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I am having a lot of trouble with blue flame helions these days =(. Usually terran players either don't get the blue flame, or they just have terribad helion control (or both) and they don't really do that much damage, but I'm seeing more players that can control their helions and it's really devastating.
For whatever reason, I'm never actually able to scout the blue flames researching. I think it's because there are usually helions roaming the map so all my zerglings are trying to protect my drones. Because of this, I'm always late with my roach warren. I don't like making a roach warren just when I scout a factory, because sometimes players just do 2 helions without blue flame, and then they go into banshees. I'll make one when I scout a ton of helions or blue flame, but usually it's a little late by that point =/.
Another thing that I can't deal with is the transition. I've played people that go mass blue flame helion into banshees, or mass blue flame helion into marauders. I don't know how to deal with it. Roaches get demolished by marauders and they can't even attack banshees, but with that many blue flame helions, you can't just make lings. Spine crawlers are ok, but they only adequately protect you on certain maps and if you don't overinvest in them, they can just run past and toast on the drones in your main.
What do experienced Zerg players do against blue flame helion openings?
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It all really deals what you have been doing up to this point. Extra Queens or Faster Roaches. Otherwise try some sim city evos.
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For me defending hellions is all about positioning, for example if you place your spawning pool behind your mineral line but to one side, it means he cant get to the back from that direction which limits him instantly, allowing you to defend from one less angle, also try some different things with openings a 9pool with 2 fast queens can allow you to block your ramp, if you are not going for some super early hatch. Get creative and see what happens :D
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Well it can be hard to actually scout if he's really going for the drop, since you might see factory with techlab and think of siege tanks if there is no helions around, but my advice is this:
Spread your overlords around your base, so you have the vision. With vision, you can fend off drops better. Check his front. Do you see tanks, marines, marauders or anything? If you see a one base turtling terran and you don't get much from the front, you should expect tricky stuff such as blue flame helions, banshees or thor drop etc. Try to sacrifice an ovie if you can. ın any case, spread your overlords out around your bases so you can see drop coming. Get the control of Xel'naga towers.
This is the most important part: When helions get to your main, do not box all workers and run them away. It is actually suicide. Keep them mining where they are. This will accomplish two things:
Helions will be much less mobile instead of running around, letting your roaches/lings to attack
Moving workers stack up, and that means toasty drones.
Today I killed around 26 probes with 3 blue flame helions. The guy just boxed everything and tried to micro them away, while doing that he lost control of his army and let my helions shoot, it was total massacre. Just calm down.
Roaches are the best option to blue flame helions, queens are also great.
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The blue flame helions aren't the ONLY bad part. Like I said, I can hold it off by going roaches, but my question then, is how to handle the inevitable helion/marauder push or the incoming banshee attack.
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hold off with lings/spines/queens until mutas pop, which counters hellions, banshees, and marauders.
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On February 01 2011 03:31 Xanbatou wrote:
I don't like making a roach warren just when I scout a factory, because sometimes players just do 2 helions without blue flame, and then they go into banshees. I'll make one when I scout a ton of helions or blue flame, but usually it's a little late by that point =/.
This is a mistake. You can get a roach warren and make 4-5 roaches without crippling yourself against banshees. Perhaps you're making too many roaches? Make 4-5 roaches, defend the hellions, and then go attack him. If you spot banshees, make another queen while your lair is building
On February 01 2011 03:31 Xanbatou wrote:
Another thing that I can't deal with is the transition. I've played people that go mass blue flame helion into banshees, or mass blue flame helion into marauders. I don't know how to deal with it. Roaches get demolished by marauders and they can't even attack banshees, but with that many blue flame helions, you can't just make lings. Spine crawlers are ok, but they only adequately protect you on certain maps and if you don't overinvest in them, they can just run past and toast on the drones in your main.
What do experienced Zerg players do against blue flame helion openings?
Again it sounds like you're making too many roaches. Only make the minimum amount of roaches to defend against the hellions. If he goes hellion -> banshee, his expansion will be a bit late, and you should be able to defend that with a 3rd queen (+ 4th/5th queen if you see more than 2 banshees) until mutas are out. If he goes igniter hellion + marauder, you should have mutas out by the time he has a significant amount of marauders.
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I make two spines at my natural (Machine style) and make an extra queen (or two) to block ramp. I drone hard behind this defense. It handles blue flame harass and banshee transition very nicely.
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A blue flame hellion drop will destory lings, drones, and with micro your queens.
Mutas wont be out unless you did some wierd beta infulenced 1 Base Muta play so go roaches.
Open with a FE of some sort and get ling speed as usually and make a crawler or 2 at the natural then make roaches 4-8. Get lair and speed for the roaches.
Speed roaches shut down hellions hard and selecting the drones on minerals and pressing S for Stop prevents clumping and spares you half the drones you would have lost.
Get a 3rd or if your opponent went bio get infestors.
Keep a few roaches in your mineral lines and use the rest to control watch towers and destroy rocks for additional expos.
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You should always sac an ovie at around 4-5, this should be your first one the one that you started out with. This ovie is extremely important as it tells you exactly whats coming. If you see a factory with reactor this means hellions, if you see with techlab you can assume blue flame/or siege tank, if you see just plain factory, you should be ready for banshee's.
Besides from that, avoid engaging hellions off creep, bait them out a bit, for example, show that your ramp is not blocked and when he goes up, surround them. Hellions can only attack 1 ling at a time surrounded fully. If you see more than 2 hellions, get roaches out, just 2-3, and go spire straight as you hit lair. Never over do roaches, as they will delay your tech. If you have a easy to defend natural for example LT, you can block the ramp with 1 queen and a spine will do massive amounts of damage to hellions to come in, you don't really need to go roach. If you over did roach you have to do some damage, attack his ramp with the extra roaches, it will buy you time if he went banshee, or it mite just kill him outrite if he was trying to expand off the harass. Its happened to me before, it was quite amazing.
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Everyone gave you the answers you need a evo by your ramp to make it harder to enter the main, 2 or 3 roaches is plenty with a single spine at your entrance. plus queens blocking the ramp is a pretty standard way to guard against it.
another way that I use quite frequently is having a spine near the bottom of your entrance and haveing 10 lings at the top when they try to get up the ramp concave with your lings at the top of the ramp and the spine will destroy them well they are being blocked.one might get thru but your other lings will take care of it. This means you dont need roaches !
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My personal preference would be speedlings and speed-upgraded banelings. If you can, try to block your ramp with 2 queens, so you only have to deal with the helions at your nat.
I like to drop a roach warren, though if I see 2 or more factories. It's so nice to have 10 or so roaches to tank the damage, then the speedlings and banelings swarm in and wreck havoc.
If you're worried about a banshee transition, then it's up to you if you want to make a Spire to get mutas, or make extra queens. Just don't forget to make an overseer (or spore colonies).
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EPT
