• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:44
CET 04:44
KST 12:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Disasterpiece Theater: Soulkey vs sOs (2013-05-21)11WTL 2022 Winter - Regular Season Awards + Wrap-up24WTL Winter - The 2v2 Tour25WTL 2022 Winter - Regular Season Finale7Reynor wins HomeStory Cup XXII17
Community News
WardiTV 2023 Opens (Monthly)0IEM Katowice 2023 - Hosts & Commentators14Serral leaves ENCE, joins Basilisk18SC2 shut down in China, WTL to continue335.0.11 Patch Released - Balance Changes141
StarCraft 2
General
IEM Katowice 2023 - Hosts & Commentators 5.0.11 Patch Released - Balance Changes Very Old Starcraft Tournament Video/Information (2 Serral leaves ENCE, joins Basilisk New Ladder Maps Announced - Used at IEM Katowice
Tourneys
WardiTV 2023 Opens (Monthly) $5000 #PassionCraft Knockout TournyCraft free tourny management web app NorCal StarFest I [EPT 2021-22] ESL Open Cups
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] (Minigames) Raynor Party [A] [TPS RPG] Transformers: Open World (WIP) Work In Progress Melee Maps
External Content
Mutation # 353 Hostile Territory Mutation # 352 Railroad Switch Mutation # 351 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 350 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
[ASL15] Afreeca Starleague To Start On Feb 14 [Interview] skb9728_CyGnus – Legendary Mapmaker BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
New Worlds Map Contest III: All Submissions (VOTE HERE) Dewalt vs. top Chinese players - 1/28/2023 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Artosis vs Apes with Clubs
Strategy
Marine rate of fire Simple Questions, Simple Answers Valkyrie dmg formula? 2v2 Spell Combos
Other Games
General Games
FF7 remake for PS4 announced The PlayStation 5 The XBox Thread Fire Emblem Destiny 2 - PC/Xbox/PS4
Dota 2
Official Dota and Chess General Discussion [DPC 23] Tour 1 Discussion
League of Legends
[Spring 2023] LoL E-sports General Discussion [Patch Notes] Release General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments
Hearthstone
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia Community Thread Team Liquid Maria L
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Coronavirus and You
Fan Clubs
The GoOdy Fan Club The TY Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[TV] HBO The Last Of Us series [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion!
Sports
2022 - 2023 Football Thread NBA General Discussion 2021 NFL/CFB Season TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2022
World Cup 2022
FIFA World Cup 2022 - Knockout Stage FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Thread
Tech Support
Which Gaming Laptop Should I Buy? Simple Questions Simple Answers Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts Happy Birthday R1CH!
Blogs
It's that time of year YET A…
Umpteen
I'm still around doodling and…
Glider
Someone Crashed my Plane …
micronesia
A spiritual journey th…
mewithoutDrew
The Kitty Arcade Saga
MrBitter
My Goals for 2023
DeNikSSB
State of StarCraft II
Jealous
Burning it all down - Reti…
BreAKerTV
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1099 users

[G] TvT opening: Stimpush Expand by Thrombozyt

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 08:13:29
February 09 2011 21:50 GMT
#1
Intro
Evening folks. After lurking and reading (and I have to admit: trolling at balance threads) at TL.net for a while, I thought it's time to give back to the community, especially after utilizing the strategies of Griffith, Antisocialmunkey and iEchoic. I have hesitated for a while, because it's my first (and so far only) unique opening I have developed. But hey.. I guess if now it becomes a nice opener that is commonly used in TvT, it's something to be proud of.

I'm by no means a really high level player, hanging around 2.5k Masters (with ~200 bonus pool), but the build has served me well in against an EPS (UK) player - before he outmacroed me. So if you want to poke holes, poke away. This ain't a bible.


I also want to credit iEchoic for the formatting that I shamelessly copied - because it's good.

Oh.. and feedback is greatly appreciated.

Overview
+ Show Spoiler +
This opener focusses was inspired by day[9] and his mantra of attacking and expanding. We sacrifice tech time for economy and aggresion. This build uses an early stim timing to poke at the opponent and read his build. It holds up well against all common Terran openers and usually sets me up in an economic lead, even if the poke is defended.

Usually this build results in an ecomomic lead, that I try to hang on to. I make 3-5 tanks just to cover my territory and invest the rest of the gas in air superiority for drop play and to even out the lower number of tanks. As soon as I am on three bases, I move to BC for the finishing blow.


Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

10 supply
12 rax#1
13 ref
From here on, I will just give the order of building things. This is because you want to build stuff as soon as you can.
@rax#1 completes1 1 marine and start OC
start 2nd rax
@rax#1 marine complete: start tech lab, then make 1 marine and 3 marauders
@OC complete: Drop mule, do NOT make SCV right away
start supply depot before SCV #16
@100 gas: stim
@rax#2 complete: continous marine production
Produce from both barracks and the OC constantly, while building two more supply depots. There may be a few seconds, where you are capped by minerals or supply. In his case prioritize units over SCVs.

Around 5:40 mins game time, you should be in the following state:
3 marauders
6 marines (6th just about to pop out usually)
Stim 80% done

Your OC will approach 50 energy for the 3rd time. The first 2 energy chunks you used as MULEs, the 3rd will be a scan.

Move with your force towards the opponent.

You notice you have massed up 400 minerals so drop a CC. From now on SCV production regains it's usual priority. Both barracks start producing marines and you make the following buildings in this order:
Factory
Supply depot
engi bay
2nd gas


The Stimpush
+ Show Spoiler +
You move out as soon as you have 4 marauders and 5 marines. Ideally you will approach the opponents ramp as your stim research completes. Note that this lines up nicely with your Orbital gaining 50 energy. Do a scan and assess, if you want to assault:
1) We see no bunker and no sieged tank:
Attack. Stim will win you the encounter. You trade infantry and will force SCVs off the mineral line. Note that you will beat most siege tech timings if you crisply executed the build. You can pick off any unsieged tank.
2)You see a bunker or a sieged tank:
This depends on the amount of units. Just a bunker and up to 2 marines you can overpower as marauders with stim rip through the bunker. A bunker and an unsieged tank is doable, too and a worthy trade. A bunker with 3+ SCVs or a sieged tank is too much.
3) Two bunker+
Don't attack
4) More than 12 marines
Retreat and start bunkers at your natural.


Scouting - what do I look for?
+ Show Spoiler +
I recommend sending your 13th SCV on 2 player maps or your depot SCV on 4 player maps. Ideally you want to arrive at his base after his rax have finished and before the marine pops out. Make sure he has gas and is mining from his refinery and check for a second barracks retreat as the marine pops. If there is no gas, you are either facing a marine all in or a fast expand. By keeping your SCV around and looking for another rax beyond the first you can hopefully see what's coming at you. For fast expand, you should push out earlier and deny his expand. You have 2 rax and he has one, so you should be able to prevent bunkers from going down on the natural. If you see more than 1 rax and no gas, it's safe to build a bunker at home.


Reacting to Terran Openings
+ Show Spoiler +
Assuming you have scouted a standard 13 gas 15 OC from your opponent, you will gain knowledge about his opening choice when you push. Usually the scan and the units at the ramp tell you what you will face in the next minutes. All options imply, that your opponent had his ramp defended and you did not attack his base:
1) Marine/Tank/Viking
Transfer your factory to the barracks techlab and start your own siege tech and tank production. Use your stim force to delay him on the way to his contain. Float your 2nd OC to your natural, get 2 gas up and use your gas advantage to catch up and surpass him in tech. Once you have your tanks in place at your natural and vikings in the air, you should be golden, because you expanded faster than he did and have eco advantage.
2) Cloaked banshee opening.
The banshee will pop shortly after you can push. Oftentimes you will break his front, lose your marines and the banshee will mop up the marauders, while you trade them for SCVs (or ideally target the port techlab to cancel cloak). Either way, that's why you have started the engi bay just before you tried for the push. Throw up 3 turrets for vision and use the marines with stim you have produced during your attack timing to fend off the banshee. Use your 2nd OC for extra SCV production and scans. Make a reactor on you factory and a starport, double pump viking and then float your OC to your natural. With proper sim city, 3 turrets and 4-6 marines will completely negate the 2 banshees usually employed. You are now ahead in economy (and probably also in army size). Second round of starport production is 2 medivacs and go counterdrop
3) Hellion drop (with or without blue flame)
Oftentimes you will catch that drop just as the 3rd hellion pops and the medivac wants to leave. If you can't break the fronts due to bunkers, get concussive shells at home and swap the techlab rax from marine production to marauder production. With stim and shells you should be able to fend off the drop without much problems. Proceed with expansion.
4) Rax expand
This can be tricky depending on the accessability of the natural. Use the above guidelines to see if you can break his defense (which is often the case). Use your scan to determine where on the tech path he is. If you are ahead (which is likely), reactor starport with dual medivac will give you 2 full medivacs with marine marauder and stim to drop and wreack havoc.
5) Mass bio play
If you see a great amount of bio at the top of the ramp, it's wise to retreat. Expand, fortify with bunkers and get siege mode ASAP. With 2 bunkers and repair plus stim you can hold all pushes against your expand that can come before siege mode.


Tips and Tricks
+ Show Spoiler +
- Try to hide your second barracks from the opponents scout. This will increase the chance that you can break his ramp and cause major damage
- Build your base in a rather tight cluster, so that three turrets will cover everything. Build your factory directly above or below your techlab rax for a quick emergency swap in case of an early tank push by your opponent.
- If you can't push in, try to maximize the time you have the base advantage by using your stim force to make him worried about moving out. Ideally he has to siege hop out of his base netting you an extra minute to widen your economic lead.
- You can use this build as a base for an all-in. Depending on how all-in-ish you want to be, you can use the amassing minerals for proxy rax (remove 1 SCV from gas after you started stim) and pull as much SCVs as you deem neccessary.


FAQ
+ Show Spoiler +
Will be filled with your questions.


Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
Example of how stim the push - executed with delay - hits before siege tech.

Successful stim push against a Terran trying to execute the iEchoic 2fact 2port build.

Stim push encounters 3 rax bio and fail, costing me most of my force. Still I do enough damage to delay his push and can fend it off. I get contained but transition into BC.

Stim push vs 2 rax (tech+reactor) play that goes for a later timing. I cancel my push and focus on defending the expand.

0c3LoT
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada162 Posts
February 09 2011 21:57 GMT
#2
Replays please.
Winning is a lifestyle choice.
CryMore
Profile Joined March 2010
United States497 Posts
February 09 2011 22:40 GMT
#3
Isn't this just a 2-rax expo with a stim timing instead of conc shells? This is pretty common TvP, but the transition is into mass bio, not fact. Please post a replay of it in action, because I don't think you can expo and tech at the same time off of only 2 rax, and still be safe.
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
Genome852
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States979 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 22:47:44
February 09 2011 22:47 GMT
#4
On February 10 2011 07:40 xixecal wrote:
Isn't this just a 2-rax expo with a stim timing instead of conc shells? This is pretty common TvP, but the transition is into mass bio, not fact. Please post a replay of it in action, because I don't think you can expo and tech at the same time off of only 2 rax, and still be safe.


Yes, I think so. It's a pretty common build.

For TvP, it's better to get concussive shells than stim IMO. This lets you kite zealots forever, and you can push out with 2 marauders and 3 marines and reach their base right as concussive finishes. It's much faster than getting stim and the sentry usually doesn't have enough energy for multiple FF on the ramp.

Teching immediately after expanding, with only two barracks (one with no addon), is quite dangerous. From my experience it's typically better to add one or two more barracks with addons before getting fact so you can continue to pressure, and actually have units if the opponent decides to attack.
danielsan
Profile Joined December 2010
Romania399 Posts
February 09 2011 22:52 GMT
#5
this is scoutable and will put you behind when opponent goes 1 rax 1 fact(which is common by default).
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-10 08:16:33
February 10 2011 07:39 GMT
#6
On February 10 2011 07:52 danielsan wrote:
this is scoutable and will put you behind when opponent goes 1 rax 1 fact(which is common by default).


Actually I use this opener is next to all of my TvT and the beauty is that even if it's scouted you often end up ahead in the economy game.

For the replays:
I typed it up before going to sleep. I will supply replays of the build this evening. For now I just have fished one out against a siege tank marine player.
heyyouyesyou
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States323 Posts
February 10 2011 13:22 GMT
#7
Ive done this but still think you can get away with 1rax fe in TvT dont worry about a small timing push to grab your expo just get it.
biomech!
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
February 10 2011 13:54 GMT
#8
Interesting. Surprisingly enough, if done well I think the only build that would prevent you from getting your expo is iEchoic's hellion type play. That small bio force will be erased by 3 bf hellions. Have you tested this build against a 5 marine 1 hellion poke? I might be wrong but it seems at the time that hits he will reduce your army numbers, delaying your push and therefore your expo.

Also, although a lot less common(I love to do it in Bo5 if I am playing random), QXCs ghost opening would never let you get your extremely small bio group up as he snipes marines and bounces.

I really do like the engineering bay timing, though. Gives you room to throw up turrets if you need them if you see the starport with techlab. Post more replays so we can get a better feel of the timings!
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-10 14:01:40
February 10 2011 13:57 GMT
#9
Double post
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
February 10 2011 14:58 GMT
#10
On February 10 2011 22:54 Venomsflame wrote:
Interesting. Surprisingly enough, if done well I think the only build that would prevent you from getting your expo is iEchoic's hellion type play. That small bio force will be erased by 3 bf hellions. Have you tested this build against a 5 marine 1 hellion poke? I might be wrong but it seems at the time that hits he will reduce your army numbers, delaying your push and therefore your expo.

Also, although a lot less common(I love to do it in Bo5 if I am playing random), QXCs ghost opening would never let you get your extremely small bio group up as he snipes marines and bounces.

I really do like the engineering bay timing, though. Gives you room to throw up turrets if you need them if you see the starport with techlab. Post more replays so we can get a better feel of the timings!


I haven't faced a well executed iEchoic build. Only a not that well executed one and I can post the replay of that when I get home from work. But go to day[9] and watch iEchoic demonstrate his build in the latest daily. Notice, that he has only 2 marines and 1 hellion at the 6 minute mark where your push is happening. Two more will pop out, blue flame tech is still 40 seconds of and you have 4 marauder with stim. The ghost opening will give you trouble, but you can use your marauder to snipe the ghost and have a favorable exchange already plus you are probably even with the expand and ahead in tech.
BigBossX
Profile Joined September 2008
United Kingdom357 Posts
February 10 2011 15:45 GMT
#11
Lol at the instant theorycrafting ...

Seems like a very well written and detailed guide, I look forward to giving this build a go as for some reason I can't find a comfortable TvT opening -_-
audeamus
Profile Joined December 2010
15 Posts
February 10 2011 18:09 GMT
#12
a) The replays I've seen of iEchoic's build show very little military until Hellions start popping; this opening is probably good against it.

b) whenever my opponents open with two Barracks in TvT, it is almost trivial to throw down a Bunker and deny their initial push, at which point I'm typically way ahead of them in tech. This build also cuts SCVs; how do you transition if you scout a Bunker?
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
February 10 2011 19:15 GMT
#13
On February 10 2011 23:58 Thrombozyt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2011 22:54 Venomsflame wrote:
Interesting. Surprisingly enough, if done well I think the only build that would prevent you from getting your expo is iEchoic's hellion type play. That small bio force will be erased by 3 bf hellions. Have you tested this build against a 5 marine 1 hellion poke? I might be wrong but it seems at the time that hits he will reduce your army numbers, delaying your push and therefore your expo.

Also, although a lot less common(I love to do it in Bo5 if I am playing random), QXCs ghost opening would never let you get your extremely small bio group up as he snipes marines and bounces.

I really do like the engineering bay timing, though. Gives you room to throw up turrets if you need them if you see the starport with techlab. Post more replays so we can get a better feel of the timings!


I haven't faced a well executed iEchoic build. Only a not that well executed one and I can post the replay of that when I get home from work. But go to day[9] and watch iEchoic demonstrate his build in the latest daily. Notice, that he has only 2 marines and 1 hellion at the 6 minute mark where your push is happening. Two more will pop out, blue flame tech is still 40 seconds of and you have 4 marauder with stim. The ghost opening will give you trouble, but you can use your marauder to snipe the ghost and have a favorable exchange already plus you are probably even with the expand and ahead in tech.


Just went to check, and you're right. The timings line up in your favor. This build obviously won't often outright kill your opponent, but that definitely will deal enough damage to get your expo up. The ensuing hellion drop after your push is still going to hurt. How would you react knowing a drop could come after your force is cleaned up?

Not trying to nitpick. I think this is a very cool way to grab an advantage against your opponent early on. Can't wait to go home and test it!
ellcee
Profile Joined November 2010
United States18 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-10 20:54:38
February 10 2011 20:53 GMT
#14
First off, nicely thought build. I actually used to do a similar build in my TvT matches, but it wouldn't hit as fast or as strong as what you're describing due to my lack of skill and planning. One thing that I found was helpful in some situations was to build a proxy rax and lift it for vision of the ramp, which can make a nice difference so you don't run up the chokepoint. You can also use it for quick reinforcements so you can use the buildings in your main to guard against drops instead of reinforcing your push/contain.

Granted, I wouldn't just thrown down a proxy everytime, but it has its uses imo.
b0urne420
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada112 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-10 21:46:52
February 10 2011 21:38 GMT
#15
On February 10 2011 06:50 Thrombozyt wrote:
Scouting - what do I look for?
I recommend sending your 13th SCV on 2 player maps or your depot SCV on 4 player maps. Ideally you want to arrive at his base after his rax have finished and before the marine pops out. Make sure he has gas and is mining from his refinery(else abort the build and fend off the marine all in) and check for a second barracks retreat as the marine pops.


A lot of terrans do no gas 1rax fast expands though. No gas doesnt automatically mean a marine all-in
i think an FE would be more likely if you scout that tbh. who even marine all-ins in tvt
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-10 22:00:27
February 10 2011 21:58 GMT
#16
I do a blueflame hellion open, and have beaten pure 3 rax, 1 rax FE all marine, 2 rax stim pushes. Hardest thing for blue flame is a blue flame but sadly if I scout poorly, or don't poke the ramp/control towers -- this kind of play does work to, if nothing else, trade and force an SCV pull.

I almost enjoy bio play, if I see it. I can scoot hellions all over the map, and as long as I don't make a defense blunder, tank/marine in bunker with repair is enough to at least TRADE or force a retreat ya know?

Stim pushes do work, don't get me wrong. It's just got a sliding scale of success as the game goes on. And although if you don't scout the second rax, you're stuck having to rely on a scan to see no second gas and assume an FE or infantry play. Which, unfortunately, have completely different recourses.

I almost want to chime in a what if.. What if you pull 3-5 scvs with your push? It's so early, that you can try to offensively bunker, and force MASS scv pulling. I think vs a fast banshee build that would be almost dirty as the marines will have no chance defending that. Send scvs up first to soak up fire and then FF crap down.

Looks very nicely timed out at least. Got anymore reps of it?
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
February 10 2011 22:14 GMT
#17
On February 11 2011 06:38 b0urne420 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2011 06:50 Thrombozyt wrote:
Scouting - what do I look for?
I recommend sending your 13th SCV on 2 player maps or your depot SCV on 4 player maps. Ideally you want to arrive at his base after his rax have finished and before the marine pops out. Make sure he has gas and is mining from his refinery(else abort the build and fend off the marine all in) and check for a second barracks retreat as the marine pops.


A lot of terrans do no gas 1rax fast expands though. No gas doesnt automatically mean a marine all-in
i think an FE would be more likely if you scout that tbh. who even marine all-ins in tvt


Well.. I wrote that under the impression of a series of games I had last weekend where everyone and their mother pulled an SCV-marine-allin on me, if they would go for inbase proxy rax. But your are right, the 1 rax expand is something that you should scout for. If you catch it, you also should be able to delay it significantly, as you are 2 rax vs 1 rax and have higher map presence.

I will change that paragraph soon. Thx for the catch.

I have also added another replay and went through me replay section. Most of the TvT I have saved are from older patches. If there is immediate demand, I will post those. Else I will ladder this weekend.


@ellcee:
In rare cases I proxy the rax, too. Usually when he has a scout in my base that doesn't retreat in fear of my soon to come first marine. See the first replay. The down side is that you are in trouble in case he has the ramp bunkered up and is coming at you with that banshee or a hellion drop. You will have half the troops in your base.
Also scouting with the rax will give him more time. Imagine he has only a bunker at the front. With a scan you see it and destroy the bunker before his SCVs can repair. If you float your rax over, there are 5-10 secs between he can see your rax and you can make a complete assessment of the defense at the ramp. In that time he has his SCVs in place. Therefore I use the scan.

@Venomsflame:
Hellion drops can be fended off by researching concussive shell and making marauder from the tech lab rax. So when he drops you, you have 1-2 marauder and 3-5 marines with stim and slow. That greatly limit the damage of such a drop, especially if you know it's coming, so the stim marines can chase down the medivac and the marauders can pick off the dropped hellions.

@audeamus:
As lined out in the "response to opponents opening" section, you mainly try to use your economic advantage to catch up in tech. You use your stim force to delay tank pushes until you have your tanks in position, which in turn then hold until your 4 gas has surpassed his 2 gas tech production. Or you fend off banshees or blue flame drops (the air tech options) with your home force until your economic advantage has given you the resources to surpass him in tech units.

Basically the tech advantage has two components:
1) You initially need time to deploy a tech (get the structures up, get the research etc.)
2) You need time to mine gas and translate that gas into tech unit. This is economy dependent.

My opponent completes part 1 ahead of me. I opt for an economic advantage and use my forces to delay him from utilizing his advantage in high tech units (air and tanks usually) until my stronger eco with its 4 gysers brings me ahead in the second part of the tech game.

Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
February 10 2011 22:18 GMT
#18
On February 11 2011 06:58 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I do a blueflame hellion open, and have beaten pure 3 rax, 1 rax FE all marine, 2 rax stim pushes. Hardest thing for blue flame is a blue flame but sadly if I scout poorly, or don't poke the ramp/control towers -- this kind of play does work to, if nothing else, trade and force an SCV pull.

I almost enjoy bio play, if I see it. I can scoot hellions all over the map, and as long as I don't make a defense blunder, tank/marine in bunker with repair is enough to at least TRADE or force a retreat ya know?

Stim pushes do work, don't get me wrong. It's just got a sliding scale of success as the game goes on. And although if you don't scout the second rax, you're stuck having to rely on a scan to see no second gas and assume an FE or infantry play. Which, unfortunately, have completely different recourses.

I almost want to chime in a what if.. What if you pull 3-5 scvs with your push? It's so early, that you can try to offensively bunker, and force MASS scv pulling. I think vs a fast banshee build that would be almost dirty as the marines will have no chance defending that. Send scvs up first to soak up fire and then FF crap down.

Looks very nicely timed out at least. Got anymore reps of it?


As I have said in the tips&tricks section, you can pull SCVs for a more all-in-ish version. This is my opening for a macro oriented strategy.

For the blue flame hellion thing:
Yes, you might run around my stim force or drop me. This has happened a few times. But it comes down to my forces clearing your base and your hellions clearing mine. In a base trade scenario I usually come out ahead. Even if we both lose a ton of SCVs, I bounce back faster due to 2 OCs while you are stuck with tech structures you don't have the gas for.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
February 10 2011 22:26 GMT
#19
True, but if I get off 1 tank and a walled off base with a bunker, you have GOT to get the bunker down to stand a chance. I can blue flame snipe off marines without shells, which I don't think you get. I have about 6-8 marines and 4 hellions and 1 dship at like...7? I don't even know my own timings lol.

I think though, thats the key. If you do FE when you push, pull some SCVs. The worst you do is trade at their base, and have to defend a halp hazard attack.

Even though blueflames is somewhat hide and use cheese, I feel like 2/3 rax play is very much the same. Though, this is at least a nice change in a quicker push with stim
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
ellcee
Profile Joined November 2010
United States18 Posts
February 11 2011 00:49 GMT
#20
You make a good point about the army split, but what I was referring to and failed to communicate was that if I do do a proxy, I do it with a 3rd rax and possibly a bunker, so as to try and attempt a harder contain after the initial push.

Something that would definitely round the OP out quite nicely is a discussion on good transitions with this build after you drop your expo and start to secure a larger army. Going MMM with enough vikings for air dominance seems like it would meld well with this build; especially if you force your opponent to turtle up, at which point a few ghosts with nukes could work wonders.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
00:00
season 6, day 29
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
21:50
Best Games of SC
Reynor vs ByuNLIVE!
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft603
RuFF_SC2 162
Forgg! 121
Jaeyun 57
PiLiPiLi 20
BeoMulf14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21325
Rush 5723
Dota 2
EternaLEnVy1441
League of Legends
JimRising 827
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1588
Other Games
summit1g20895
tarik_tv6078
Sick2509
Stewie2K2373
C9.Mang0951
ToD269
Mew2King189
NeuroSwarm93
FrodaN71
ViBE65
HugS8657
febbydoto44
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream6485
Other Games
gamesdonequick2389
Dota 2
BeyondTheSummit985
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO461
StarCraft 2
Esl_sc2145
ESL.tv145
StarCraft: Brood War
StarcraftVOD5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta101
• GM_Ukko 62
• Hupsaiya 48
• musti20045 27
• xJustxJordanx 9
• Poblha
• Migwel
• Laughngamez YouTube
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• Gussbus
• intothetv
• aXEnki
• Alpha X_
StarCraft: Brood War
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1071
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague Qual…
1h 16m
Showmatch
7h 46m
Dewalt vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XiaoShuai
Dewalt vs Zhanhun
Wardi Open
8h 16m
BSL: ProLeague
13h 16m
Fengzi vs ZeTy
Xin vs Hejek
ESL Pro Tour
23h 16m
Afreeca Starleague Qual…
1d 1h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 13h
Zhanhun vs ZZZoom
SquaLL vs TerrOr
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KOR-CHN Invitational League 1: Paralyze vs XiaoShuai
OSC Championship Season 10
NGS Storm Division S6 Qual. 5
ESL Challenger League S43 EU

Ongoing

BSL Season 16
Strength Challenge 30K
Tournament of Honor
FS Mania
RISS Season 1
Spring Cup Season 4: Korea
Spring Cup 4: Chinese Qualifier
Spring Cup 4: Chinese Qualifier 1
ASL Season 15: Online Qualifier Day 1
WTL 2022 Winter
NGS Storm Division S6
ESL Challenger League S44 NA
ESL Challenger League S44 EU
ESL Challenger League S44 AP
BLAST Premier Spring Groups

Upcoming

Hongtu Solo League S5: KOR
ASL Season 15
Spring Cup Season 4
Spring Cup Season 4: China
Spring Cup 4: Chinese Qualifier 2
CHN vs KOR Week30
ASL Season 15: Online Qualifier Day 2
#PassionCraft Knockout
IEM Katowice 2023
BLAST.tv Paris Major 2023
ESL Challenger Melbourne 2023
ESL Pro League Season 17
CCT Central Europe Finals #1
IEM Katowice 2023
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2023 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.