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[!] A WARNING (Purge) - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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DarkJirachi
Profile Joined December 2010
14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 14:10:53
April 10 2011 14:05 GMT
#241
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONO please read my post. I am only talking about the tone he is using in this thread to reply other members. He is treating them like trash, I was simply suggesting that he could put is forward in a more polite albeit strict way, but not using such attitudes and tones that insult people throughly. You can be soft and condescending and insulting but you could also be strict and polite. See the difference?

EDIT: added a few more 'no's to emphasise my point
EDIT2: this is a 30second response. should i get banned for posting it?
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
April 10 2011 14:16 GMT
#242
I wholeheartedly support the purge. Actually, it would be better if the purge would also occur in the LR thread in the future too. Posts' qualities seem to drop fast in this past months. At least this should make people think twice before hitting the post button.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
April 10 2011 14:30 GMT
#243
On April 10 2011 23:05 DarkJirachi wrote:
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONO please read my post. I am only talking about the tone he is using in this thread to reply other members. He is treating them like trash, I was simply suggesting that he could put is forward in a more polite albeit strict way, but not using such attitudes and tones that insult people throughly. You can be soft and condescending and insulting but you could also be strict and polite. See the difference?

EDIT: added a few more 'no's to emphasise my point
EDIT2: this is a 30second response. should i get banned for posting it?


I think you're overly sensitive. He isnt treating them like trash, rather, treating the people who dont understand exactly what he meant in the OP like idiots. Thats totally deserved.
Obviously this is just my opinion and has a very good chance of being wrong, as are most of my opinions
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
maryelizbethwinstead
Profile Joined April 2011
Mexico223 Posts
April 10 2011 14:39 GMT
#244
Mr. Saracen could have definitely presented his points in a less harsh manner.

In fact, his latest reply (page 12) appears to show how easily irritated he seems to be.

In order for a rule to be just, is has to be fair on its face AND enforced fairly.

The rules, though surprisingly strict (going too far at some points, IMO), are fair. It's their forum. They can blow it to hell if they want to.

I have my doubts about the enforcer.

If a was the mod of moderators, i'd warn him.
Lord, teach me to be patient.
DarkJirachi
Profile Joined December 2010
14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 14:45:12
April 10 2011 14:43 GMT
#245
MAYBE MAYBE I am over. But there are also people who are NOT idiots, and also feel insulted or hurt? Everyone has feelings, and obviously the people who are idiots should be treated like idiots, but those who aren't will feel they are being insulted as well wont they? If your teachers or coaches talked to you in these tones, going I DONT GIVE A FLYING SHIT about your opinions, and using extremely mocking tones like MR.MASTER LEAGUE, and MR WOODEN TOY SOLDIER etc.etc, you will also be crossed and indignant about it. EVEN IF you know you did not deserve this or not meant for you.

Even if most people are not affected by such mockery and insensitivity (the tones were not meant for them), there are those who will as not every human being on this planet is unempathetic and insensitive to be not affected by such tones on others, some people may be hurt and not reflecting their feelings. Thus his method of approch on this particular matter is incorrect, albeit for a justifiable reason.

EDIT: I agree with maryelizbethwinstead, I would warn him too. Its just....not right
Perscienter
Profile Joined June 2010
957 Posts
April 10 2011 14:44 GMT
#246
I have a huge interest in more order generally and like to make many suggestions for the administration and moderation of this forum.
On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote:
For those of you posting threads:
  • If you don't properly tag your thread, your thread will be CLOSED.
  • If it's clear to me you haven't read one of the threads linked above, you will be BANNED.

I recommend making some tweaks to the software so that everyone will be forced to chose a tag from a drop-down list. That should be easy to implement. I'd also apply other colours to sticky threads, so it becomes more clear that it is mandatory to look through them. Currently there is only a purple symbol showing that they are permanent.
On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote:
  • If your thread is about a new strategy and you do not have a damn good analysis (with replays) (i.e. I think your thread is too theorycrafty), you can play against me in a BO3 with your strategy. If you lose, you will be BANNED.

That is very arbitrary and unreliable. Better look for another solution.
On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote:
  • If your post pisses me off or is just inappropriate, you will be BANNED.


...

EDIT: Some Clarification
Ok, let's settle this once and for all. I don't give a flying shit whether you're bronze league or masters league or wooden toy soldier league or ultra fantastic Justice league. If your OP sucks, it's gonna be closed, and you're gonna suffer the consequences. If Mr. wooden toy soldier league needs help with his gameplay and can't for the life of him figure out what he's doing wrong, then he should be all means post a thread analyzing his gameplay and asking for help. And if Mr. grandmaster superhero posts a two line help thread going "omfg wtf happened how did I looooze?!!?!?" he's going to get his ass banned.
If Mr. Top 200 in the US posts a discussion about a new strategy, of course it's going to have more credibility if Joe Bronze league posts a discussion about the same strategy. But if Mr. Top 200's OP sucks, it's gonna get closed, and if Joe Bronze league's OP is amazing, then it's going to be left open. Believe it or not, I trust that people in Bronze league can make just as good of OPs as any other league. We want threads to be relevant. It doesn't matter who's posting them, as long as people can get some benefit out of them.
To be honest, I don't give half a shit about how elitest you think I'm being. The bottom line is we want our Strategy Forum to be the place to go to get the highest quality information and advice. That's what separates us from other forums that you may or may not frequent. That means we can't have random bullshit posted 24-7 here, and that means we need strict moderation. If you want everybody to live in magical-unicorn-pony-shooting-rainbows-and-theorycrafting-bullshit-out-of-our-asses, then there's a site just for you. If you want real advice that you can trust is 100% correct; if you want to actually improve your gameplay; if you actually want to learn something worth learning, then come here.

Ok, I agree fully that we need a new direction in the moderation. I always said the same.

But I have some advice for you, too:
  • Watch your language! It really adds fuel to the fire and helps no one. I don't need to quote the words, you know what I'm talking about. Overly aggressive language doesn't help.
  • Your spelling is bad. Improve it or use spell-checking in the browser.

Talking about grammar and spell-checking, I suggest moderators also to look for correct spelling and grammar, too. Generally the typeface should restricted to a subtle one in the whole forum. It really hurts if I can't understand postings because someone didn't bother using language properly.
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 17:12:05
April 10 2011 15:30 GMT
#247
Saracen's tone shouldn't offend anyone it doesn't apply to, AKA good posters and writers of good OP's, and was meant to offend those who it does.

I try to make all of my answers spaced out so it's appealing to the eyes, along with writing in-depth OP's which may be have to be an entire essay by any means, but merely a little more than enough to fully describe my problems.

Now if your not like that, and you think you can get away with:

Topic: [H] PvT Dealing with Cloakshees

Content in OP: So I was playing this game and I had my bases up faster than the Terran all the time and I had larger armies and still lost because of these massed Cloakshees. How do I deal with them if Marauders are just going to kill my stalkers?

*Points Upward* Then you are meant to get yelled at right now. This is your one opportunity to shape up. That OP lacked a replay, it lacked any real analysis of why the player lost, it didn't talk about specifics, there were no time-frame reference points that we could go to where we could see "Oh yeah, this is where his 154 supply army loses to a 125 supply army..", it's just "I can't kill cloaked banshees, I took 40 seconds out of my day to write this OP, somebody take 10 minutes spoon feeding me the answers"

It's just like Saracen said: The people responding to the OP should be taking about as much time as it took for the person to write the OP. People who write OP's like the example one above deserves answers as thought out as "Get phoenixes. Marauders can't shoot up." Because that also takes 40 seconds of thinking.

And for clarification: I'm really happy about the Purge rules now that Saracen has clarified them. He isn't out to get any lower league player by any means; he's out to get crappy posters. Big thumbs up for my swarm hero.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
April 10 2011 15:38 GMT
#248
Holy shit, dropping the mother fucking hammer. Definitely going to go through those threads in the OP with a fine tooth comb. I briefly skimmed them, but now I'll be far more precise. I'm sure there will be plenty of idiots from Bnet who heard of us from random tournies or whatever who are going to rage hard, but I would rather have a small smart community than a large retard community (IE: Battle.net); which I guess is the general theme from the moderators around here. I know I'm just reiterating a lot of what the original post said, but I am just so simply excited yet terrified.
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 17:47:42
April 10 2011 15:47 GMT
#249
On April 10 2011 23:44 Perscienter wrote:
I recommend making some tweaks to the software so that everyone will be forced to chose a tag from a drop-down list. That should be easy to implement. I'd also apply other colours to sticky threads, so it becomes more clear that it is mandatory to look through them. Currently there is only a purple symbol showing that they are permanent.

But I have some advice for you, too:

Your spelling is bad. Improve it or use spell-checking in the browser.
Talking about grammar and spell-checking, I suggest moderators also to look for correct spelling and grammar, too. Generally the typeface should restricted to a subtle one in the whole forum. It really hurts if I can't understand postings because someone didn't bother using language properly.


1) A drop-down list is actually a good idea. (edit: cut out a sentence that was was based on untrue information, nvm)

2) Saracen's spelling is bad? I don't even know what to say, there is not a single spelling error in the post you referred to. Clearly, you read another post than I did.

3) I agree, bad language should be penalized somehow. It's an indicator for bad posting just as not thinking about the content of a post is, and it's sometimes painful to read. But I leave that to the mods, as this is an international community and not everyone speaks perfect English, I leave that to their judgement.
Always smile~
boon2537
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States905 Posts
April 10 2011 16:08 GMT
#250
Hell, it's about time
Hopefully this purge will make people think before posting in strategy forum :D
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5913 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 16:56:46
April 10 2011 16:56 GMT
#251
Actually, a drop down list wouldn't solve anything. In fact, it would make lazy posts harder to pick out because they would be miss labelled. Right now its quite easy to pick out what topics don't follow guidelines.

What I think would be nice is something like an interface to SC2 Reps for uploading/linking reps. And have the interface pop a message that warns the user that his thread may be banned without a replay if submitting without rep.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
noobcakes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States526 Posts
April 10 2011 16:58 GMT
#252
THANK YOU!! I'm tired of always reading terrible OPs.
Professional BattleCraft Player
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
April 10 2011 16:59 GMT
#253
These new rules are necessary to be honest. The strategy forum is already looking much better and the threads that constantly appear on top are of good quality and well written. Keep on doing on good job Sarens, this was necessary and hopefully people will think twice before posting stupid OP's
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5913 Posts
April 10 2011 17:43 GMT
#254
Nice turn around time on the rep button.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
briandawkins
Profile Joined October 2010
United States19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 19:54:44
April 10 2011 19:49 GMT
#255
On April 10 2011 22:45 DarkJirachi wrote:
I think you can stop the holier-than-thou attitude Mr Saracen. We are humans, not the stray-dogs/cats you see on the streets. Perhaps you can put your words and thoughts across in a nicer manner? And not going I-DONT-CARE-OF-WHAT-YOU-THINK-COS-U-CAN-GTFO-IF-U-DONT-LIKE-IT attitude and use a mutually exclusive tone. Being a mod has its responsibilities and its authority, please use it in a more proper way if you will, using condescending tones to members dont make you more respected. Making sense in your post and treating others politely and respecting others do. I am not disagree-ing with your actions, but it could be put across in a more proper manner

EDIT: spelling


Oh come off it already. I respect him more for that post. I don't give a shit what his manner is? If you don't like his manner, just say so. lol "mutually exclusive tone"


Edit: All the concern trolling about "scaring away new players" is ridiculous. The forum, as it is currently moderated, is scaring away good players. New and bad players will continue to read as the moderation becomes stricter and content improves.

If you are scared, then say so and say why, with reference to specific threads you have made or might make. Otherwise, chill out and enjoy the new and improved forum.
MementoMori
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada419 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 19:58:15
April 10 2011 19:51 GMT
#256
On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote:
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve. Basically, this is if I feel you are being lazy and having others do work for you when you have put in minimal effort yourself.


Please take this as constructive criticism, but I mean.. That's the case for almost everybody who could post on here, including pros. Idra could post a game and a trained eye could probably find some flaws with his macro (granted those flaws would not classify as obvious flaws, but where is the line drawn). Plus this would pretty much eliminate everyone in lower leagues from ever posting a help thread, since certainly there are obvious macro/micro problems which led to the loss.

I understand the sentiment of the rule and I agree that there should be a rule to make sure that at least the player was playing to the best of their ability. Also, I know that you cleared this up somewhat in the rest of the thread. I still think that this is going to scare off some people who might have a good contribution though (because they're the ones who are actually going to read the rules and get worried about it). My suggestion would just be to make this rule a bit clearer in terms of what you're looking for.

Totally support the initiative and I do hope the strategy forums benefit.
for the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 19:56:41
April 10 2011 19:53 GMT
#257
Holy crap some of the QQ in this thread is retarded.

All you guys that are getting your feelings hurt and your panties in a bunch need to chill out. TeamLiquid has always represented the pinnacle of Starcraft discussion in the West.

The elitist attitudes and senses of entitlement that you see around here are earned through years... yyeeaarrss of dedication to this game and this community.

I whole heartedly support a cleanup of the strategy forums, and I will applaud the warnings, deletions, and bans that are to come in the very near future.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-10 20:05:38
April 10 2011 20:00 GMT
#258
Do you guys notice how clean the strat forum is these past days? Any thread i clicked screams that it took massive work to be crated

thanks TL
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
April 10 2011 20:09 GMT
#259
They are doing a good job, and it has been pretty quiet. There are still threads like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211131 around; however, to be fair: the OP has 2 posts.
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
April 10 2011 20:13 GMT
#260
On April 11 2011 04:51 MementoMori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote:
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve. Basically, this is if I feel you are being lazy and having others do work for you when you have put in minimal effort yourself.


Please take this as constructive criticism, but I mean.. That's the case for almost everybody who could post on here, including pros. Idra could post a game and a trained eye could probably find some flaws with his macro (granted those flaws would not classify as obvious flaws, but where is the line drawn). Plus this would pretty much eliminate everyone in lower leagues from ever posting a help thread, since certainly there are obvious macro/micro problems which led to the loss.

I understand the sentiment of the rule and I agree that there should be a rule to make sure that at least the player was playing to the best of their ability. Also, I know that you cleared this up somewhat in the rest of the thread. I still think that this is going to scare off some people who might have a good contribution though (because they're the ones who are actually going to read the rules and get worried about it). My suggestion would just be to make this rule a bit clearer in terms of what you're looking for.

Totally support the initiative and I do hope the strategy forums benefit.


It applies mostly to low level players, and I think the point is if there's glaring flaws in your game its pointless to nitpick the specifics. Like if you're asking "help, TvZ how do I deal with a muta ling baneling composition" and the replay reveals you spent the entire game on 2 base while stacking 2k minerals then its just a silly question to ask
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
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