After watching Boes fail cannon rushing for the 10th time, I've decided to write a small guide on how to properly do the manliest cannon rush in team games.
What is the BOSS Cannon Rush?
BOSS cannon rush is when you make pylons that wall off behind the opponent's workers and then make walled-off cannons. It's only effective against T and P opponents, specifically P opponents (since they can't lift off).
Like this:
This probe... is THE MAN.
Hidden CR vs BOSS CR
Hidden cannon rushes suck. They are easily defended if scouted, and almost everyone scouts for them once they see your forge. They often require more resources, cannons, and time. The BOSS cannon rush is in your face. It screams "I don't care what you do, or that you see this, you will watch my cannons go up and kill you." It is the epitome of manly cheese, almost as manly as making gates right next to someone's nexus.
Do not underestimate the crippling psychological blow that the BOSS cannon rush deals. It's one thing to die to cannons you don't scout, it's another thing to die to cannons warping in while your units sit helpless and their probe laughs in his comfortable walled off cave.
Basic Build Order
1. pylon on 9 2. send your probe to desired cannon rush location 3. forge on 12 4. save money for blocking pylons
How to execute
1. Make sure your probe looks as innocent as possible. You're not going to make any pylons until you have 300-400 minerals anyway, so try to look like a normal scout.
2. Stay within his vision so he doesn't send a chaser probe/scv to follow you around, as those are annoying and make your BOSS CR harder to execute. The more noob you look by not moving your probe around, the better. I tend to just park the probe a few squares away from his nexus.
3. The first pylon you make should be the one that walls the smallest gap. Example on 6:00 position on Toxic Slums, in order of build:
Ditching the "follower"
Most players send a worker to follow your probe. These are annoying, but if you can evade it from blocking your pylon quite easily.
A few matrixes away from where you want to build your first blocking pylon (the "1" spot in the above picture) you hit "S" and let the worker attack you, then you zoom away from it and build the pylon. Make sure you build it so you end up on the right side of the pylon (in this case/picture, below the pylon). Then simply build pylons #2 and #3 (and when necessary, #4).
The timing on ditching the worker might take you a few tries of practice but it's not hard. If you properly execute it you will get enough separation from the enemy worker to build.
Backup Blocking Pylons
In Brood War, you could remake a building immediately after it was killed by melee units, which would re-block. You can't do this in SC2. But you can make a pylon one matrix behind. Take this into consideration when you build. Example:
Notice the back up pylon, which is in green. This can be made immediately after the opponent's workers kill pylon #3.
Example Pylon Placements
Ideally, you want to choose a location that is wall-able using only 3 pylons. Waiting for 400 minerals for 4 pylons is a bit scarier, since often you can't properly ditch the following worker sometimes. Backup blocker pylons are in green, where possible.
They're pretty easy to figure out, here are some examples:
This will allow me to play random again! My protoss was slipping but with this solid build it shall become my strongest race. Thank you mister Hot_Bid!
Possible on Xel Naga also. Great in PvP but any decent toss will drop a forge or build a pylon/gateway in the position of the "boss" cannon rush. protip, dont overreact and try to kill the pylons. re expand or scout early and drop a forge yourself (pvp) or if you are T just lift off, if you Z, lol as he cant cannon your creep.
This was an extremely well written article. And I am glad you have taken the time hot bid to post and educate us on the... how you say.... "Cannon Rush". It is very informative, and I indeed have learned a lot. Thank you, maybe next you could teach us the 2 gateway proxy tactic as I believe I am having massive troubles trying to pull that one off.
On May 31 2011 19:25 epoc wrote: Wait how do you counter it if the enemy does perfect behind minerals cr?
you don't, that's why it's BOSS
Why doesnt every toss use it in gsl then?
You mostly 9 scout in pvp, and you'll probably notice something is wrong, and you need to pounce on the probe and kill it. In tvp, you can lift off, and against zerg, you cant normally build there cause there's creep.
I remember the day this happened to me in bw, it was on that desert 2v2 map, he could wall himself off with one pylon, and my partner was bsing to make things worse lol. anyway, went 15 nexus so I used my expo and actually won from there!
You should make a list of maps where this can be done on the ladder. I believe it's possible on Xel Naga and Shakuras, not sure if there are any other maps suitable for this.
This reminds me of when Day[9] explained how Tasteless had the most annoying cannon placements ever. That he would ask his mother before he went to bed 'can you check under my bed for Tasteless' cannons morphing in?' :D
there was a thread about this a few months ago. though it only discussed PvP. Depends on the map, but for the most part this will not pay off PvT. You are forced to cut too many probes to afford all this stuff before the marine comes out.
PvP the only counter is to pull probes behind your mineral line and fight BEFORE the Pylons go up. Yes in other words, you have to know this exist, you have to expect it, and you may have to react blindly. There is no other counter. Throwing down a forge as soon as you scout will not save you. Why? Because this type of rush does not require a hidden pylon+cannon. It hits much earlier than a normal cannon rush.
edit: the build order discussed (with video) on said thread a few months ago was 10 Pylon 10 Forge o not make Probes, wait till 275 Minerals* Make 3 Pylons for wall Will have exactly 150 Minerals when 1st Pylon finishes. Make 1 Cannon *Resume Probe production*
p.s. this is viable in 1v1 maps too, not just teams.
Wrong section :D, were you the one that taught mr. huk his amazing cannon rush skills? Zergs tt;; when they see him on ladder and never 15hatch anymore!
that is just seriously stupid... because an expansion cost 400 for toss and terran, 300 for zerg IF IT'S FINISHED if not you just lose a small amount of minerals... but you spend 750 minerals for that cheese... the result just dont worth the cost of that... because you are just far behind after that
On May 31 2011 22:05 Zeyro wrote: that is just seriously stupid... because an expansion cost 400 for toss and terran, 300 for zerg.. you spend 750 minerals for that cheese... the result just dont worth the cost of that... but yeah typically toss... try to cheese up to GM
Bronzers gonna hate. You will be hated for the eternity hot_bid, you just created a legion of tasteless'lings trying to steal nerds ladder points.
On May 31 2011 22:05 Zeyro wrote: that is just seriously stupid... because an expansion cost 400 for toss and terran, 300 for zerg.. you spend 750 minerals for that cheese... the result just dont worth the cost of that...
On May 31 2011 22:55 canSore wrote: canon rushing is nice and all, but it only works at lower levels. Eventually you will have to adopt a more standard play.
Tell that to Inca and Sangho, see what they have to say
On May 31 2011 19:11 FataLe wrote: any counter? sorry, counter for P?
Put your own pylon in one of the pylon spots before he can and then cancel it to let workers attack whatever is building inside? IDK man its a BOSS Cannon Rush their ain't anything you can do !!
Thanks Hot_Bid for making my PvP on ladder more frustrating than it has been since bronze league >.<
As someone that plays way too many team games in his free time I can tell you that this will not work vs a player in team games that I like to call "having a pulse." Someone that understands how to build in situations like these. In some of your screen shots it looks like it takes 3 pylons to wall yourself in at the start, does the Protoss have 300 minerals that fast? Plus once I see the first pylon go down, I would bring some scvs to help block the remaining areas of the "closed in location."
Either way isn't this a strategy and should be in the strategy forum? O_Oa
On May 31 2011 23:43 Nizzy wrote: As someone that plays way too many team games in his free time I can tell you that this will not work vs a player in team games that I like to call "having a pulse." Someone that understands how to build in situations like these. In some of your screen shots it looks like it takes 3 pylons to wall yourself in at the start, does the Protoss have 300 minerals that fast? Plus once I see the first pylon go down, I would bring some scvs to help block the remaining areas of the "closed in location."
Either way isn't this a strategy and should be in the strategy forum? O_Oa
You gotta understand how early in the game this rush comes along. There is no gate, there are no additional pylons needed in your base, means you basically will build those wall-in-pylons faster than the cybernetics core in a normal build.
Of course a player who is on top and knows its coming would be able to prevent the 2 additional pylons...but on the other hand..you wait for 300 mins and you place those pylons in a matter of perhaps 2-3 seconds...
Highly unlikely that someone who does not suspect this will be able to pull probes in time after the first pylon get warped in.
The "Pointy-Haired-Boss" Cannon Rush is not considered among the "Special Tectics" in Euroope. Maybe we lack the specific cubicle-induced mindsets for this.
I *do* hope however that this build makes it into the PvP strategy choices so that we have at least have one. Maybe as early as MLG next weekend. :-D
One last question regarding the casting language discussions of the last days, since I am not a native speaker: Is it mature langauge to say "Toss love to cannon rush their girl-friends" or is that rather immature?
On May 31 2011 19:00 Hot_Bid wrote: How to Cannon Rush Like A BOSS
After watching Boes fail cannon rushing for the 10th time, I've decided to write a small guide on how to properly do the manliest cannon rush in team games.
What is the BOSS Cannon Rush?
BOSS cannon rush is when you make pylons that wall off behind the opponent's workers and then make walled-off cannons. It's only effective against T and P opponents, specifically P opponents (since they can't lift off).
Like this:
This probe... is THE MAN.
Hidden CR vs BOSS CR
Hidden cannon rushes suck. They are easily defended if scouted, and almost everyone scouts for them once they see your forge. They often require more resources, cannons, and time. The BOSS cannon rush is in your face. It screams "I don't care what you do, or that you see this, you will watch my cannons go up and kill you." It is the epitome of manly cheese, almost as manly as making gates right next to someone's nexus.
Do not underestimate the crippling psychological blow that the BOSS cannon rush deals. It's one thing to die to cannons you don't scout, it's another thing to die to cannons warping in while your units sit helpless and their probe laughs in his comfortable walled off cave.
Basic Build Order
1. pylon on 9 2. send your probe to desired cannon rush location 3. forge on 12 4. save money for blocking pylons
How to execute
1. Make sure your probe looks as innocent as possible. You're not going to make any pylons until you have 300-400 minerals anyway, so try to look like a normal scout.
2. Stay within his vision so he doesn't send a chaser probe/scv to follow you around, as those are annoying and make your BOSS CR harder to execute. The more noob you look by not moving your probe around, the better. I tend to just park the probe a few squares away from his nexus.
3. The first pylon you make should be the one that walls the smallest gap. Example on 6:00 position on Toxic Slums, in order of build:
Ditching the "follower"
Most players send a worker to follow your probe. These are annoying, but if you can evade it from blocking your pylon quite easily.
A few matrixes away from where you want to build your first blocking pylon (the "1" spot in the above picture) you hit "S" and let the worker attack you, then you zoom away from it and build the pylon. Make sure you build it so you end up on the right side of the pylon (in this case/picture, below the pylon). Then simply build pylons #2 and #3 (and when necessary, #4).
The timing on ditching the worker might take you a few tries of practice but it's not hard. If you properly execute it you will get enough separation from the enemy worker to build.
Backup Blocking Pylons
In Brood War, you could remake a building immediately after it was killed by melee units, which would re-block. You can't do this in SC2. But you can make a pylon one matrix behind. Take this into consideration when you build. Example:
Notice the back up pylon, which is in green. This can be made immediately after the opponent's workers kill pylon #3.
Example Pylon Placements
Ideally, you want to choose a location that is wall-able using only 3 pylons. Waiting for 400 minerals for 4 pylons is a bit scarier, since often you can't properly ditch the following worker sometimes. Backup blocker pylons are in green, where possible.
They're pretty easy to figure out, here are some examples:
This is almost as manly as the time Bisu built two gateways in his opponents base in a televeised game.. and won.. i forget who it was against.. some chobo.. but it was sooo damn manly..
On June 01 2011 00:06 stk01001 wrote: This is almost as manly as the time Bisu built two gateways in his opponents base in a televeised game.. and won.. i forget who it was against.. some chobo.. but it was sooo damn manly..
pokju i believe. I tried doing that in sc2 and it's actually pretty easy to pull off in pvp
I don't know how this could work often enough to be worth it- I'm a silver scrub and even I know that any scouting probe behind my mineral line is a free kill.
In all seriousness, who doesn't pull workers to kill a scouting probe behind the mineral line?
On June 01 2011 00:08 zatic wrote: OP: Guide threads need replays. Please read the Strat forum guidelines. This is TL not some BGH forum. We have standards here.
On June 01 2011 00:08 zatic wrote: OP: Guide threads need replays. Please read the Strat forum guidelines. This is TL not some BGH forum. We have standards here.
Just ban plz, tired of these forum noobs... "nice guide bro"
On June 01 2011 00:06 stk01001 wrote: This is almost as manly as the time Bisu built two gateways in his opponents base in a televeised game.. and won.. i forget who it was against.. some chobo.. but it was sooo damn manly..
pokju i believe. I tried doing that in sc2 and it's actually pretty easy to pull off in pvp
Yeah pokju that was the last game he played because he quit after that embarrassment in the face of so much bisu manlyness
On June 01 2011 00:15 AveSharia wrote: I don't know how this could work often enough to be worth it- I'm a silver scrub and even I know that any scouting probe behind my mineral line is a free kill.
In all seriousness, who doesn't pull workers to kill a scouting probe behind the mineral line?
Everyone above silver. They can often escape by right clicking on a mineral and you just wasted a bunch of mining time.
On June 01 2011 00:08 zatic wrote: OP: Guide threads need replays. Please read the Strat forum guidelines. This is TL not some BGH forum. We have standards here.
Just ban plz, tired of these forum noobs... "nice guide bro"
Yeah I tried but there seems to be an error with the ban system, it says something about permission unsufficient or something.
Will have to talk to an admin about this I suppose.
On June 01 2011 00:31 zatic wrote: Yeah I tried but there seems to be an error with the ban system, it says something about permission unsufficient or something.
Will have to talk to an admin about this I suppose.
Yeah definitely need to fix that asap! lol
Nice guide Hot_Bid. I watched you boss it up with this rush on jp's stream yesterday. I'll have to try this out.
On June 01 2011 00:08 zatic wrote: OP: Guide threads need replays. Please read the Strat forum guidelines. This is TL not some BGH forum. We have standards here.
Just ban plz, tired of these forum noobs... "nice guide bro"
Yeah I tried but there seems to be an error with the ban system, it says something about permission unsufficient or something.
Will have to talk to an admin about this I suppose.
Haha this is hilarious :D
Did some cannon rushes but failed, obviously I'm not manly enough. It definitely doesn't work on all maps, so stick to the ones hotbid has outlined
On June 01 2011 00:15 AveSharia wrote: I don't know how this could work often enough to be worth it- I'm a silver scrub and even I know that any scouting probe behind my mineral line is a free kill.
In all seriousness, who doesn't pull workers to kill a scouting probe behind the mineral line?
Everyone above silver. They can often escape by right clicking on a mineral and you just wasted a bunch of mining time.
...That's fine, but it doesn't help this cannon rush survive.
On May 31 2011 23:43 Nizzy wrote: As someone that plays way too many team games in his free time I can tell you that this will not work vs a player in team games that I like to call "having a pulse." Someone that understands how to build in situations like these. In some of your screen shots it looks like it takes 3 pylons to wall yourself in at the start, does the Protoss have 300 minerals that fast? Plus once I see the first pylon go down, I would bring some scvs to help block the remaining areas of the "closed in location."
Either way isn't this a strategy and should be in the strategy forum? O_Oa
You gotta understand how early in the game this rush comes along. There is no gate, there are no additional pylons needed in your base, means you basically will build those wall-in-pylons faster than the cybernetics core in a normal build.
Of course a player who is on top and knows its coming would be able to prevent the 2 additional pylons...but on the other hand..you wait for 300 mins and you place those pylons in a matter of perhaps 2-3 seconds...
Highly unlikely that someone who does not suspect this will be able to pull probes in time after the first pylon get warped in.
And I'm telling you, I've seen it all and would know how to handle this the split second a probe comes into my base. Remember he would also have to have a pylon back at home to build a forge. We are talking 250 minerals just for that as well. Then the 300 minerals for pylons at my base. I just don't see this being effective vs strong players.
I've seen Much in BW perform the BOSS Cannon Rush. Can't remember the particulars; he had to improvise a little and I'm not sure it did him any good, but it sure confused the hell out of his opponent.
I'm doing this in PvP since the patch was released because I'm waiting for new builds which I can steal On Tal'darim+Shakuras I got my own FE build now though.
But I'm hoping that the Gigabyte final with its PvPs will revolutionize the Metagame.
I'm using both, BOSS cannon rush and hidden cannon rush :D Mixing it up!
On June 01 2011 01:03 MisteR wrote: I've seen Much in BW perform the BOSS Cannon Rush. Can't remember the particulars; he had to improvise a little and I'm not sure it did him any good, but it sure confused the hell out of his opponent.
I've been BOSS cannon rushed on fastest map before
I can't believe it. As a zerg i can't do such things... I think it's imbalanced! I can only spine rush my own base which is not a good idea above copper. Anyway, it seems i can not be a Boss because i don't play protoss
Immediately after the Cannons start building, you want to send a second Probe. This second Probe will help you scout what's coming and will also help you build additional outside buildings if needed.
Once the Cannon rush is 100% successful and you've killed off their Nexus / forced their Command Center to liftoff, use your Cannons to break your Pylon and free you Probe. Use this Probe to build in their main, continue cannoning, scouting, or take one of their expansions.
VS Terran: Almost all Terrans will simply liftoff and fly to the gold / their natural. You should try to pylon their expansion so they can't land their Command Center. Don't bother cannoning their expansion as it's too easy for them to liftoff and move to another base.
VS Protoss: A lot of Protoss players will simply save 400 and then expand. The great thing is you know this, and you can easily Cannon that spot too.
Pylon Jumping:
Despite being way harder than in Brood War, Pylon jumping is possible. Move your Probe slightly (about 1/2 a Probe's width) away from the Pylon you want to jump, and build a Cannon / Pylon on top of yourself. If you're lucky, the Probe will jump over the Pylon, allowing you go Cannon someone else / continue blocking way more quickly.
Also I disagree with the build order. 9 Pylon -> Chrono -> 10 Forge -> Scout is better imo. You don't need your Probe there that early and you only need 10 Probes to execute a fast Cannon rush.
On June 01 2011 03:45 Chill wrote: Also I disagree with the build order. 9 Pylon -> Chrono -> 10 Forge -> Scout is better imo. You don't need your Probe there that early and you only need 10 Probes to execute a fast Cannon rush.
I wish you could follow up with scouts in this game...
On June 01 2011 03:45 MusiK wrote: Easy terran counter. rather than orbital go pf. =]
anyway great read. Wish I was toss
There is a 4v4 PF rush build which is 11 refinery 11 refinery 11 engineering bay 11 PF. You will get 150/150 right as the engineering bay finishes. This stops 6 pools but will still lose to cannon rushes since you can't hit the cannons and you can't mine.
On May 31 2011 21:24 Derrida wrote: what if his probes/scvs are between pylons #1 and #2-3 attacking them and end up killing your probe?!?!
Ah! This is a rarely seen, INCREDIBLE followup to a failed cannon rush. Imagine that you only get 2 of the pylons down but you can't seal the third entrance off before he jams all his workers in there. You haven't placed a cannon behind his minerals and you can't seal the entrance and literally all his Probes are coming for you. What do you do?
You click a mineral outside of the passageway, letting your probe escape through all his workers. You then seal the entrance shut with a gateway, trapping all his workers behind his minerals and then cannon between his minerals and his nexus / command center. If a gateway doesn't fit, use multiple pylons, since he won't have the surface area necessary to break out from the inside.
If he lets you seal his workers behind his minerals, he's immediately dead in any team games.
Edit: Scenario 2: Often times if you get 2 pylons up and then lose your probe, players will tell all their workers to go back to mining, assuming they are safe. However, because you are smart and sent a second worker as soon as your cannon rush started, you shortly have a second probe arrive. Enter his base out of vision and run back behind the minerals, seal the door with a CANNON (not a pylon, in this case you should absolutely seal it with a cannon) and then cannon behind the minerals.
Immediately after the Cannons start building, you want to send a second Probe. This second Probe will help you scout what's coming and will also help you build additional outside buildings if needed.
Once the Cannon rush is 100% successful and you've killed off their Nexus / forced their Command Center to liftoff, use your Cannons to break your Pylon and free you Probe. Use this Probe to build in their main, continue cannoning, scouting, or take one of their expansions.
VS Terran: Almost all Terrans will simply liftoff and fly to the gold / their natural. You should try to pylon their expansion so they can't land their Command Center. Don't bother cannoning their expansion as it's too easy for them to liftoff and move to another base.
VS Protoss: A lot of Protoss players will simply save 400 and then expand. The great thing is you know this, and you can easily Cannon that spot too.
Pylon Jumping:
Despite being way harder than in Brood War, Pylon jumping is possible. Move your Probe slightly (about 1/2 a Probe's width) away from the Pylon you want to jump, and build a Cannon / Pylon on top of yourself. If you're lucky, the Probe will jump over the Pylon, allowing you go Cannon someone else / continue blocking way more quickly.
PvP i feel it's not worth trying to cannon rush their expo. it's as if the game is reset and you're trying to cannon rush them all over again. plus their probes aren't doing anything, they'll be more aware. depends on where they expoed too (some opponents i faced expo at ridiculous places).
Personally, I just 4gate for the easy win. 4gate is hard enough to deal with pvp, it becomes impossible to stop when you have a massive tech and economic lead.
In general, i disagree with your idea that "a lot of protoss players will simply save 400 and then expand". unless they're plat or lower, most players know they have to all in. expanding is not an option. If they were to expand, you should just 4gate, not try to cannon rush all over again.
Immediately after the Cannons start building, you want to send a second Probe. This second Probe will help you scout what's coming and will also help you build additional outside buildings if needed.
Once the Cannon rush is 100% successful and you've killed off their Nexus / forced their Command Center to liftoff, use your Cannons to break your Pylon and free you Probe. Use this Probe to build in their main, continue cannoning, scouting, or take one of their expansions.
VS Terran: Almost all Terrans will simply liftoff and fly to the gold / their natural. You should try to pylon their expansion so they can't land their Command Center. Don't bother cannoning their expansion as it's too easy for them to liftoff and move to another base.
VS Protoss: A lot of Protoss players will simply save 400 and then expand. The great thing is you know this, and you can easily Cannon that spot too.
Pylon Jumping:
Despite being way harder than in Brood War, Pylon jumping is possible. Move your Probe slightly (about 1/2 a Probe's width) away from the Pylon you want to jump, and build a Cannon / Pylon on top of yourself. If you're lucky, the Probe will jump over the Pylon, allowing you go Cannon someone else / continue blocking way more quickly.
PvP i feel it's not worth trying to cannon rush their expo. it's as if the game is reset and you're trying to cannon rush them all over again. plus their probes aren't doing anything, they'll be more aware. depends on where they expoed too (some opponents i faced expo at ridiculous places).
Personally, I just 4gate for the easy win. 4gate is hard enough to deal with pvp, it becomes impossible to stop when you have a massive tech and economic lead.
In general, i disagree with your idea that "a lot of protoss players will simply save 400 and then expand". unless they're plat or lower, most players know they have to all in. expanding is not an option. If they were to expand, you should just 4gate, not try to cannon rush all over again.
edit: typos
This thread is a team game strategy (which could also be applied to 1v1). That's why all the examples are 3v3 and 4v4 maps.
It is absolutely worth it to cannon their expo. It's the difference between someone being back in the game in 5 minutes versus 8 minutes at little cost to you.
You can still do this in 1v1 even if the map takes 4 pylons in PvP. Nothing you can really do about it except try to expo somewhere else... Although if they have cannons at your ramp too.........
Edit: Oya, I haven't lost to this in months, since I just throw 2 probes at the enemy probe if it's being suspicious going behind minerals, if and only if I haven't found their pylon/gateway yet.
the only problem i see is that on places like the 1st image the opposing player could get 500 minerals for 2 pylons/2 cannons and place them so they are in range of your outside pylons
This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
On June 01 2011 00:08 zatic wrote: OP: Guide threads need replays. Please read the Strat forum guidelines. This is TL not some BGH forum. We have standards here.
You move the thread to sc2 strategy then say this a minute later? Geez, you should at least give time for the author to find out it was moved (yes, even for hotbid)
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
I really hope so.
Edit: Anyone? Xel naga waiting
I'm pretty sure they fixed it on Xel'naga, I had to learn the hard way.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
I really hope so.
Edit: Anyone? Xel naga waiting
I'm pretty sure they fixed it on Xel'naga, I had to learn the hard way.
Do you mean it's impossible to wall in with 3 pylons now?
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
I really hope so.
Edit: Anyone? Xel naga waiting
I'm pretty sure they fixed it on Xel'naga, I had to learn the hard way.
Do you mean it's impossible to wall in with 3 pylons now?
I believe they added an extra gap in the mineral line to prevent it. Now to fully wall off the back section you need a total of 4 pylons.
On June 01 2011 06:49 sidonelis wrote: This is totally a crap strategy, as you can easily stop your tech, get nexus ASAP, then chrono probes of 1(later2) nexuses and do long distance mining while your first nexus is still up. You will end up like 5 probes and a gateway ahead.
I'm already building cannons behind your expansion. Your move.
Too easy to defend it. I already have a zealot.
A Zealot vs Cannons We'll see who wins
If you're EU, lets go and give it a try.
It's most unfortunate that I play on NA then, perhaps one of my fellow TL's will strike the fear of the most Manly of Manly Cheese into you
I really hope so.
Edit: Anyone? Xel naga waiting
I'm pretty sure they fixed it on Xel'naga, I had to learn the hard way.
Do you mean it's impossible to wall in with 3 pylons now?
No, that's for the bottom of the ramp. It was mainly for ZvT and ZvP, I think. I mean, just pylon or depot block the bottom of the ramp and zerg can't do anything until he has enough roaches to kill the scvs, and then marauders just walk up and roflstomp. It was pretty hard to deal with, and it's why all MLG maps have that lowered depot at the bottom of their ramp.
I would like to add "Slade" from the NA server to the list of people trying to do this, failing horribly and then immediately leaving + ignoring you LOL.
On May 31 2011 22:05 Zeyro wrote: that is just seriously stupid... because an expansion cost 400 for toss and terran, 300 for zerg IF IT'S FINISHED if not you just lose a small amount of minerals... but you spend 750 minerals for that cheese... the result just dont worth the cost of that... because you are just far behind after that
The whole purpose of this build is to win outright or force them to lose most of their Probes/SCVs and have to relocate their Command Center.
On June 01 2011 08:14 Keilah wrote: does the victim have time to mine enough for:
1-2 pylons gate core warpgate tech 1 stalker a new nexus
?
You build your forge at 12. A Protoss will need to scout your Forge and kill your "scouting" Probe before you are able to wall it off and begin the cannons. If he is unable to do this the game is over, unless you are unable to build a few Zealots in a reasonable amount of time. Warpgate won't even be started at this point, and even it were possible to get a Stalker out it wouldn't matter.
haha I actually do this in Team games with ?/Z vs ?/Z I do the same type of thing with 2 Evo chambers and Spinecrawlers. Its sick because of the Broodlings from the Evol.ution chambers. Its probably not viable in 1v1 because you sac more Econ doing this as Zerg. Very cool guide, Hot Bid, you're a baller.
I did this all night last night while playing 4v4s. Normally I go Forge first into 18 Nexus into 6 gate +1, so this ties in well with that.
Basically if you can get the wall up you're golden, and there's little your victim can do about it. The hardest part is avoiding or shaking a tail. I'm pretty sure that almost every time a worker was tailing my Probe I couldn't set it up, although I probably should have sent a second Probe, which I never did. I tried using the Stop Trick but it never worked well enough. I see the value in sending a second Probe now, although I bet it wouldn't work against Terran because they might have completed walling by then.
Maps where I was successful: Toxic Slums: 12 o'clock position Lava Flow: 11 o'clock position Sand Canyon: 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock positions District 10: 12 o'clock position with an extra pylon that my enemy placed in behind helping (lol)
Lessons Learned: >Executing this rush is damaging to your build timing if you focus too heavily on the rush. Rely on your enemies' focus being fixed there and macro yourself while the rush is going on. >Two cannons are preferred to one wherever you go. If you can't fit two cannons then don't expect the rush to be as good. >You will almost always become the prime target of your remaining enemies once you do this rush. Your allies should be aware that they might have to defend you no matter what. Luckily the rush isn't too damaging that you can't get a 4gate and +1 up by about 8-10 minutes. >Even if the rush fails as a result of your target reacting properly and quick enough, the distraction and damage to his economy is usually enough to set him back (especially since most players in team games are BAD). >The more Zerg on your enemies' team, the worse off you are. Finding the enemy base that isn't Zerg is a huge waste of time and allows your enemies to get a Zealot or Marine out in time to stop or damage the rush. > Having a Zerg ally to throw down a quick Spawning Pool and send a few support Zerglings is really helpful, especially if your rush is a little late.
Anyway,thanks for the 3d,i was uncertain if to start actually laddering something different rather then 1v1,and by accident you gave me a little fun factor to try it out.Those spots are used also in 1v1,but its kinda different then team :D
This is not all-in, can be defined as early pressure. You will continue making probes after the cannon rush is successful, and you are not at risk to any opposing pressure if you simply make a cannon at your base; therefore, this is comparable to something like an early 2 rax pressure.
I surprisingly encountered 3 people trying this against me in the past 2 days. Damn hot bid is popular.
The first game the cannoneer trapped two of my probes in the pylon lock. Ofc his probe died.
The second game my opponent was able to successfully cannon my main mineral lines. I expoed at the natual and he tried to cannon that was well. However with a zealot out (and a 2nd one almost finished) his attempt to wall off failed. What really hurt me is the 30 lings that came by my wide open base shortly afterwards. Thankfully someone managed to kill off a lot of workers on the other side of the map with hellions and banshees.
The last game involved the probe mismicroing and I took it down to 1hp. He ran away and I proceeded by locking him out of the shared base with gateways, then transitioning into a 4 gate.
I'm a rank 60 Diamond I hope that you guys don't forget that a counter for this build is to scout for a REALLY early forge and if you scout that, kill the Probe as soon as possible with SCVs or Drones before it starts warping cannons. When that happens, rush them as soon as possible with marines because the protoss player will try to recover from that and you can't let them get away.
On June 02 2011 06:02 littleblappa wrote: I'm a rank 60 Diamond I hope that you guys don't forget that a counter for this build is to scout for a REALLY early forge and if you scout that, kill the Probe as soon as possible with SCVs or Drones before it starts warping cannons. When that happens, rush them as soon as possible with marines because the protoss player will try to recover from that and you can't let them get away.
On June 02 2011 06:02 littleblappa wrote: I'm a rank 60 Diamond + Show Spoiler +
not talking about 4s, herp derp
I hope that you guys don't forget that a counter for this build is to scout for a REALLY early forge and if you scout that, kill the Probe as soon as possible with SCVs or Drones before it starts warping cannons. When that happens, rush them as soon as possible with marines because the protoss player will try to recover from that and you can't let them get away.+ Show Spoiler +
herp derp again
This is super naive thinking because the whole point of the build is that it doesn't matter if it is scouted or not. You build 3-4 pylons right in their face and make them deal with it. If it fails you just drop a Cannon in-base and fast expand while getting Gates up.
The best counter is seriously just good reaction time. I continued doing this last night and every time I failed it was because they send a goddam tail or flooded my area before I could get all the pylons up. I still can't get the stop trick right. I also have to be better with my second probe too.
Any time I didn't cannon rush last night, I or my teammates just got rolled by 6-8pool + 2rax + 2Gate anyways. That combination is basically impossible to stop, especially on maps like Toxic Slums where your base is isolated and your partners may be unwilling to send their 1 Zealot against 6-8 marines, zerglings, and 4 Zealots. You're basically better off cannon rushing, since there's little else you can do if they choose to be that cheap. The only rush I stopped last night was a Ling+2Rax+4gate on District 10 because I went straight for Colossus. Had they come earlier it wouldn't have mattered.
The worst part is that after successfully rushing yesterday many times my teammates still couldn't convert the win. After the rush you're basically playing a 3.5 vs 3 and if you have some crap (Bronze/Silver quality) teammates it really sucks.
So tl;dr: Go for the rush and if it fails pray that your teammates are good enough to survive until you can help them.
Well, if this is what it takes for you to have fun with the game then fine with me. There's also a game called sim city that is a bit more advanced. You may wanna try it.
I don't see how this would work, because for zerg, the standard vs toss is pool b4 hatch unless its a long map, and you can't cannon their mineral line from behind like that because the creep from the hatch goes over.
For terran, the barrack comes up at the same time or a little bit before the forge does, and marine can kill the probe before he the pylons even finish, so you will have 2-3 wasted pylons.
For protoss, unless they are going 14 nexus they will get out a zealot before your pylon finishes building.
I like this tactic in a 1v1 setting against greedy Hatch before pool zergs. It lets you shut down their natural fairly easily.
However, I have no experience with this in a team setting, should be fun to try out. The stop-trick in particular sounds like a useful mechanic to exploit. Thanks for this write-up dude
On June 02 2011 22:37 primebeef wrote: I don't see how this would work, because for zerg, the standard vs toss is pool b4 hatch unless its a long map, and you can't cannon their mineral line from behind like that because the creep from the hatch goes over.
For terran, the barrack comes up at the same time or a little bit before the forge does, and marine can kill the probe before he the pylons even finish, so you will have 2-3 wasted pylons.
For protoss, unless they are going 14 nexus they will get out a zealot before your pylon finishes building.
This is for TEAM GAMES if you didn't get that already. No Protoss in their right mind goes 14 Nexus in a team game, so clearly you weren't paying attention to the OP.
Also, the cannons can begin production before a Marine or Zealot is out, since every time I enter someone's base I clearly see a half-done Barracks or Gateway, and I'm just about at 300 minerals since I cut Probes.
The best counter I've seen after I got the cannons up was a Bunker being dropped in the mineral line while the Marine and Cannon were building. Few players are that smart though, and I still took out a fair amount of SCVs.
I've been doing this in team games for about a month now and was even considering making this same thread. Let me add to this what I had planned to submit to the community.
Here are some tips I can offer on execution of the cannon rush that I've learned from experience:
-Que up the pylons ahead of time. This will allow for more time to verify you get the proper pylon wall-in. -Try to have a teamate scout to find a protoss opponent for you to target first. If your cannon rushing probe also scouts, there's a better chance they will follow your probe. -I agree with the idea that you can lose a probe following you by making him attack you to create space to block in with a pylon, but I want to elaborate a bit more on that. I mentioned above that I think it's best to que up the pylons for faster and more accurate exectution. You can add a jog in your probes path to force any following probe to attack you. Additionally, you should make sure you approach from the 1 pylon side of your wall-in, so that you only need to place 1 pylon before the following probe has a chance to catch back up to your cannon probe.
I'm gunna sound dumb if I am wrong but you place the pylons/cannons at enemy's natural expo's right? if so then they can just easy build stalkers or marines to out range the cannons and kill the pylons, or they can just go 1 base and kill you.
On June 02 2011 06:02 littleblappa wrote: I'm a rank 60 Diamond + Show Spoiler +
not talking about 4s, herp derp
I hope that you guys don't forget that a counter for this build is to scout for a REALLY early forge and if you scout that, kill the Probe as soon as possible with SCVs or Drones before it starts warping cannons. When that happens, rush them as soon as possible with marines because the protoss player will try to recover from that and you can't let them get away.+ Show Spoiler +
herp derp again
This is super naive thinking because the whole point of the build is that it doesn't matter if it is scouted or not. You build 3-4 pylons right in their face and make them deal with it. If it fails you just drop a Cannon in-base and fast expand while getting Gates up.
The best counter is seriously just good reaction time. I continued doing this last night and every time I failed it was because they send a goddam tail or flooded my area before I could get all the pylons up. I still can't get the stop trick right. I also have to be better with my second probe too.
Any time I didn't cannon rush last night, I or my teammates just got rolled by 6-8pool + 2rax + 2Gate anyways. That combination is basically impossible to stop, especially on maps like Toxic Slums where your base is isolated and your partners may be unwilling to send their 1 Zealot against 6-8 marines, zerglings, and 4 Zealots. You're basically better off cannon rushing, since there's little else you can do if they choose to be that cheap. The only rush I stopped last night was a Ling+2Rax+4gate on District 10 because I went straight for Colossus. Had they come earlier it wouldn't have mattered.
The worst part is that after successfully rushing yesterday many times my teammates still couldn't convert the win. After the rush you're basically playing a 3.5 vs 3 and if you have some crap (Bronze/Silver quality) teammates it really sucks.
So tl;dr: Go for the rush and if it fails pray that your teammates are good enough to survive until you can help them.
Yes, it matters if scouted. Any competent player can surround and kill a probe with four workers, five if you're slow. If you see an early forge and early scout, just don't let the probe get behind your minerals. The strength of this "build" is that it punishes players with poor micro.
On June 02 2011 22:37 primebeef wrote: I don't see how this would work, because for zerg, the standard vs toss is pool b4 hatch unless its a long map, and you can't cannon their mineral line from behind like that because the creep from the hatch goes over.
For terran, the barrack comes up at the same time or a little bit before the forge does, and marine can kill the probe before he the pylons even finish, so you will have 2-3 wasted pylons.
For protoss, unless they are going 14 nexus they will get out a zealot before your pylon finishes building.
This is for TEAM GAMES if you didn't get that already. No Protoss in their right mind goes 14 Nexus in a team game, so clearly you weren't paying attention to the OP.
Also, the cannons can begin production before a Marine or Zealot is out, since every time I enter someone's base I clearly see a half-done Barracks or Gateway, and I'm just about at 300 minerals since I cut Probes.
The best counter I've seen after I got the cannons up was a Bunker being dropped in the mineral line while the Marine and Cannon were building. Few players are that smart though, and I still took out a fair amount of SCVs.
There are games where you can go 14 nexus, you partner just has to produce a large army as you get your econ going, and you will bulldoze them in the mid to late game.
hotbid maybe u should try to get good at the game instead of posting ridiculous strategies that demonstrate no skill? everyone with half a brain in their head knows how to cannon rush... this is the reason why you and 90% of the people who theory craft on this site suck.
Tried this in 4's in some random games over the past couple nights and was only mildly successful, so people can defend this pretty easily I imagine. Pretty sure I'm going to end up on the next "When Cheese Fails" episode, lol.
On June 03 2011 02:55 bLingKing wrote: hotbid maybe u should try to get good at the game instead of posting ridiculous strategies that demonstrate no skill? everyone with half a brain in their head knows how to cannon rush... this is the reason why you and 90% of the people who theory craft on this site suck.
incoming temp ban for speaking truth...
there's an art to cannon rushing Besides this guide was actually helpful. The half hex thing is gold and will strengthen my BOSS cannon rush on xel'naga.
oh gawd! I remember reading the strategy guide about 3rax marine-scv all in and the first game I played I met exactly that strat. Now the next time I play, I might just bump into this one. )
On June 03 2011 02:55 bLingKing wrote: hotbid maybe u should try to get good at the game instead of posting ridiculous strategies that demonstrate no skill? everyone with half a brain in their head knows how to cannon rush... this is the reason why you and 90% of the people who theory craft on this site suck.
incoming temp ban for speaking truth...
You do know they hand out bans for martyring yourself? And that's beside your post being completely unnecessary and rude.
On June 03 2011 04:12 JediGamer wrote: Someone did this to me on ladder PvP. I just cancelled my cybernetics core and made a nexus. I then won easily.
You shouldn't have, since it's fairly easy to come out of this build and have a 4gate +1 before 10 minutes. There's no way you should have ended up ahead if you were waiting for a Nexus. He was probably not that great.
Had it been a team game too you would have been much worse off as a whole.
On June 03 2011 04:12 JediGamer wrote: Someone did this to me on ladder PvP. I just cancelled my cybernetics core and made a nexus. I then won easily.
You shouldn't have, since it's fairly easy to come out of this build and have a 4gate +1 before 10 minutes. There's no way you should have ended up ahead if you were waiting for a Nexus. He was probably not that great.
Had it been a team game too you would have been much worse off as a whole.
It's also fairly easy for him to just cannon your natural, especially since he already controls your high ground.
You should include MC's cannon rush vs. IdrA on Tal'darim Altar, in which he did a full wall-off in between IdrA's main and natural. Even though it wasn't a fair fight, as IdrA prematurely left the game.
If I recall correctly the cannon rush was easy to stop if you were intelligent on BGH in all positions except top center. The best part about cannon rushing top center was after the cannon went down your probe had the ability to glitch through the minerals and keep building more cannons if necessary.
ONEwbc has been doing this for a long time. It's actually quite difficult to stop unless you know it's coming... and most players only pull ~4 workers to deal try and kill pylons, when you need more to stop this (hitting two pylons at once is necessary if they are already down).
if we are talking about serious reactions to it, if they actually get the pylon block up, just chrono out a zealot, save up 400. expand. chrono out probes. start mining from expansion as necessary. make 2nd zealot and attack with first. continue playing as normal.
If I recall correctly the cannon rush was easy to stop if you were intelligent on BGH in all positions except top center. The best part about cannon rushing top center was after the cannon went down your probe had the ability to glitch through the minerals and keep building more cannons if necessary.
Can't cannon rush a good player in any position on bgh because it's extremely easy to glitch 2 workers over.
i had someone do this to me.. i nearly freaked out (would be embarrassing on an epic scale if i lost to a cannon rush)
i sent all my probes to attack and held... i think it woulda worked if there weren't some gaps in the minerals for my probes to surround...i kept at least one probe on the chase
On June 13 2011 14:56 xHassassin wrote: I just realized it's actually viable to cannon rush terran since you can wall off the ramp to prevent their workers from escaping
My win ratio just went up 33%.
marines can snipe pylons while staying away from cannons quite easily though
On June 14 2011 01:30 DarkCore wrote: I hate cannons, all I can say. The fact that this is a standard build is as if 6 pool had become a standard, except that you can counter it...
Photon cannoning to masters league!
Boss cannon Rushing is only good for PvP.
T, you just lift and float to your natural.
Z, You should have Creep behind your mineral anyway so it won't work.
On June 14 2011 01:30 DarkCore wrote: I hate cannons, all I can say. The fact that this is a standard build is as if 6 pool had become a standard, except that you can counter it...
Photon cannoning to masters league!
Boss cannon Rushing is only good for PvP.
T, you just lift and float to your natural.
Z, You should have Creep behind your mineral anyway so it won't work.
All of the cheesiest rushes only work against Protoss.
Anyone watch starwar 6 final mc vs lovecd notice the game on XNC? was the map edited by the tournament host or was it the new XNC version? MC failed to execute this boss cannon cuz the pylon somehow didnt wall off completely =.=
I experienced a rather smart response to this from a Terran the other day in a 4v4. Once I got my wall up and started my cannon, he immediately began building a bunker at his mineral line and started attacking with his first marine. By the time the cannon finished the marine just hopped in the bunker and killed the whole thing off. Rather smart. This really does work best with Protoss.
On June 14 2011 02:37 bluegarfield wrote: Anyone watch starwar 6 final mc vs lovecd notice the game on XNC? was the map edited by the tournament host or was it the new XNC version? MC failed to execute this boss cannon cuz the pylon somehow didnt wall off completely =.=
Even if the map was edited and you fail a BOSS cannon rush you can still beat a 4-gate. :D
On June 13 2011 14:56 xHassassin wrote: I just realized it's actually viable to cannon rush terran since you can wall off the ramp to prevent their workers from escaping
My win ratio just went up 33%.
marines can snipe pylons while staying away from cannons quite easily though
Marines can't hit the pylon without getting hit by the cannon unless they're in a bunker. Cannons have range 7 and marines have range 5.
Plus this hits before the first marine pops out.
IDK maybe I just only play shitty players but I've never lost with this yet. It's just hard when they decide to send a worker to attack your probe.
must be me, but if you just keep droning / save up 400 minerals... and after that relocating to your natural or wherever, he will have invested 3 pylons + 3 cannons or 750 minerals for killing 1 nexus or 400 minerals (while he had to sacrifice droning up himself).
On June 14 2011 05:18 GarlicSauce wrote: must be me, but if you just keep droning / save up 400 minerals... and after that relocating to your natural or wherever, he will have invested 3 pylons + 3 cannons or 750 minerals for killing 1 nexus or 400 minerals (while he had to sacrifice droning up himself).
I heard hot_bid was a troll but I didn't believe it until I read this. Will be like the 3 rax scv thread that was wrote a while back and for the next 2 weeks the BOSS CR will be pretty frequent on the ladder. Thx jerk T.T;;
I Had no idea about how to ditch a following worker like that. Pretty neat trick. Going to have to play around as toss in team games for a bit to play around with this :D
On June 14 2011 05:18 GarlicSauce wrote: must be me, but if you just keep droning / save up 400 minerals... and after that relocating to your natural or wherever, he will have invested 3 pylons + 3 cannons or 750 minerals for killing 1 nexus or 400 minerals (while he had to sacrifice droning up himself).
You forget lost mining time and lost bossness.
True, to make up for lost bossness you must warp in 2 additional nexus'. Also, make 50 probes and probe rush him.
hahahahaha another bitch strategy for P, I love it :D But I still have a little question for this : let say the probe is following you coz the guy wants your probe to die horribly. What you said is that if you micro you probe correctly, you have the possibility to place a pylon between you and the following probe ? Seems quite hard :/
Coz even if you let your probe in sight, like a nuub, my guess is that the guy will launch a worker after you in any case
this topc inspired me to go mass nexus during my random 4v4 placements...lsot all 5 games but blizzard recognized me as a boss so i was placed in gold...top 8 too.
I generally only do this on Lava Flow in my 4's games. When I first started doing it, it was incredible, to the point where it was stupid NOT to do it. Stop the guy from mining, throw them off, do a forge expand. I've gotten away with laying just one cannon if they react poorly, but usually I put two. Lately though, people seem to have caught on, and scout (who scouts in 4s?). Is there a way to get it out earlier, maybe 10 Forge? I dunno that the econ would work out as well.
Also, I usually build my pylon so its just in range of the bottom of the cliff, is that a mistake? I should probably be putting them closer to protect my pylons/cannons from getting destroyed.
great one on metalopolis...minerals are close to cliff 3 pylons walling off a cannon on the bottom and 1 pylon+probe for spoitting up top vs Toss is a gr8 way to avoid pesky pvp 4gates!!!!
hm i guess combatEZ does this since season 1 now =/ This is what you can do on xel naga caverns as well. pylons behind mineral line than cannon cancel third pylon in the last moment go out with probe and close the gap with another cannon and than pylons and cannons all over the place =D
This works great in team games. As a Diamond/Master player i'm still canon rushing in 2v2 games. With a high instant win success rate vs PZ. PP is easy also, provided there's no forge or wall in because I do my canon rush with my partner's super early zealot. There's nothing better than making probes crap in their pants at a 3:30 zealot, while there's pylons going up behind his mineral line.
PS if a pylon goes down, if you can reblock with a gateway instead, they're not gonna bust that down for a while.
Lunar Colony, Magma core, Boneyard, and High Orbit has great spots for this type of canon rushing. And Watch www.twitch.tv/gaulzi to learn amazing cancel micro & great probe survival skills.
On June 12 2012 14:32 ToxicFlu wrote: This works great in team games. As a Diamond/Master player i'm still canon rushing in 2v2 games. With a high instant win success rate vs PZ. PP is easy also, provided there's no forge or wall in because I do my canon rush with my partner's super early zealot. There's nothing better than making probes crap in their pants at a 3:30 zealot, while there's pylons going up behind his mineral line.
PS if a pylon goes down, if you can reblock with a gateway instead, they're not gonna bust that down for a while.
Lunar Colony, Magma core, Boneyard, and High Orbit has great spots for this type of canon rushing. And Watch www.twitch.tv/gaulzi to learn amazing cancel micro & great probe survival skills.
Cheers!
What a terrible terrible way to bump such an old thread and advertise your own stream....
On June 12 2012 14:32 ToxicFlu wrote: This works great in team games. As a Diamond/Master player i'm still canon rushing in 2v2 games. With a high instant win success rate vs PZ. PP is easy also, provided there's no forge or wall in because I do my canon rush with my partner's super early zealot. There's nothing better than making probes crap in their pants at a 3:30 zealot, while there's pylons going up behind his mineral line.
PS if a pylon goes down, if you can reblock with a gateway instead, they're not gonna bust that down for a while.
Lunar Colony, Magma core, Boneyard, and High Orbit has great spots for this type of canon rushing. And Watch www.twitch.tv/gaulzi to learn amazing cancel micro & great probe survival skills.
Cheers!
What a terrible terrible way to bump such an old thread and advertise your own stream....
EPT
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o not make Probes, wait till 275 Minerals*
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JfMUs.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n2pAW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RIv9z.jpg)
