much more quickly then you think.
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On June 11 2011 12:46 imjorman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 12:39 Kornholi0 wrote:
Generally instead of asking others to find the builds for you, you should be watching the pros play and see what gets you excited, most builds people post are builds they have a wonderful time doing and win a lot with, like when I played terran I won a lot of games where I 2raxed (never bunker rushed cause I was a real man), but my other terran friend was all about the fast expands into mass bio (against zerg it was unheard of lol). Basically what might be right for you may not be right for some, look for what gets you excited to play a match up and then ask how they did it. Or do your own research, that is how you will grow the most as a player.
Yes I can take my own advice (ZvZ coinflip thread <--) the difference is that I am not looking for a 1-hit wonder build order, I want to know how to avoid or at least use my builds for my good in the ZvZ match up...
This is completely different, terrans who find they are 1-trick ponies lose interest fast, if no other builds are working I would suggest changing races for awhile (so you can lose a bunch get lower on the ladder then go back to terran and learn a different build against less then optimal opponents compared to your standards)
Also just winging a build (with good timings etc etc) can help you win games if its solid but unorthodox enough. I feel like there was a misunderstanding here. I'm NOT looking for the one trick pony build. my thread is based around the fact that I want to get AWAY from that kind of thing. That's how I got to plat, and I want to branch out and actually become a good player. In addition, I'm not looking for people to find builds for me, I'm petitioning to people how they break away from builds their comfortable with and get better. This is a "help me get better thread" (IMO the point of the strategy forums in a lot of cases) rather than a "LOL BE GOOGLE FOR ME" thread.
I know you are not looking for a 1-trick pony build, what I am saying is that before you come here saying that you are stuck on a 1-trick pony build, you should at least discover what type of playstyle you enjoy and that makes you jizz your pants when you see it done professionally, and then once you find that playstyle, then you can ask how to shape and form the meta-game builds to fit your playstyle. We can't tell you what you like, you gotta figure that out for yourself. Asking for help you'll just get people's responses where they tell you their own 1-trick pony builds and then you'll have 3-4 1-trick pony builds.
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EPT
