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[G] Having the right mentality to improve - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
May 29 2011 04:07 GMT
#21
Very nicely written. I think this will be a help to almost anyone here, bronze to masters. It can be hard sometimes to not get angry over a loss, but in the end, as you said, a loss will help you learn more than a win in most cases (unless you're playing in a tournament).

Hope to see more from you ^.^
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
May 29 2011 07:51 GMT
#22
Added some of the PM's + my response in the original post. The names have been removed to ensure animosity (spelling?)
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
Daveoo2
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia19 Posts
May 29 2011 10:35 GMT
#23
I don't think you can tldr here. Read it because it will help you. If you tldr you may as well just listen to the line in the article "practice and play a lot, don't give up and enjoy, push yourself to the next level". Well done on a high quality post. It has helped me a lot to know how to analyse not just a replay or match up but also my playing on a whole. I think that I can play a lot better now. Team Liquid needs more pro posters like you.
Good Gaming!
FenneK
Profile Joined November 2010
France1231 Posts
May 29 2011 11:05 GMT
#24
Good writeup, but it does sorta point out the obvious. Great for beginners though.
good luck have batman
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
May 29 2011 11:18 GMT
#25
I am quite overwhelmed by the amazing response thus far. The exact goal that I have outlined by writing this piece is to help people not only improve their learning, but also just being a better self in general. To hopefully have a positive impact on the community as a whole.

I will continue to reply to all your PM's (as fast as I can without degrading quality response) and editing them into the post to expand upon all the situations. More content will be posted steadily. A big thank you to all!
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
.Mthex-
Profile Joined May 2011
United States168 Posts
May 30 2011 08:36 GMT
#26
Thankyou for the post, I did not read the enitre thing, but did cover the first 3/4th then skimmed the rest, but the help with the mindset of losses is what interested me the most. Losses into wins is something I have internally known for a while but have just struggled to actually foster into a conscious thought. Each loss should be looked at as an opportunity to improve instead of a symbol of failure... its so true is hurts! :p ty
"If you tricked him, then he is tricked" - Artosis
XTRAmir
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany32 Posts
May 30 2011 10:22 GMT
#27
Very Good Post! I identified some of my behaviors in your write up. But i have one question. I often hear from people and even day 9 says that when he ladders he plays like 10-20 games and then start watching the replays. You say play and than rewatch them. I would like to know which method is better, or if it is a personal choice? I think the first method lets you more easily spam games and then say: No i dont like watch all games again. Happenes often to me , i watch like 3-4 games of the 20 and than i start playing again because i have no dicipline to look 1-2h at the other 16-17games and analyse them, too. Maybe i should try play, watch and then play and watch again.
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-30 12:22:30
May 30 2011 12:19 GMT
#28
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 30 2011 19:22 XTRAmir wrote:
Very Good Post! I identified some of my behaviors in your write up. But i have one question. I often hear from people and even day 9 says that when he ladders he plays like 10-20 games and then start watching the replays. You say play and than rewatch them. I would like to know which method is better, or if it is a personal choice? I think the first method lets you more easily spam games and then say: No i dont like watch all games again. Happenes often to me , i watch like 3-4 games of the 20 and than i start playing again because i have no dicipline to look 1-2h at the other 16-17games and analyse them, too. Maybe i should try play, watch and then play and watch again.


That's a very good question XTRAmir. It does come down to personal preference here, but there is also another factor involved in this. There is an undeniable difference between a pro gamer watching replays and training on ladder, versus a not yet established player trying to do the same.

The reason why people like Day[9] play 10-20 games and then watch replays is because they have already refined their whole training and learning process. They know exactly what they are going to train and focus on for the day, and stick to that. Afterwards since they have a vast amount of experience, they can often extract a whole lot more information out of just a few games.

A player that is not peaking at the top 10 of the Grandmaster league will probably not have the experience and finetuning needed to do exactly the same. The reason why I say you should keep a good balance between the two is because it WILL accelerate your play and analysis as a whole a lot faster until you reach that high plateau.

You could just play 10-20 games and watch replays, and let it come naturally without any clear focus, but it will cost you a lot more time investment to get the same results. So in a nutshell: Unless you have a good idea of how to train, work out specifics, and sit at the highest level possible already, do not try to mimick the way the pro's train to the exact point. The time investment will be different for you and any other person for that matter, but it will always be dependant on your direct level, experience and knowledge.

Just make sure it suits your personal style as well, sit down and work out what would work best for you. It took me weeks to figure out an exact training method that gives me the best results, but it was so worth it. Even with me still recovering from RSI, I am getting more productive results then ever before, with way less time invested.

Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
75CCk
Profile Joined May 2011
France4 Posts
May 30 2011 13:06 GMT
#29
mmh that was a nice post, thx and grats for this.

I would add that there is something else that is important if you want to improve : kill your ego. Some people are going to say "blah, but every progamer / high level sportsman has a huge ego".

This is fairly true however there are some extremely talented ppl that can naturally improve and have a natural insight on game. Not all pros are thinking the way you think, believe me.

You will start improving a lot faster by "becoming nobody". Anyway, to the others eye, you are virtually nobody. Your nickname is unknown. Nobody cares about your stats or ranking, I mean, nobody really cares.

Start forgetting this and have the humility to fight your weaknesses by admitting them...

And you also need to have to strongly commit to each game you play and play t hem at 200%.

My 2 cents
P a r i S
Psypod
Profile Joined September 2010
Brazil14 Posts
May 30 2011 13:53 GMT
#30
Some people may say that this is too obvious, but I believe that everyone, even the most mental straight people in the world have flaws that need to be cut off.

We lose everyday, everytime, but we also win in most cases. We just need to stop and think for a second and see that life is made of winnings and losings or making decisions for that matter and we should transfer this decision making system we use everyday into other things we do. We wake up everyday on time for work, so that's a win. If by any means we wake up late, we lose and start thinking what happened. Did I went to bed later the other night? Did I have a bad night of sleep? Why is that? You leave home on time but get to work late, so somewhere in the way you lost. Did you take the wrong way? Were you sloppy enough that was driving too slow? Was the train late?

So these exemples are just a small portion of decisions we take everyday that compose our routine. If something is wrong, we fix it, we make it better. If we don't, well, it's our life that we're losing.

I liked this post because it tells us everything we already know but deny to see and understand. And this is our biggest wall to face. Once you can improve yourself in every way possible, you start getting near perfection and we can even make a link here into Nietzche's concept of Übermensch, which can be roughly translated into superman, someone perfect in every way that goes beyond our understanding.

I know it sounds weird and kinda crazy, but in my opinion, mankind is so close to perfection and at the same time fail to see the way to it, which ends up making it impossible to achieve.

Same goes to SC2 progamers. They've evolved their playing skills just like someone improves their skills into playing soccer, swimming, studying, developing, managing and that's, I think, the key that made e-Sports something possible now. Mental sports like chess, checkers, poker, etc... not physical sports, but mental ones that instead of using physical strength, uses mental strength.

We're in the 21st Century and we're clearly seeing things changing and evolving all the time. Something that 10 years ago (and I was there) was a joke like playing Counter Strike to be competitive, today is something that is getting usual, with millions of player joining the scene everyday. And just like any other sports, e-Sports have their casual players that just want something to distract themselves. And again, we fail to see how e-Sports can help us be not only a better gamer, but also a better manager and a better person.

RTS games wides up our minds as we need to be on top of everything everytime, while working everyday in the same job narrows your mind into that only piece of work you have to do. And that's what differs us from the managers, directors, because they have the ability to actually see things we don't and manage things that we can't.
So yeah, there's a lot into the e-Sports that can be beneficial for us and not just a waste of time like some old school people tend to think.

So every little piece of things we do can help us get not only a better person, professional, but also a better player. All we have to do is try to use every tool we have in everyway possible.


I rly enjoyed reading your post and just wanted to add some comments on how things are easy and we make it hard to see.

I myself am working on to be a better gamer, but also using the wide vision I have in the game into my routine. And believe me, it helps. Your mind can be everywhere, you just need to place it wherever you want and focus.
Don't blame the game, blame the player.
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
May 30 2011 14:11 GMT
#31
I agree with most of the things you said. There is only one thing that I don't agree on which will always be debatable: Perfection.

I do not believe that true perfection is really something that can be achieved. Or if it even should be achieved. Perfection means that there is no more room more improvement, change etc. But there always is. If there wasn't then my god, life would be meaningless and boring.

But I do agree with the general thought behind your post, thank you for sharing it with us.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
Mactator
Profile Joined March 2011
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-30 14:50:30
May 30 2011 14:41 GMT
#32
You sound a bit like those cheap help to self help books. It is really not that complicated:

- work hard
- use your brain
- discuss sc2 with friends who are as good or better than you.
- sign up to tournaments
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
May 30 2011 14:58 GMT
#33
That is a summary of the process. But it's not as obvious and black and white for some people as it is for others. That is the exact reason why I made this thread. There are a lot of people out there that do have a general idea of how to go about it, but are unsure about the execution. Others are very chaotic and cannot focus on the right areas at the right time.

If you already know these things and figured out a way to apply it all to your own style, well then kudos to you, it's awesome. But for those out there that like to just have more information on this topic, or might not have everything worked out yet, is what this thread is dedicated to.

Cheers.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
August 07 2011 09:08 GMT
#34
I am bumping this thread because Season 3 is now running. This thread will probably help some people out, and they can add their questions /w my answers so I can expand the main post to help even more people that have ladder issues.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
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