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Idra vs. Cruncher Summary and Analysis (Spoilers)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-29 00:21:11
March 28 2011 21:45 GMT
#1
I know that these games are still full of emotion for fans of every player, but try and think of these games objectively. It's made even worse by the fact that Idra is extremely vocal about his feelings on the game, but this analysis is just that, an analysis, and shouldn't be taken as saying who deserved to win. I do focus more on Idra's play in this analysis, but this does not mean that I am not objective in my approach.

Game One: EG.Idra vs coL.CrunCher

+ Show Spoiler +
Idra chose to open with a speedling expand, delaying his gas timing because he does not need the fastest possible zergling speed, an early indicator of low aggression. Cruncher meanwhile goes for a forge fast expand, this allows Idra to really drone up as he knows that no attack is coming for quite a while. This also allows Idra to get a faster third base than normal as well as delay his Lair and Roach warren. Idra is extremely active with his overlord scouting and thanks to that is able to see the void ray charging up on the back rocks. Idra got a very fast third and fourth queen which lets him quickly connect his bases with creep and he is able to defend air harass very easily with a couple of spore crawlers and queens. Idra is being extremely active with his creep spread and as per usual Idra makes some of the best drone vs. unit decisions of any player in the world. He gets the bare minimum hydralisks to defend and gets up his spire, that is beautifully timed out to finish at the same time as the first colossus, rest assured this timing is no coincidence. Idra does some more beautiful scouting with overlords and sees a fast third for Cruncher as well as the robo bay. Idra through his great decision making is up 22 drones over Cruncher at this point, but makes the interesting decision not to attempt to punish Cruncher's fast third. I think he remedies this well in the second game by scouting the same build and then really punishes the fact that Cruncher is trying to get away with too much tech too quickly. Nonetheless, Idra continues to macro up, grabbing a fourth base and making his second favorite unit in the game, drones.

I want to say that at this point it looks like Idra is far ahead, as he is ahead in drones, units, and upgrades, but he continues to sit with this while getting a fourth base up. A lot Idra's understanding with Cruncher's build is apparent by the next game where he punishes Cruncher's timings, but this game I think Idra is trying to play it safe. Idra continues his beautiful creep spread and overlord scouting while at this point it is obvious that Cruncher is trying to build up the big void ray colossus ball. As Idra begins to approach max with 1800 minerals in the bank, he knows he needs to try and make something happen before Cruncher gets too powerful as he tries to get an aggressive position on Cruncher's front. Idra goes for the attack on Cruncher's ramp but is very reluctant to sack everything and rebuild. Idra does some good damage and pulls back, using his extra food to remake more corrupters and roaches. Idra is maxed again and collecting money, he knows he needs to be aggressive while he is maxed and again pokes at the front and again pulls back, afraid to engage. Idra makes a good attempt to nydus warm in but doesn't do very much splitting of his army as he does in game two. Idra is still very hesitant with his max army, and now has over 4000 minerals in the bank. At this point Idra desperately needs more supply as protoss is approaching max on a more tech heavy army than Idra has. Idra chooses to engage the void rays with critical corrupters and loses his army in a disorganized way. Idra then reloads almost entirely on corrupters, the perfect decision. The corrupters are able to wipe the voids and half the collossus from the sky, but Idra's next reload isn't quite fast enough and his reinforcements die off to the left over gateway units and colossus of Cruncher's army, now in Idra's base and Idra is forced to gg, or rather, not gg.


Analysis:

+ Show Spoiler +
Idra could have won the game at several points here, but when against the Void colossus style, you have to be extremely careful in the late game. First, Idra's decision making throughout the game between drones and units is near flawless, he is extremely good at getting his economy and army up. He also begins to look very powerful as he plays against this style similar to how a Zerg would against a meching terran, just expanding and droning everywhere. Eventually though Idra gets to a big 200/200 army but is unable to do anything with it. I'm sure after this game a lot of people think that this style of protoss is unbeatable in a macro game; however, this game actually demonstrates that it is possible to stop.

Cruncher had two weaknesses:
1st. It was extremely easy to tell what he was doing (giving your opponent plenty of time to prepare) and
2nd. The style is very immobile (something that Idra abuses in the second game).

Idra goes for a standard army composition against a non standard protoss ball. When Idra first engages he is able to free up food, and this engagement was even very messy. He then reloads on almost pure corrupter, and this high corrupter count is nearly enough to dominate everything in the air, the issue was that he didn't have enough time to reload enough to kill the stalkers. I think that Idra could have won by doing the following:
1. When sacking his initial 200/200 food army, he did it with drops and/or nydus' to abuse mobility and buy more time.
2. Hit with the pure corrupter reload as soon as possible, rather than defensively when toss is in your base line.
3. Reload after the corrupters with roach ling or anything to clean up the likely high stalker count that will be left over.
Idra's big mistake was sloppily losing his first army doing almost no damage and then because of that having the corrupter reload come too late when protoss was too far across the map. I don't think that Zerg having to plan three full engagements to beat this style is unfair because of how easy it is to tell that protoss is doing it.

What Cruncher did Right: Cruncher did have an interesting timing that is more evident in the second game, he gets an extremely fast colossus which was able to hold on against any potential hydra play that Idra would have done. Cruncher's goal, and I thought it was obvious that the goal of void ray colossus was to get up 3 bases and max out on Voids and Colossus, Cruncher did this well, holding any pokes that happened in his base. I'm sorry I didn't mention this earlier, but I thought that Void ray colossus and it's goals were extremely obvious and Cruncher executed the turtling style well.

TL;DR what to learn:
For Zerg: How to stop the void/colossus death ball through a macro style rather than a micro style as Idra does in the second game. Also if you just generally want to know Zerg timings Idra is THE player to watch.
For Toss: How to execute the void/colossus style.


Game Two: Idra vs. coL.Cruncher

+ Show Spoiler +
Caution: Idra plays so well this game that your face might melt from the awesome. With that being said, Cruncher goes for the exact same build as last game and Idra completely demolishes him for it. Idra goes hatch first and Cruncher fakes a rush by placing a pylon inside Idra's base which Idra stops by pulling 4 drones. Once Cruncher's void ray makes its way across the map it becomes very apparent that Cruncher is doing the same build. Idra's reaction to a forge fast expand seems to be taking a fast third, and I think it may be safe to say that this is his standard reaction based on these two games. Idra sacks an overlord at 6:15 but is unable to get any good scouting information. Idra grabs his third and fourth gas much faster this game than the last and gets a hydralisk den without even a roach warren upon seeing the void ray. As he gets the hydra den he also starts ventral sacks - a sign of what to come. Idra is up 63 drones to CrunCher's 37, I actually had to pause the VOD and double check as that drone count is insane. Idra then begins Hydra range and OL speed and begins massing hydra's and making a fourth base. Idra moves his overlord's forward and prepares for a big hydra - ling drop in cruncher's main. Despite this looking like a game winning move, Cruncher's colossus manages to pop out in time to hold the drop, this aggression from Idra is happening right as Cruncher is trying to drone up his third. Idra continues dropping and abusing Cruncher's slow army. Idra continues the perfect balance of units, drones, and expansions, all while not allowing Cruncher to feel safe. Once Idra gets corrupters out and is able to isolate pockets of Cruncher's ball, he is able to harass Cruncher to death and force a gg.


Analysis:

+ Show Spoiler +
This is the perfect example of how to defeat the colossus void ball in a micro oriented style. The ball requires just that - being a ball - to survive. Idra is able abuse a late colossus timing from Cruncher with a hydra drop - as hydralisks are supreme before colossus are out, and after the first drop is able to slowly destroy Cruncher's army and economy as his army cannot be everywhere at once, even on this map where the three bases are so close together. To apply this to the first game, imagine if Idra had done this multi pronged attack with his first max army, remade corrupters, then remade roach hydra to finish off the gateway units. Either way this game is a must watch for Idra's incredible play. Also it is very useful to see how Zerg can be aggressive, while still droning.


Game Three EG.Idra vs. coL.CrunCher

+ Show Spoiler +
Idra opens pool , hatch, gas, opting to take the greedy expansion outside of his own base. Cruncher opts for a one gate expand, but gets a stalker instead of a sentry, possibly to fake a 4 gate or to deny scouting more easily. CrunCher get's up 4 more warp gates after expanding, putting him at 6 gates. CrunCher has a huge sentry count and Idra still is unable to completely scout what Cruncher is doing. Idra is playing somewhat safe, getting a few roaches and roach speed, but no burrow. Idra sees a small force of mainly sentries push out from Cruncher, and assumes that it is simply a fake attack. As the units approach Idra's front he calls what he perceives to be a bluff from Cruncher and begins 7 drones. Cruncher is able to dominate what few roaches Idra has out with excellent forcefields and take the game, with a friendly smiley face to boot.


Analysis:

+ Show Spoiler +
I cringed as I saw the pylon finish and Idra make 7 drones. If this larvae had been roaches, the game would have been much closer. Without seeing the affects of this decision to make 7 drones, it is difficult to speculate what would have happened.


Here are links to my other Analysis:
GSTL finals http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205969
IMLosira http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204274
GSL finals http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203120

Also: since everyone seems to think I'm super biased or something, I play random first before everyone claims I'm Zerg or something. I focus on the losing player, as the purpose of the review is to learn what went wrong and how to stop it. I freak out about how good Idra's play is because there is a lot to be learned from his timings, more so than there is from Cruncher. Cruncher can teach you how to do a build, because his style was "I force him to do x, or he dies" while Idra was doing the "He is doing this so I will react this way" Neither play is better than the other.

I'm personally just more excited when Idra makes a move these games because he is trying to defeat the other person's style, and this makes his decisions more exciting to watch, not better, just more exciting.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:06:33
March 28 2011 22:00 GMT
#2
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
I know that these games are still full of emotion for fans of every player, but try and think of these games objectively. It's made even worse by the fact that Idra is extremely vocal about his feelings on the game, but this analysis is just that, an analysis, and shouldn't be taken as saying who deserved to win.


Wait are you serious? I can't tell if you're trolling/being sarcastic but your game analysis is extremely biased and you made it painfully obvious that you thought Idra deserved to win.
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:07:46
March 28 2011 22:05 GMT
#3
Your analysis on game one is incorrect, Idra never had enough corruptors to dominate the air, not even enough to kill HALF of the void rays. Corruptors will never work against that many void rays. Would muta or hydra have worked better? Muta seems like the best option to me, but even once you get THAT many voids they don't far so well because by the time the mutas kill a few of them the rest are fully charged. Hydras work if you can actually get good positioning, not something a protoss of that level would ever let happen.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
March 28 2011 22:13 GMT
#4
Lol the moment IdrA saw the push out and pressed 'D' 7 times it was game over;

The forcefields were pretty cool to haha squashed them roaches.. Overall, i think your analysis was pretty IdrA biased
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:15:49
March 28 2011 22:13 GMT
#5
On March 29 2011 07:05 Treemonkeys wrote:
Your analysis on game one is incorrect, Idra never had enough corruptors to dominate the air, not even enough to kill HALF of the void rays. Corruptors will never work against that many void rays. Would muta or hydra have worked better? Muta seems like the best option to me, but even once you get THAT many voids they don't far so well because by the time the mutas kill a few of them the rest are fully charged. Hydras work if you can actually get good positioning, not something a protoss of that level would ever let happen.


The conclusion is sort of correct still though, had IdrA sacrificed his army to essentially just throw money at the protoss at the protoss' base to begin with, and used his far superior economy to whittle down the toss with massive numbers, it would have been different. First remax on corrupters, kill all colossi. Then remax on hydras, take out stalkers+void rays (hydras do quite well against both).

You need to give yourself room and time to make use of your economy, and that doesn't happen if you wait for the protoss to move out. You just need to accept that they'll have superior position at first, and throw money to take down the important units.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
March 28 2011 22:21 GMT
#6
On March 29 2011 07:13 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 07:05 Treemonkeys wrote:
Your analysis on game one is incorrect, Idra never had enough corruptors to dominate the air, not even enough to kill HALF of the void rays. Corruptors will never work against that many void rays. Would muta or hydra have worked better? Muta seems like the best option to me, but even once you get THAT many voids they don't far so well because by the time the mutas kill a few of them the rest are fully charged. Hydras work if you can actually get good positioning, not something a protoss of that level would ever let happen.


The conclusion is sort of correct still though, had IdrA sacrificed his army to essentially just throw money at the protoss at the protoss' base to begin with, and used his far superior economy to whittle down the toss with massive numbers, it would have been different. First remax on corrupters, kill all colossi. Then remax on hydras, take out stalkers+void rays (hydras do quite well against both).

You need to give yourself room and time to make use of your economy, and that doesn't happen if you wait for the protoss to move out. You just need to accept that they'll have superior position at first, and throw money to take down the important units.


Hydras do well against both but not against both at the same time, not at all. Then add in even one reinforcing colossus or some FF and they won't cut it at all. Best option of course seems to be the mondragon style attack on three fronts at once...still not great on sharkuras though.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
March 28 2011 22:23 GMT
#7
IdrA's dropplay in game 2 was simply phenomenal. Extreme amounts of apm and mirco to pull all that off. His new playstyle is simply awesome. I think zerg will be providing more crazy strats in the future.

CrunCher had an impressive opening with the void + phoenixes combo, nasty harrass that is..
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:28:04
March 28 2011 22:26 GMT
#8
On March 29 2011 07:13 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 07:05 Treemonkeys wrote:
Your analysis on game one is incorrect, Idra never had enough corruptors to dominate the air, not even enough to kill HALF of the void rays. Corruptors will never work against that many void rays. Would muta or hydra have worked better? Muta seems like the best option to me, but even once you get THAT many voids they don't far so well because by the time the mutas kill a few of them the rest are fully charged. Hydras work if you can actually get good positioning, not something a protoss of that level would ever let happen.


The conclusion is sort of correct still though, had IdrA sacrificed his army to essentially just throw money at the protoss at the protoss' base to begin with, and used his far superior economy to whittle down the toss with massive numbers, it would have been different. First remax on corrupters, kill all colossi. Then remax on hydras, take out stalkers+void rays (hydras do quite well against both).

You need to give yourself room and time to make use of your economy, and that doesn't happen if you wait for the protoss to move out. You just need to accept that they'll have superior position at first, and throw money to take down the important units.


Even with the large corruptor numbers he had, Cruncher still had two colossi left at the end. I doubt hydras and lings would have been effective.

Personally, I'm still at a loss to what beats void rays in those numbers in any sort of reasonable way. Maybe Infestors would be better? Man the Protoss deathball is scary as hell. Can someone show me a game of someone beating VR/Colossus effectively without the drop/timing attack?

Also, in game 1 compared to game 2, I doubt the dropping would have been as effective on shakuras. But it may still have worked.
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:29:58
March 28 2011 22:28 GMT
#9
On March 29 2011 07:00 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
I know that these games are still full of emotion for fans of every player, but try and think of these games objectively. It's made even worse by the fact that Idra is extremely vocal about his feelings on the game, but this analysis is just that, an analysis, and shouldn't be taken as saying who deserved to win.


Wait are you serious? I can't tell if you're trolling/being sarcastic but your game analysis is extremely biased and you made it painfully obvious that you thought Idra deserved to win.


I never once said anything like that and would really appreciate you being more specific, otherwise it looks like a blue poster came into the thread and thought I had nothing good to say immediately. In fact, I over praised Idra because I was worried that if I didn't people might think I didn't give him enough credit. No player "deserved to win" Cruncher did a build, and Idra either stopped it or he didn't, Cruncher opted for the "force my opponent to do x or die" route while Idra opted for the "he's doing this so I'll do that" route. In fact, since you read this analysis and think I thought Idra deserved to win, I would conclude more so that that is your own bias coming into the analysis.

But if you're going to blindly flame me, especially as the first post, please be more specific.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
March 28 2011 22:31 GMT
#10
I'm just curious... does anyone think Ultras would have been a pretty good choice in Game 1? He could have stomped force fields and done some nice damage to the stalkers/collosi. Hydras could have been used to clean up the void rays.

I know it's not that simple to just say "get this unit to kill this unit, and this unit to kill that unit" which is actually why I'm asking. The same goes for completely dismissing hydras because Cruncher had collosi, and dismissing broodlords/ultras because he had void rays. Battles are never that simple, but I just feel that had he used his corruptors to snipe the collosi instead of running them into all the voids that he could have used an Ultra Hydra army to do pretty well. Thoughts?
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
March 28 2011 22:32 GMT
#11
How many idra cruncher threads can we make? It was a good serious and there are many thoughts but now this taking up half the strategy forum.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
SaJa
Profile Joined November 2010
France84 Posts
March 28 2011 22:35 GMT
#12
I cannot believe that a zerg can win waiting that the protoss makes his imba deathball on 3 bases.
IdrA is complaining about late game protoss, but he leaves them arrived to this step ~~ except for game 2 where he won pretty quickly (as mondragon).

Imo, IdrA is good but he is too predictible and passive.
ranjutan
Profile Joined November 2010
United States636 Posts
March 28 2011 22:36 GMT
#13
I'm not sure why you claim you're being objective and follow that up with a very biased write-up. Well written otherwise, though.
http://i53.tinypic.com/1r3j0p.gif
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:46:14
March 28 2011 22:41 GMT
#14
On March 29 2011 07:28 confusedcrib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 07:00 Anihc wrote:
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
I know that these games are still full of emotion for fans of every player, but try and think of these games objectively. It's made even worse by the fact that Idra is extremely vocal about his feelings on the game, but this analysis is just that, an analysis, and shouldn't be taken as saying who deserved to win.


Wait are you serious? I can't tell if you're trolling/being sarcastic but your game analysis is extremely biased and you made it painfully obvious that you thought Idra deserved to win.


I never once said anything like that and would really appreciate you being more specific, otherwise it looks like a blue poster came into the thread and thought I had nothing good to say immediately. In fact, I over praised Idra because I was worried that if I didn't people might think I didn't give him enough credit. No player "deserved to win" Cruncher did a build, and Idra either stopped it or he didn't, Cruncher opted for the "force my opponent to do x or die" route while Idra opted for the "he's doing this so I'll do that" route. In fact, since you read this analysis and think I thought Idra deserved to win, I would conclude more so that that is your own bias coming into the analysis.

But if you're going to blindly flame me, especially as the first post, please be more specific.


Wow you are incredibly blind. First of all everything is written from Idra's point of view. And everything he does is god-like:

On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Idra makes some of the best drone vs. unit decisions of any player in the world.

beautifully timed out to finish at the same time as the first colossus, rest assured this timing is no coincidence.

Idra does some more beautiful scouting with overlords

Idra through his great decision making is up 22 drones over Cruncher at this point

Idra then reloads almost entirely on corrupters, the perfect decision.

Idra's decision making throughout the game between drones and units is near flawless

Idra plays so well this game that your face might melt from the awesome.

this game is a must watch for Idra's incredible play



What do you say about Cruncher? Nothing. You make it seem like Cruncher is some brainless overmind playing an OP race, and Idra is our protagonist trying to overcome all odds to beat him. Here's the only good thing you say about Cruncher's play:

On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Cruncher is able to dominate what few roaches Idra has out with excellent forcefields and take the game, with a friendly, non sarcastic, non manner smiley face to boot.


Oh wait, but you can't just give him a good word for free! You then proceed to mention that he's BM. Not only does manner have nothing to do with objective game analysis, I can't believe you're pointing out Cruncher for being BM to Idra. IDRA. LOL.

EDIT: Sorry, I realize I'm kinda derailing this thread a bit. I promise I'll try to add to the strategical discussion soon. The OP's actual analysis isn't tooooooo bad.
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
March 28 2011 22:47 GMT
#15
On March 29 2011 07:35 SaJa wrote:
I cannot believe that a zerg can win waiting that the protoss makes his imba deathball on 3 bases.
IdrA is complaining about late game protoss, but he leaves them arrived to this step ~~ except for game 2 where he won pretty quickly (as mondragon).

Imo, IdrA is good but he is too predictible and passive.

The problem is that aggression in ZvP against colossus is incredibly difficult on that map due to the amount of chokes.
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:50:58
March 28 2011 22:48 GMT
#16
On March 29 2011 07:41 Anihc wrote:
Wow you are incredibly blind. First of all everything is written from Idra's point of view. And everything he does is god-like:

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Idra makes some of the best drone vs. unit decisions of any player in the world.

beautifully timed out to finish at the same time as the first colossus, rest assured this timing is no coincidence.

Idra does some more beautiful scouting with overlords

Idra through his great decision making is up 22 drones over Cruncher at this point

Idra then reloads almost entirely on corrupters, the perfect decision.

Idra's decision making throughout the game between drones and units is near flawless

Idra plays so well this game that your face might melt from the awesome.

this game is a must watch for Idra's incredible play



What do you say about Cruncher? Nothing. You make it seem like Cruncher is some brainless overmind playing an OP race, and Idra is our protagonist trying to overcome all odds to beat him. Here's the only good thing you say about Cruncher's play:

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Cruncher is able to dominate what few roaches Idra has out with excellent forcefields and take the game, with a friendly, non sarcastic, non manner smiley face to boot.


Oh wait, but you can't just give him a good word for free! You then proceed to mention that he's BM. Not only does manner have nothing to do with objective game analysis, I can't believe you're pointing out Cruncher for being BM to Idra. IDRA. LOL.


Thank you for being more specific, but I would also ask that you calm down. I thought I mentioned Idra's bm in the first two games but it turns out that I didn't, I'll go change that now. I edited my OP to explain more as well, but I always focus on the losing player, as that is where the analysis of how to win can happen. Anyone can look at Cruncher and go, that's a good build, and learn how to do it just by watching, but the real analysis is focused on Idra's loss and how to beat the void colossus style. If you want to learn how Cruncher won you can just watch it yourself, that doesn't need analysis. In the game Cruncher lost, I thought I made it clear that this was a build order type of loss where Cruncher just doesn't get colossus up fast, that an inherent risk in the build.
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MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
March 28 2011 22:49 GMT
#17
On March 29 2011 07:41 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 07:28 confusedcrib wrote:
On March 29 2011 07:00 Anihc wrote:
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
I know that these games are still full of emotion for fans of every player, but try and think of these games objectively. It's made even worse by the fact that Idra is extremely vocal about his feelings on the game, but this analysis is just that, an analysis, and shouldn't be taken as saying who deserved to win.


Wait are you serious? I can't tell if you're trolling/being sarcastic but your game analysis is extremely biased and you made it painfully obvious that you thought Idra deserved to win.


I never once said anything like that and would really appreciate you being more specific, otherwise it looks like a blue poster came into the thread and thought I had nothing good to say immediately. In fact, I over praised Idra because I was worried that if I didn't people might think I didn't give him enough credit. No player "deserved to win" Cruncher did a build, and Idra either stopped it or he didn't, Cruncher opted for the "force my opponent to do x or die" route while Idra opted for the "he's doing this so I'll do that" route. In fact, since you read this analysis and think I thought Idra deserved to win, I would conclude more so that that is your own bias coming into the analysis.

But if you're going to blindly flame me, especially as the first post, please be more specific.


Wow you are incredibly blind. First of all everything is written from Idra's point of view. And everything he does is god-like:

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Idra makes some of the best drone vs. unit decisions of any player in the world.

beautifully timed out to finish at the same time as the first colossus, rest assured this timing is no coincidence.

Idra does some more beautiful scouting with overlords

Idra through his great decision making is up 22 drones over Cruncher at this point

Idra then reloads almost entirely on corrupters, the perfect decision.

Idra's decision making throughout the game between drones and units is near flawless

Idra plays so well this game that your face might melt from the awesome.

this game is a must watch for Idra's incredible play



What do you say about Cruncher? Nothing. You make it seem like Cruncher is some brainless overmind playing an OP race, and Idra is our protagonist trying to overcome all odds to beat him. Here's the only good thing you say about Cruncher's play:

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2011 06:45 confusedcrib wrote:
Cruncher is able to dominate what few roaches Idra has out with excellent forcefields and take the game, with a friendly, non sarcastic, non manner smiley face to boot.


Oh wait, but you can't just give him a good word for free! You then proceed to mention that he's BM. Not only does manner have nothing to do with objective game analysis, I can't believe you're pointing out Cruncher for being BM to Idra. IDRA. LOL.

EDIT: Sorry, I realize I'm kinda derailing this thread a bit. I promise I'll try to add to the strategical discussion soon. The OP's actual analysis isn't tooooooo bad.

To be fair, cruncher didn't really do anything special or out there. I'll agree that the first game analysis deserves more crucher focus, however, because he didn't win with a build order and he didn't lose horribly.
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 22:50:40
March 28 2011 22:50 GMT
#18
I stopped after reading your Game 1 description. You say you will to some objective recap, but the only thing I saw was "Idra did X beautifully, Idra did Y perfectly, ...". You might have the best analysis out there and I am sorry for skipping that but you do not seem objective at all here, as I see other people have noticed as well
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
March 28 2011 22:55 GMT
#19
In Game1 Idra could have easily won but he made some mistakes.

Why did he first max with roaches? It was obvious that Cruncher is going for a 200/200 Deathball from 3Base. Instead of getting only 10 Corrupters which cant do anything against that many voids he had to make like 30 Corrupters in the FIRST attack, not with the remaxing of his army. Then when was maxed he didnt really engage Cruncher but only poked a lttle bit at his front without doing damage and trying a very obvious Nydus Worm. This gave Cruncher enough time to max. He should just had sacrifice only his roaches so he can build much more corrupters.

When he remaxed with a lot of corrupters he should have focused the Colossi first instead of a-moving into the ball. After killing every Colossi he can send in his roach/hydra to help against the ground army and the remaining void rays. Idra a-moved and so the collossi killed his hydras in matter of seconds.

I think idra was in a great position to win this game but botched it by maxing with a wrong unitcompositon.
NesTea <3
waffleduck
Profile Joined August 2010
125 Posts
March 28 2011 22:55 GMT
#20
The reason he was able to win G2 and not G1 really just came down to the maps. G2 cruncher was more spread out and vulnerable to harass and this was not the case on Shak.

People criticizing idra for building drones in G3 are just ignorant though, he lost because there is no way to 100% know what the correct unit choice is there. He had to make an educated guess and he got it wrong which lost him the game (he probably thought it was a fake push-out to hinder idras eco while he went void-collo again).
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