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On May 01 2011 01:54 NoisyNinja wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 08:17 rbkl wrote:
Never seen mutaling work in zvz so I will need a good amount of replays to be a believer -- if I see muta, I just add hydra and attack and win. Not to mention 2 fungal growths can kill all of your mutas. 2 fungals cannot kill mutas. Fungal growth to light or non-armored units = 36 damage over 4 seconds or 8 damage per second. Mutalisk HP=120. 2 fungal growths = 72. 120>72 Therefore, your point has been proven wrong and you should probably edit it to avoid a ban. Now if you mean 2 fungal growths and some anti-air attacks, then please clarify that in the future.
This made me laugh. Thanks for telling me how to avoid bans.
Yes I am sorry, when I fight using my infestors, I only use fungal and the other abilities I try to avoid as much as I can, especially infested terrans.
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Sorry mate, every time I've seen mutas and I have infestors out I smile becasue I know I've instantly won. It's a huge gamble to go mutas because if he gets 1 fungal off you will lose all those mutas in that blob. Even though it takes something like 4 fungals to kill off the mutas, if you try to harras with them then the queens will pick off the 10-20 HP mutas easily and they will be useless for 10mins if they do escape because of their low health.
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I don't see how mute-ling is going to win against roach-infestor. Also, your "tactic" for killing the opponents roaches is just a gamble and will not work very often.
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On May 01 2011 17:41 Kar98 wrote:
Sorry mate, every time I've seen mutas and I have infestors out I smile becasue I know I've instantly won. It's a huge gamble to go mutas because if he gets 1 fungal off you will lose all those mutas in that blob. Even though it takes something like 4 fungals to kill off the mutas, if you try to harras with them then the queens will pick off the 10-20 HP mutas easily and they will be useless for 10mins if they do escape because of their low health.
you could try having a few extra queens to trnasfuse
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On May 01 2011 16:24 Alpina wrote:
Muta ling works only if you are going into fast upgrades + hive -> ultra den. One guy made a guide on TL about that.
Just lings and mutas can be countered with roach/hydra/baneling or roach/hydra/infestor.
Also you rely on burrowing lings aka your opponent makes a mistake not making overseer.
im relying on delaying his expo early on(with speedlings) so that he might skimp on the overseer and corruptors/mutalisks to snipe that overseer in case he does get it.
if he has like 20+ banes, then you can get infestors of your own and throw 2-3 infested terrans into the middle of his banelings(burrowed infestors of course) (though banes r supposed to have good AI, like 10 banelings waste themselves b4 your opponent even has time to react)
Man like 2 ppl already asked that question, try to read the posts pls.
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On May 02 2011 00:32 Dragom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 16:24 Alpina wrote:
Muta ling works only if you are going into fast upgrades + hive -> ultra den. One guy made a guide on TL about that.
Just lings and mutas can be countered with roach/hydra/baneling or roach/hydra/infestor.
Also you rely on burrowing lings aka your opponent makes a mistake not making overseer. im relying on delaying his expo early on(with speedlings) so that he might skimp on the overseer and corruptors/mutalisks to snipe that overseer in case he does get it. if he has like 20+ banes, then you can get infestors of your own and throw 2-3 infested terrans into the middle of his banelings(burrowed infestors of course) (though banes r supposed to have good AI, like 10 banelings waste themselves b4 your opponent even has time to react) Man like 2 ppl already asked that question, try to read the posts pls.
So what if you can't snipe the overseer? And btw if you snipe my overseer while I am moving to your base I for sure gonna make one more cause I will smell something sneaky going on.
Just roach/infestor should easily clean your unit composition.
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With all due respect, what is descibed by the op seems frankly,
do my style
out micro
win
not to say this can't work, but rather hard if both players are equal...
perhaps when we see 7 muta indiviually micro'd like wraiths from BW, sniping infestors and what not...
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On May 02 2011 00:39 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 00:32 Dragom wrote:On May 01 2011 16:24 Alpina wrote:
Muta ling works only if you are going into fast upgrades + hive -> ultra den. One guy made a guide on TL about that.
Just lings and mutas can be countered with roach/hydra/baneling or roach/hydra/infestor.
Also you rely on burrowing lings aka your opponent makes a mistake not making overseer. im relying on delaying his expo early on(with speedlings) so that he might skimp on the overseer and corruptors/mutalisks to snipe that overseer in case he does get it. if he has like 20+ banes, then you can get infestors of your own and throw 2-3 infested terrans into the middle of his banelings(burrowed infestors of course) (though banes r supposed to have good AI, like 10 banelings waste themselves b4 your opponent even has time to react) Man like 2 ppl already asked that question, try to read the posts pls. So what if you can't snipe the overseer? And btw if you snipe my overseer while I am moving to your base I for sure gonna make one more cause I will smell something sneaky going on. Just roach/infestor should easily clean your unit composition.
1st, making another overseer will delay the atk by like 20 seconds.
2ndly, maybe while your moving out i will have a few burrowed infestors coughing up infested terrans on your mineral lines(i sometimes get 1-2 infestors anyway because I'm teching for a fast Hive) that will give me a reason to snipe your overseer.
Finally, if you don't like mutaling, thats fine with me, do what you like man.
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On May 02 2011 01:59 Dragom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 00:39 Alpina wrote:On May 02 2011 00:32 Dragom wrote:On May 01 2011 16:24 Alpina wrote:
Muta ling works only if you are going into fast upgrades + hive -> ultra den. One guy made a guide on TL about that.
Just lings and mutas can be countered with roach/hydra/baneling or roach/hydra/infestor.
Also you rely on burrowing lings aka your opponent makes a mistake not making overseer. im relying on delaying his expo early on(with speedlings) so that he might skimp on the overseer and corruptors/mutalisks to snipe that overseer in case he does get it. if he has like 20+ banes, then you can get infestors of your own and throw 2-3 infested terrans into the middle of his banelings(burrowed infestors of course) (though banes r supposed to have good AI, like 10 banelings waste themselves b4 your opponent even has time to react) Man like 2 ppl already asked that question, try to read the posts pls. So what if you can't snipe the overseer? And btw if you snipe my overseer while I am moving to your base I for sure gonna make one more cause I will smell something sneaky going on. Just roach/infestor should easily clean your unit composition. 1st, making another overseer will delay the atk by like 20 seconds. 2ndly, maybe while your moving out i will have a few burrowed infestors coughing up infested terrans on your mineral lines(i sometimes get 1-2 infestors anyway because I'm teching for a fast Hive) that will give me a reason to snipe your overseer. Finally, if you don't like mutaling, thats fine with me, do what you like man.
So you delay push by 20 seconds and after that just die? :D
I don't say I don't like your build, just it won't work. Burrowed infestors in the mineral line is just a trick, it's not a certain strategy, because if zerg will have 1 spore and 1 spine in each base you won't made anything.
But if your strategy is about rushing into fast T3 then it's another story - ultras and BLs are awesome in ZvZ.
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In my experience, Muta/Ling can work but it's very difficult and requires a lot of skill to use. However, if you do it right, it will make for a much more satisfying victory. I'm a Master League Zerg and I use Muta/Ling in ZvZ SOMETIMES.
The build I've been working on in ZvZ is a very reactive 10 pool opener. For example, if my opponent goes hatch first and I've opened 10 pool, it's basically auto-win. I just do damage, drone up, and win with my advantage or kill them outright.
If they've gone for a 14 pool I can do a little damage, and follow up by going 1 base muta to expand. If they are unprepared for the mutas, you can commit very hard to muta and win with them alone. If they scout them and prepare with Hydras, you can go for a Muta/Ling/Bane timing attack before they have Infestors. Muta/Ling/Bane annihilates Roach/Hydra in a supply for supply/cost for cost fight.
If they go straight for Infestors to counter the Muta, you can do some damage before Infestors are out, but you need to transition out. At that point you just use like 6 Mutas and some Lings for harassment/containment, while you turtle up with spines and queens and quick tech to Broodlords on two base. If you can get a few Broodlords out, it's EXTREMELY difficult for a player who's going Roach/Infestor, or even Roach/Hydra/Infestor, to beat you.
I'm still working on this style (just started trying it like last week, not very successful with it yet, but what I'm posting here is the lessons I've learned from my losses), but I will try to post replays when I have some successful games with it.
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United States915 Posts
Mutaling requires absolutely perfect mindgames, stealth, and execution against a competent opponent to pull off. And even then, you're probably only coming in even.
The op isn't even high level enough to try to say this is viable. At gold just about anything can work, but trying to safely go muta in zvz makes it to easy to detect. Trying to be sneaky puts you at a huge risk. Either way, its not a good picture.
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On May 02 2011 02:22 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 01:59 Dragom wrote:On May 02 2011 00:39 Alpina wrote:On May 02 2011 00:32 Dragom wrote:On May 01 2011 16:24 Alpina wrote:
Muta ling works only if you are going into fast upgrades + hive -> ultra den. One guy made a guide on TL about that.
Just lings and mutas can be countered with roach/hydra/baneling or roach/hydra/infestor.
Also you rely on burrowing lings aka your opponent makes a mistake not making overseer. im relying on delaying his expo early on(with speedlings) so that he might skimp on the overseer and corruptors/mutalisks to snipe that overseer in case he does get it. if he has like 20+ banes, then you can get infestors of your own and throw 2-3 infested terrans into the middle of his banelings(burrowed infestors of course) (though banes r supposed to have good AI, like 10 banelings waste themselves b4 your opponent even has time to react) Man like 2 ppl already asked that question, try to read the posts pls. So what if you can't snipe the overseer? And btw if you snipe my overseer while I am moving to your base I for sure gonna make one more cause I will smell something sneaky going on. Just roach/infestor should easily clean your unit composition. 1st, making another overseer will delay the atk by like 20 seconds. 2ndly, maybe while your moving out i will have a few burrowed infestors coughing up infested terrans on your mineral lines(i sometimes get 1-2 infestors anyway because I'm teching for a fast Hive) that will give me a reason to snipe your overseer. Finally, if you don't like mutaling, thats fine with me, do what you like man. So you delay push by 20 seconds and after that just die? :D I don't say I don't like your build, just it won't work. Burrowed infestors in the mineral line is just a trick, it's not a certain strategy, because if zerg will have 1 spore and 1 spine in each base you won't made anything. But if your strategy is about rushing into fast T3 then it's another story - ultras and BLs are awesome in ZvZ.
you delay push by 20 seconds and win with the newest addition to your army(a few ultras)
ummm, you can throw 8 infested Terrans when your infestor is right outside the spore detection, since the infested terrans themselves have 6 range, if he has one spine(in the middle of his mineral line), you can still throw terrans so that the terrans can aim at a bunch of workers mining gas and the pheripheral minerals. If he has 2 spines, well thats a bit expensive defense wouldn't you say?
And about the fast tech comment, you didn't think i would go mutaling the entire time did you?(lings have to stay one upgrade lvl ahead of roaches to be effective, however, ocne he gets 3/3 its not possible)
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EPT
