EPTOverall hydras are horribly designed units, though. They just contribute to the whole "Zerg is easily hard-countered and massacred, while Zerg can only soft-counter the other races to have a fair fight" dynamic. Plus they're totally one-dimensional with no abilities besides attacking.
[Q] Hydra vs Roach DPS - Page 2
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RoKetha
United States211 Posts
Overall hydras are horribly designed units, though. They just contribute to the whole "Zerg is easily hard-countered and massacred, while Zerg can only soft-counter the other races to have a fair fight" dynamic. Plus they're totally one-dimensional with no abilities besides attacking. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On March 05 2011 06:17 LoLAdriankat wrote: When you send a big ball of roaches into a big ball of units with longer range than roaches, then the roaches are at a high disadvantage. This is because the opponent's ball will still be partially safe from the roaches while the roaches are fully exposed.. This is amplified when that ball of long range units are smaller, thus having a higher DPS density (marines). I did a good bit of testing and realized the real problem with roach vs marine in large numbers. It's not unit density or dps or anything like that, its missile travel time. Roaches tend to overkill close marines when you get into numbers that big, with 5-8 roaches shooting each marine to kill it, even though it would die with 3 shots, effectively cutting their already low DPS in half. Meanwhile, every marine is getting the full use of its damage due to instant damage. This is the big problem with Roach vs marine... The stats are still screwed, but its the overkill that really does it. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
But a 200/200 roach/hydra army will be a lot better then a 200/200 roach army | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On March 05 2011 07:05 Jermstuddog wrote: I did a good bit of testing and realized the real problem with roach vs marine in large numbers. It's not unit density or dps or anything like that, its missile travel time. Roaches tend to overkill close marines when you get into numbers that big, with 5-8 roaches shooting each marine to kill it, even though it would die with 3 shots, effectively cutting their already low DPS in half. Meanwhile, every marine is getting the full use of its damage due to instant damage. This is the big problem with Roach vs marine... The stats are still screwed, but its the overkill that really does it. Ah. Interesting. Thanks for the testing, I hope it comes to Blizzard's attention. | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
To help players improve their play, one should take a part of the game (a matchup, a unit composition, a stage of the game), and then take all facts in consideration. Without stating that it is exhaustive, this thread was actually helpful: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196428 | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On March 05 2011 07:01 RoKetha wrote: Roaches actually scale better damage-wise than Hydras do because Roaches gain +2 attack while Hydras gain +1, so when the enemy has +3 armor to your +3 attack, Roaches will be doing 19 damage while Hydras still do 12. But yeah, hydras are better when they aren't being hit and when roaches will not be able to get in range, although they have other drawbacks like not being able to retreat and heal or counterattack. i guess you should learn the difference between damage and dps... hydra scale better with upgrades then Roaches. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 05 2011 07:01 RoKetha wrote: Roaches actually scale better damage-wise than Hydras do because Roaches gain +2 attack while Hydras gain +1, so when the enemy has +3 armor to your +3 attack, Roaches will be doing 19 damage while Hydras still do 12. But yeah, hydras are better when they aren't being hit and when roaches will not be able to get in range, although they have other drawbacks like not being able to retreat and heal or counterattack. Overall hydras are horribly designed units, though. They just contribute to the whole "Zerg is easily hard-countered and massacred, while Zerg can only soft-counter the other races to have a fair fight" dynamic. Plus they're totally one-dimensional with no abilities besides attacking. Hydralisk does 14.5 DPS, +1.2 per upgrade. Roach does 8 DPS, +1 per upgrade. Against a target with 3 armor, a hydralisk deals 10.8 dps, and 14.5 with +3. That's a 3.7 upgrade, some small rounding errors, but it's about +1.2 dps per upgrade. The roach only goes up by +1 per upgrade. But that should be obvious: armor is more effective against weak, fast attackers than strong, slow attackers. If the enemy does not have armor equal to your upgrades however, they hydralisk scales better. Let's look at a unit with no armor upgrades, but a base armor. Let's take the stalker for example, base armor of 1. Roach DPS vs. stalker: 7.5, the armor is a .5 dps loss for the roach. Hydralisk: 13.25 dps, 1.25 dps drop from armor. Upgrade both with +1: roach dps is now 8.5, hydralisk is now at 14.5, back to normal. At +2, roach is at 9.5, hydralisk is at 15.7. At +3, Roach is at 10.5, hydralisk is at 16.8. Each +1 upgrade increases the roach's dps by 1, but the hydralisks' dps goes up by about 1.2 (I rounded slightly). Clearly, the hydralisk scales better against low armor targets. Now let's look at the ultralisk with full armor upgrades: 6 armor. +0 roach: 5 dps +0 hydralisk: 7.2 +3 roach: 8 DPS, a +1 dps increase per +1 upgrade. +3 hydralisk: 10.8 DPS, a 1.2 dps increase per +1 upgrade. So in other words, hydralisks scale better than roaches with upgrades. It just so happens that roaches are less effected by high armor targets, but hydralisks still scale better. | ||
falstag
United States55 Posts
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