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| GRIFFITH'S MAGIC BOX |
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I've written an iterative script in the map editor that accurately and precisely determined the size of the magic box. Note that the mutalisk magic box is only a special case of the general property of magic boxes, so for the sake of clarity, the general magic box will be referred to as "Griffith's Magic Box".
As long as your units are within Griffith's Magic Box, they will move in formation, so long as they avoid tight choke points like ramps. A bit of note for attack move on the bottom.
The following values are accurate to 0.02 precision decimals for pure unit compositions:
Mutalisk, Medivac, Phoenix, Banshee: 6.480
Overlord: 5.980
Carriers: 5.401
Zerglings, Marines, High Templars, Ghosts, Banelings: 5.241
Zealots, Roaches, Sentries: 4.990
Marauder: 4.862
Stalkers : 4.742
Hellion: 4.380
Tanks: 4.241
For example, so long as your marines are within a 5.241x5.241 box they will always move in formation. To provide you with a feeling of how big the 5.241x5.241 box is:
http://i.imgur.com/VQm8h.png
Mixed unit groups are rather complicated to deal with with varying results, but in general, the mixed magic box inherit the size of the smallest pure unit magic box.
Implications:
The Key Crux of the magic box is that you no longer have to split units a million ways during the fight. Instead, you can preparing your splitting long before the fight by assigning the setup groups to hotkeys.
TvZ
The marine magic box can roughly fit ~10 marines that are spread out. Meaning it is MUCH MUCH easier to deal with banelings and fungal growths because you can split marines way ahead of time.
PvT
The HT and Sentry magic box provides ample room for to spread out sentries and HTs. This will make it much harder for ghosts to roffle-EMP an entire group of spellcasters.
ZvT
Spread banelings will prove to be extremely useful against siege tanks.
TvP
Hard to say. For bio based play it will make storms and colossi splash less effective.
About Attack Move
I you attack move - the instant an enemy is within attack range, you will lose formation and units will arrange in a formation to attack the units. You can avoid this by M - moving to the ideal point then either A-move or Stop.
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OMG HE INVENTED THE MAGIC BOX I HOPE TASTOSIS USES THE TERM "GRIFFITHING" TOMORROW!!!
User was warned for this post
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The use I'm seeing is when the opponent has infestors and you need to stim ahead a small bundle of units in order to kill the infestors so they can't fungal you while you're moving.
Not at home at the moment so I can't test this, but pre-emptive high-five if this works, I'll give it a try later.
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that's pretty cool. in bw the only magic box size distinction is whether the unit is air or ground
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Seems solid... need to test it out. FG, storm and splash damage come to mind where this can be useful.
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On February 22 2011 05:58 Toxi78 wrote:
OMG HE INVENTED THE MAGIC BOX I HOPE TASTOSIS USES THE TERM "GRIFFITHING" TOMORROW!!!
Are you really born in 78?
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Although just a tad egotistical to just name something that's been known (in general; for one unit) for awhile now, having the exact size of the box is pretty good information.
Do speed upgrades affect the size of the Magic Box (For zerglings/banelings)?
You give the numbers for pure unit combinations- is this because mixed unit comps don't work, or did you just not test them?
Does going on/coming off creep affect the Magic Boxing of zerg units? (I would think it would break it- but you're the one with the tester.)
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On February 22 2011 06:12 Keifru wrote:
Although just a tad egotistical to just name something that's been known (in general; for one unit) for awhile now, having the exact size of the box is pretty good information.
Do speed upgrades affect the size of the Magic Box (For zerglings/banelings)?
You give the numbers for pure unit combinations- is this because mixed unit comps don't work, or did you just not test them?
Speed upgrades have no effect. The box sizes seem to be a function of Movement - Radius property. Unit comps will generally inherit the smallest pure magic box size. But there were some weird exceptions where it averages (like 1 marauder and 3 marines)
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so you just split up your army into different hotkeys..?
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This is also pretty useful for making staggard lines of zerglings/marines to engage colossi- you can arrange them so that only one zergling takes the alpha strike- just set them up in a zig-zag pattern.
Hrm.
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Holy shit. This is quite interesting... could be very useful knowledge for the early game.
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On February 22 2011 06:17 Ponyo wrote:
so you just split up your army into different hotkeys..?
Yes, my key is set up so I have 4 groups (1-4) for army control
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OMG it actually works! This is huge! Bye bye tanks splashing my banes
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This may seem like a noob question. But how do you magic box? I'm a 3.3K+ masters Zerg and don't know how to oO lol
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On February 22 2011 06:25 Phee wrote:
This may seem like a noob question. But how do you magic box? I'm a 3.3K+ masters Zerg and don't know how to oO lol
With mutas you press hold pos.
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this is actually huge, to keep units spread on ground properly!
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Griffith's Magic Box™ should be used in conjunction with Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push™. That way, when you build Grififth's Marines™ you can completely decimate ling/baneling until you have enough factories to produce Griffith's Tanks™. Eventually, I think Griffith's Magic Box™, and really Griffith's ZvT Strategy™ in general will revolutionize Griffith's Starcraft 2™.
Edit: all joking aside this is actually a pretty cool find.
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On February 22 2011 06:29 OmNomSpy wrote:
Griffith's Magic Box™ should be used in conjunction with Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push™. That way, when you build Grififth's Marines™ you can completely decimate ling/baneling until you have enough factories to produce Griffith's Tanks™. Eventually, I think Griffith's Magic Box™, and really Griffith's ZvT Strategy™ in general will revolutionize Griffith's Starcraft 2™.
Edit: all joking aside this is actually a pretty cool find.
Haha couldn't resist could you?
Anyway, this only seems practical in the early stages of the game where unit counts are low and they can fit in the box.
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On February 22 2011 06:28 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 06:25 Phee wrote:
This may seem like a noob question. But how do you magic box? I'm a 3.3K+ masters Zerg and don't know how to oO lol With mutas you press hold pos.
And is the hold button used with all of the other units as well?
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On February 22 2011 06:29 OmNomSpy wrote:
Griffith's Magic Box™ should be used in conjunction with Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push™. That way, when you build Grififth's Marines™ you can completely decimate ling/baneling until you have enough factories to produce Griffith's Tanks™. Eventually, I think Griffith's Magic Box™, and really Griffith's ZvT Strategy™ in general will revolutionize Griffith's Starcraft 2™.
Edit: all joking aside this is actually a pretty cool find.
This is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
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Nice find. This should go in Liquipedia if anyone still takes care of that thing.
I'm Zerg players should really take note for the banelings.
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Don't name stuff after yourself that's been known since brood war. There have been a few threads on this in the sc2 forums as well.
It's nice that you got the exact values, though, very helpful. 
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On February 22 2011 06:36 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Nice find. This should go in Liquipedia if anyone still takes care of that thing.
it should, but not under Griffith's name, because he didn't invent the box, he just discovered it.
I usually have too many banes to magic box them all anyway...but it is a cool find.
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This looks very good for early and mid-game.
I can finally A-attack my marines into banes! I can expand without pissing my pants!
On a serious note, I'm a bit concerned about Banes. If every Zerg player has Banes on a separate hotkey like they should, they could potentially maximize their effect by reducing tank splash in a very significant way, even in midgame.
And you can't magic box your marines in the same way simply because you'll have too many of them...
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I would have to test it, but if this could make marines and marauders suck a little less against siege tanks I am excited. Banelings worry me a bit though, that whole situation is so fragile as it is and if they can roll into tank lines and blow up marines with impunity it will be very difficult.
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On February 22 2011 07:35 Kukaracha wrote:
This looks very good for early and mid-game.
I can finally A-attack my marines into banes! I can expand without pissing my pants!
On a serious note, I'm a bit concerned about Banes. If every Zerg player has Banes on a separate hotkey like they should, they could potentially maximize their effect by reducing tank splash in a very significant way, even in midgame.
And you can't magic box your marines in the same way simply because you'll have too many of them...
You can't exactly a-move because the instant marines are in baneling range the marines will move out of formation to attack the banelings. What you do is you use move command then press S. Similar concept to mutalisk magic box, move over the units and press H.
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Interesting stuff mate. Had a lot of fun with your 4OC build, so will definitely be trying this. Nice one
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I must be missing something, this just looks like someone renaming the magic box. I don't understand the implications. It says you can just use different hotkeys... what?
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On February 22 2011 09:43 Salv wrote:
I must be missing something, this just looks like someone renaming the magic box. I don't understand the implications. It says you can just use different hotkeys... what?
He checked the magic box sizes for several different units, and pointed out to SC2 players that you can use magic boxes on the ground as well as in the air.
I'm hoping the "Griffith's" crap is tongue-in-cheek and he's aware that magic boxes were used extensively in BW for ground units as well as air units.
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On February 22 2011 09:58 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 09:43 Salv wrote:
I must be missing something, this just looks like someone renaming the magic box. I don't understand the implications. It says you can just use different hotkeys... what? He checked the magic box sizes for several different units, and pointed out to SC2 players that you can use magic boxes on the ground as well as in the air. I'm hoping the "Griffith's" crap is tongue-in-cheek and he's aware that magic boxes were used extensively in BW for ground units as well as air units.
Don't take the Griffith's stuff too seriously lol
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On February 22 2011 09:58 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 09:43 Salv wrote:
I must be missing something, this just looks like someone renaming the magic box. I don't understand the implications. It says you can just use different hotkeys... what? He checked the magic box sizes for several different units, and pointed out to SC2 players that you can use magic boxes on the ground as well as in the air. I'm hoping the "Griffith's" crap is tongue-in-cheek and he's aware that magic boxes were used extensively in BW for ground units as well as air units.
We've had threads on here before pointing out that you can magic box with any unit. Measuring the exact size of the effect is useful, however.
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It's my magic box because I found the precise dimensions of it.
Thanks for the effort / pic.
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interesting, 5 blink stalkers in a conga line make an efficient colossus strike force. blink right in front of the colossus, over the front line of battle. In this way 5 stalkers can beat 2 colossus handily while they lose if you engage as a normal blob. Microing the colossus back doesn't really help they have to step forward onto the stalkers to get splash on the stalker line easily which has its own problems.
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So...
What this means is... If I have marines Vs Banes for example...
I have 40 marines.
I place 10 marines each in ctrl groups 1 through 4. When I have them on a MOVE command or a STOP command, if banes run into them, they will receive no splash damage?
Please clarify as this is confusing. Muta magic box is understandable... but this... not so much.
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I can definitely see some scouting implications with this in zvt
[theorycraft]
I don't mind losing 1 zergling to siege fire, but sometimes it's cumbersome to micro 2 zerglings in and out of siege range to get some information.
If I just 4-corner zerglings, no single zergling is in range of another via siege fire, and I can get the information I need while only losing 1 zergling.
[/theorycraft]
I'll try and test it out in a game and post the results if it's good.
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Random question, does patrol have any effect on this?
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On February 22 2011 12:08 RudrA wrote:
So...
What this means is... If I have marines Vs Banes for example...
I have 40 marines.
I place 10 marines each in ctrl groups 1 through 4. When I have them on a MOVE command or a STOP command, if banes run into them, they will receive no splash damage?
Please clarify as this is confusing. Muta magic box is understandable... but this... not so much.
I think what he's saying is that you can split up a pile of marines in a scattered formation like so:
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X
As long as they are within the dimensions, you can move them and they will stay in that scattered formation. So if you do this with 4 hotkey groups, it would look like:
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X X
And you could move them all like that. Overall I don't think anyone will use this, and this has been known about for years if you were a SC BW player.
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Just wondering I know you show a pic of your 5.241x5.241 square but is that 5.241 building squares?
Also rather than posting magic box sizes woulnt the maximum number of each unit you can fit into their respective box sizes help more? like instead of saying roachs 4.99 you could say 15 roachs is the most you can fit in that square so spread your roachs into groups of no more than 15 to obtain the magic box or am I just off my rocker here?
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On February 22 2011 14:13 SC2-Dethklok wrote:
Just wondering I know you show a pic of your 5.241x5.241 square but is that 5.241 building squares?
Also rather than posting magic box sizes woulnt the maximum number of each unit you can fit into their respective box sizes help more? like instead of saying roachs 4.99 you could say 15 roachs is the most you can fit in that square so spread your roachs into groups of no more than 15 to obtain the magic box or am I just off my rocker here?
I believe the number represents the furthest away the units can be from each other and still maintain formation. A box filled with shoulder to shoulder units isn't very useful for avoiding splash damage, and how many units you can fit into the box while avoiding splash will depend on the source of the splash damage.
Muta magic box just happens to be incredibly easy because their idling distance from each other is enough to negate the main source of splash damage against them (the thor).
The information above differs in that ground units won't automatically spread to an ideal distance away from each other when they're idle, but rather, they must be positioned manually at that distance (which varies depending on which source of splash damage you're trying to avoid).
For instance (and these numbers are completely made up), lets say you can fit a maximum of 16 marines max into the box where they will maintain their formation in order to avoid Tank splash, but only 9 marines will fit into the same box to avoid Baneling splash. So, you see, giving the number of units that CAN fit into the box doesn't really help.
I could see this being very nice for Stop-Fire formations for attacking into Siege Lines or engaging/disengaging Banelings.
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Most people that invent or discover something don't name it after themselves. The community bestows that endowment on them.
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I already did tests on the exact size, and posted them in the magic box baneling threads a while ago.
The box is 6x6 building blocks for all ground units, and 7x7 for all air units.
Any unit must fit completely inside the magic box.
This way of looking at it is imo just a ton easier, instead of looking at it from the middle of a unit, and having different measures for each unit, based on their size.
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lol Griffith´s magic box
U must be really egocentric.
Why every your little tiny advice must by Griffith´s XXXXX (if it isnt new)?
Griffith's Magic Box™ should be used in conjunction with Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push™. That way, when you build Grififth's Marines™ you can completely decimate ling/baneling until you have enough factories to produce Griffith's Tanks™. Eventually, I think Griffith's Magic Box™, and really Griffith's ZvT Strategy™ in general will revolutionize Griffith's Starcraft 2™.
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On February 22 2011 05:54 Griffith` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +---------------------------------------- | GRIFFITH'S MAGIC BOX | ---------------------------------------- I've written an iterative script in the map editor that accurately and precisely determined the size of the magic box. Note that the mutalisk magic box is only a special case of the general property of magic boxes, so for the sake of clarity, the general magic box will be referred to as "Griffith's Magic Box". As long as your units are within Griffith's Magic Box, they will move in formation, so long as they avoid tight choke points like ramps. A bit of note for attack move on the bottom. The following values are accurate to 0.02 precision decimals for pure unit compositions: Mutalisk, Medivac, Phoenix, Banshee: 6.480 Carriers: 5.401 Zerglings, Marines, High Templars, Ghosts, Banelings: 5.241 Zealots, Roaches, Sentries: 4.990 Marauder: 4.862 Stalkers : 4.742 Hellion: 4.380 Tanks: 4.241 For example, so long as your marines are within a 5.241x5.241 box they will always move in formation. To provide you with a feeling of how big the 5.241x5.241 box is: http://i.imgur.com/VQm8h.pngMixed unit groups are rather complicated to deal with with varying results, but in general, the mixed magic box inherit the size of the smallest pure unit magic box. Implications:The Key Crux of the magic box is that you no longer have to split units a million ways during the fight. Instead, you can preparing your splitting long before the fight by assigning the setup groups to hotkeys. TvZThe marine magic box can roughly fit ~10 marines that are spread out. Meaning it is MUCH MUCH easier to deal with banelings and fungal growths because you can split marines way ahead of time. PvTThe HT and Sentry magic box provides ample room for to spread out sentries and HTs. This will make it much harder for ghosts to roffle-EMP an entire group of spellcasters. ZvTSpread banelings will prove to be extremely useful against siege tanks. TvPHard to say. For bio based play it will make storms and colossi splash less effective. About Attack MoveI you attack move - the instant an enemy is within attack range, you will lose formation and units will arrange in a formation to attack the units. You can avoid this by M - moving to the ideal point then either A-move or Stop.
Massive props. So glad you did this. Was planning to but I'll piggyback your hard work
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nice revelation :D
i hope somebody makes a youtube tutorial on this to fully understand
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United Arab Emirates660 Posts
would you please post a replay? would be awesome!.
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Wow. This is SO awesome. Nice find dude!
I'm gonna echo a few of the questions here:
How does patrol affect this?
Other than having more space to split marines, does having a preset formation help at all with reducing baneling splash?
Thanks again! This is so high level :D
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Oh yes, what about Overlords? Formation baneling carpet bomb would be really nice :D.
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i hope somebody makes a youtube tutorial on this to fully understand
Its not really very hard to understand.
Read http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Magic_box
That explains it perfectly
The only difference in SC2, is that the unit must fall entirely within the box, this goes for magic box, and minimum unit selection box.
The box is 6x6 sensor towers/building blocks for ground, 7x7 for air.
Or if you wanna go by minimum required to select the units, or by the middle of the units, then the sizes will differ for units of verying sizes, and you can use the complicated measures from griffifths.
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On February 23 2011 00:00 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Oh yes, what about Overlords? Formation baneling carpet bomb would be really nice :D.
Overlord box size is about 5.980
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On February 23 2011 00:41 morimacil wrote:Its not really very hard to understand. Read http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Magic_boxThat explains it perfectly The only difference in SC2, is that the unit must fall entirely within the box, this goes for magic box, and minimum unit selection box. The box is 6x6 sensor towers/building blocks for ground, 7x7 for air. Or if you wanna go by minimum required to select the units, or by the middle of the units, then the sizes will differ for units of verying sizes, and you can use the complicated measures from griffifths.
I think it has more to do with Movement - Radius and Movement - Separation radius property of the units and not so much the actual physical unit size.
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Here is a rough picture, excuse my paint skills.
![[image loading]](http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/762/magicboxu.jpg)
Both the marines, and the tanks, are as far appart as possible while still maintaining the magic box properties.
The black lines demonstrates my way of calculating what fits inside the box:
The selection circle of the unit must fit completely inside the box. Using that, we arrive at a single measurement for all units, and can easily make boxes that contain different types of units, and so on.
One size fits all.
You, as far as I can tell, calculated either from the blue lines, middle of the units, or from the minimum possible selection box for the units. That gives you different results for each size of units, because they have a different selection radius.
A bit harder to visualize, remember, and work with.
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While the magic box is at an advantage over AoE units and spells, it puts you at a disadvantage against their non-aoe support and provides a huge bonus in melee effectiveness which often times you'll run into first. Protecting your casters from EMP's with the magic box should be a non-issue, but spreading your marines and marauders to protect them from storms while they still have their Zeal Meat Shields and Stalkers may very will prove to be a case where you would much rather have just kept your units in a ball. Ling/Bling play is often very APM intensive on the Zerg's part and I rarely see a Sling Bling player hold back on their blings against split marines and opting instead to clean up with their Sling Swarm scoring surrounds on 5+ different smaller Marine Groups. But I rarely see this sort of play (And I'm interested in how MKP would respond to the Blings just rolling by his marine splits with Slings filling in the spaces between em).
But yeah, I certainly would like to see what sort of risk vs rewards you get out of this.
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Well it kinda depends on a lot of things, and sure, its not optimal to have your units spread out all the time no matter what.
sling-bling is strong because slings are good if you split up, blings are good if you clump up.
but there are definitely situations in which you wanna spread out.
Terran doesnt really have all that much that can punish you from being spread out.
10 zealots vs 10 siege tanks, 10 zealots die, 1 siege tank is damaged.
10 spread out zealots vs 10 siege tanks, you can kill 3 tanks.
The advantage to having them clumped up vs siege tanks, is that they will reach the target a tiny bit earlier, since they are a tiny bit more forward.
But if the front zealots dont actually ever reach the target, then that advantage doesnt exist, and spreading them out is better.
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My name is Griffith, thank you for naming this after me. Your tribute to my skill and wisdom will not be forgotten.
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Why not call it peter griffin's magic box? it's logical
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On February 22 2011 06:33 Phee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 06:28 iChau wrote:On February 22 2011 06:25 Phee wrote:
This may seem like a noob question. But how do you magic box? I'm a 3.3K+ masters Zerg and don't know how to oO lol With mutas you press hold pos. And is the hold button used with all of the other units as well?
Yes, hold can also be used with marines-marauders-roaches-hellions for kiting. Also, you can use stop as well, which is what I do mostly. One exception: I'm magic boxing a thor with marines in the mix, if I use stop there, marines will draw attention from mutas and not all mutas will attack to thor. But, that doesn't mean that using Hold instead of Stop will not get attention to marines if marines shoot. After holding, you can give an a-click to thor to prevent mutas from getting distracted by marines. I didn't test that, but I don't think it will fail either.
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If only people could stop calling technique's after themselves. It's just pretentious.
About the technique, I can see it being quite useful to avoid splash damage's, but it seems rather hard to implement with lots of units as they have small magic boxes.
It might be useful to state how many units in general would fit into the box.
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If only people could stop calling technique's after themselves. It's just pretentious.
Well we can only assume that he was trying to be funny here.
I mean, renaming the magic box to giffifiths magic box just because he made a thread about it, is about as logical as if I made a thread about the fact that macro still exists in SC 2, and therefore keeping your money low should now be reffered to as "morimacil macro".
Its illogical, and its not going to happen. So we have to just assume he was going for a humor effect, and just keep calling magic boxes what they are, instead of trying to suddenly call them griffithfths's magic boxes because he made a thread about them.
About the technique, I can see it being quite useful to avoid splash damage's, but it seems rather hard to implement with lots of units as they have small magic boxes.
It might be useful to state how many units in general would fit into the box.
How many units would fit inside a box depends on how spread out you want them to be.
Since the whole point of using the magic box is to be able to have your units spread out, and remain so, telling you exactly how many units will fit inside a box doesnt really do all that much.
http://img10.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=screenshot2011022315002.jpg
Here is a couple of pictures that might help you familiarize youself with the size of the box.
Another easy way to familiarize yourself with the size, is to just take 2 units, spread them out, and then spam click somewhere. First time you click, they will start to converge on that location. eventually though, they will be close enough together to fit inside the box, and thus if you are spam clicking, the new order will overwrite the old one, and they will move towards the location as a formation, instead of individual units moving there.
Look at how far appart they are, and thats how big the box can be.
And about it being hard to use because you have to have tons of control groups for all the units in your army:
I think if you are faced with siege tanks for example, if you just send 1 group of spread out magic boxed units ahead, and then the rest of your army clumped up directly after, thats already quite a big improvement over sending your whole clumped up army at once.
The siege tanks will waste their first round of fire at killing just a couple of spread out units, and while they reload, the rest of your army got into position already.
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Can somebody make a video about this?
Can´t imagine the use in that without a doubt right calculation.
I can see it with mutas, i know how it works for them, but how can Banelings, Marines or any other Units take advantage of that?
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Useful to know, less useful in practical situations due to the pacing of the game.
Magic boxes were used extensively in brood war because of the different mechanics of the game (no smart casting for one) such that blanket psi-storms were very useful if you knew how magic boxes work.
Not so much in SC2, though.
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Very nice job and thorough analysis, but I sort of lost all respect for you when you chose to call "general magic box," "Griffith's Magic Box," as if it was an improvement or credit owed.
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Here you go, a video explaining it, since ppl seem to want that
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Mmmmm....yeah, it's good to know what the magic box sizes are, but it's SC2's magic boxes. Credit to Griffith for working out the exact sizes, but the thread title is a little ridiculous.
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I'm just going to call this the Magic Box, sorry Griffith.
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well it was general knowledge that magic box works for every unit. When i played zerg for some time i always used to magic box my banelings vs siege tanks/thors. (was before terrans used to split up there marines use a few as blockers and all the nice moves that are out now, and most of the time my burrowed banelings finished the deal anyway =) )
Against Colossi army its always nice to send in a burrowed roach group in magic box before engaging. But thats only low apm cutesy against low apm aoe a click.
At the moment tvt is again the most creativ MU where you see bio only against heavy mech play, were people split up small bio groups before engaging points only defended by a few tanks, that have no chance at all, and makes defending expos impossible to do with only tanks.
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Thanks for the Vid. So Only Mutalisk fan out to the magic box. With every other unit you have to make it manually.
That was the Problem i had.
Thank you
Tyrannon
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On February 24 2011 05:08 Tyrannon wrote:
Thanks for the Vid. So Only Mutalisk fan out to the magic box. With every other unit you have to make it manually.
That was the Problem i had.
Thank you
Tyrannon
All air units should fan out, not just mutalisks.
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On February 24 2011 05:08 Tyrannon wrote:
Thanks for the Vid. So Only Mutalisk fan out to the magic box. With every other unit you have to make it manually.
That was the Problem i had.
Thank you
Tyrannon
Every single unit "fans out" to the point where they arent on top of each other anymore, but just side by side instead.
even ground units, you can get speedlings to stack on top of each other when giving them a repeated move command, but then they "fan out" again so that they are next to each other, and not on top.
With mutalisks, and thor splash, 2 mutalisks right next to each other wont get hit by splash, they only get hit when they overlap. So by just letting them sit for a few seconds, its fine.
That has nothing to do with the magic box though.
The magic box is just useful in that if your mutalisks are in a group equal to or smaller than the magic box, then giving them a move command wont cause them to clump up to get there, they will simply fly in formation to the location.
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Griffith, please, figure more stuff out, and make more threads with your name in the title so I can watch more people cry.
In other news, excellent find man, awesome implications for fighting banelings/tanks/collosi. Any chance you could post some sort of short video showing us the easiest way to take advantage of this? I appreciate the hard work but this is a tad confusing to me (and obviously some others), and a demo would really rock. Thanks for all of the work you put into all of this, and sharing it with the community.
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Marine Splitting just got easier.
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This is a pretty neat clarification but the arrogance of all these new players naming stuff after themselves that has been discovered in BW and only rediscovered in SC2 is rather...off-putting.
Kudos anyways though.
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Sweet work man. Dealing with banes just got alot easier.
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Yeah, thanks for the work you put into, but the self naming thing was going overboard. Also, no offense but it's a hard nickname to make something rhyme with :S
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im cönfused actually, could you show us i a slow video, what you do that diffrent from spread troops and move far ahead.
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Very nice find, but dude, did you REALLY have to say:
On February 22 2011 05:54 Griffith` wrote:
for the sake of clarity, the general magic box will be referred to as "Griffith's Magic Box".
Come on, man. No disrespect meant, but you had to know how that would sound when you posted it. I know you didn't actually mean that people should refer to magic boxing as "Griffiith's Magic Box" and that you just meant to use the term in your guide, but you can see how it could be (and was) misconstrued as insanely big-headed.
Frivolities aside, do I understand correctly that the smallest "magic box" size will always be the one to use in any unit composition, even if the ratio is pretty lopsided, say, 25 stalkers and like 3 zeals?
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it's definitely griffith's magic box in my group
does griffith's magic box work in actual games? i never knew that i guess i never had groups that small or if they were that small it was in early game and theres no reason to spread slow lings like that
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btw, there is a trick to further improve the magic box: (which I will refer to as "Big J's Magic Box", just kidding)
spread your units in really BIG boxes, like 10*10, then move them to the furthest away point they can reach without having to move around obstacles:
the units will move to that point and will slowly start to move closer to each other, but if you move far away with them and then hold position in close proximity (e.g. to attack a target in that location) to their starting point, they will still be in something like a 9*9 box.
in comparison:
S-->O-->E/M (Griffith's Magic Box)
S-->O
S-->O-->E-->O-->O
S-->O-->E-->O-->O-->O-->M (Big J's Magic Box )
S-->O-->E-->O-->O
S-->O
S being the starting point, E, being the end point, and M being the moveorder point
btw, magic boxing makes sense for Melee Units on big open fields, because they sourround faster.
(think about having your units in front of your gold base as zerg, and a terran is pushing through the center on shattered temple)
(just to be precise: dont give them the hold order, once they are in close proximity, use the attack order instead for zerglings/Ultras/Zealots, or keep the banelings moving...)
I dont think magic boxing is good for small ranged units, because it gives melee units more surface area and reduces the firepower, as less units will be able to attack (they defend each other less effective) and it makes them less effective against medium or big non splash ranged units (think about marines vs stalkers, marines vs roaches or roaches vs thor; you really want to have the smaller unit as clumped up, as possible in these situations)
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EPT
