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Hey TL. This is a build I adapted from something I saw NexGenius do in a game vs Tester. He messes up pretty badly though, so watch my replays for a better version. This build is designed for PvP, but it is still powerful in the other matchups. Anyone could probably get to Diamond with just this build.
The breakdown:
9 Pylon (chrono probes when done)
12 Gateway (chrono probes, scout)
14 Assimilator
15 Pylon (put 3 in gas)
17 Cybernetics Core
18 Zealot
22 Warp Gate Research as soon as core finishes (chrono core, cut probes)
22 Stalker (chrono)
24 (chrono core)
24 @~450 minerals 3 Gateways (chrono core)
24 Stalker
26 Proxy Pylon (chrono core)
Morph Gateways, build Pylon in your base
Warp in 4 Stalkers
Attack with everything (1 Zealot, 6 Stalkers) @~5:45
Reinforce with 4 Zealots
Key Points:
-Cut probes at 22 supply (will be at 24 when Stalker starts, which makes 20 probes total)
-Move out with Zealot and Stalker to help protect proxy pylon probe
Replays:
NexGenius Original Replay (Fail)
Me Practicing Build (Clean Execution)
Me executing vs a practice partner going Robo
Summary:
This 4 Gate gets a Zealot and 2 Stalkers out for early safety and then gets a HUGE surge of units. It has 1 Zealot and 6 Stalkers at their base at around 5:45, with 4 more Zealots on the way.
6 Stalkers is a very key number because it 3-shots Zealots and 2-shots Stalkers.
Strengths:
- Demolishes fast Robo
- Demolishes fast Blink
- Demolishes passive FE
- Hits before most DT Rushes
- Has units to deal with Korean 4 Gate All-in Pylons
Weaknesses:
- 2 Gate Zealot Pressure
- Any form of Chrono Boosted 1-2 Gate Pressure
Now you all have something to check against when you ask yourselves "Does my build die to 4 Gate?"
:D
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Thats pretty much a standard 4 gate...
You get 2-3 units and chrono almost always your cybercore... Which you made using standard build... I dont see what stand out...
Pushing with 5-6 stalker 1 zealot or 6 sentry or whatever... Thats a 4 gates thats all... Its just your version of it...
Tell me whats the diff between that and a regular 4 gate... which it is... if you're not a noob who goes 4 gate with 1 zealot or 1 unit...
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Hey thanks for posting! :D
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On December 17 2010 13:27 Yokoblue wrote:
Thats pretty much a standard 4 gate...
Also note that K4G definitely beats this... in fact K4G is pretty much a hard counter to this. You can't really continue with this build if you scout K4G just like you can't continue with this build if you scout 2 gate zeals or something.
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On December 17 2010 13:27 Yokoblue wrote:
Thats pretty much a standard 4 gate...
Exactly. Standard = Very Strong. I have written out a clear, easy-to-follow build order for this very standard 4 Gate.
If by 'standard' you meant 'common' though, then I would have to disagree. I watch a lot of replays and I see tons of Protoss players do 4 Gates far inferior to this one. I can also think of like 8 different variations of 4 Gate that could also be labeled '4 Gate.' This is a 1-Gas 4-Gate All-in. It cuts probes at max saturation on 1 Gas and has just enough income to constantly produce Zealots and Stalkers.
On December 17 2010 13:40 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Hey thanks for posting! :D
You are welcome, sir.
On December 17 2010 13:43 Anihc wrote:Also note that K4G definitely beats this... in fact K4G is pretty much a hard counter to this. You can't really continue with this build if you scout K4G just like you can't continue with this build if you scout 2 gate zeals or something.
K4G is the one where you make no units, build 3 pylons in the enemy's base and warp in all Zealots, right? Just attack his base with your first Zealot, pick off the probe/pylons with your Stalkers. That's what I can think of even without adjusting after scouting.
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This is pretty much a Korean 4gate (1gas +probe cut) where you just leave 3 in gas. People have been doing this for months.
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aaaaaaaaaaaaand this is why i hate pvp. -_-
i was working on a 3 gate that held off all the possible openers and let me expand safely, and this attack completely crushes it, sigh
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Yep, this is definitely the strongest and the version of 4-gate all-in i do whenever i wanna 4-gate all-in.
There's also a variation which, depending on pure prefrence, you skip the first zealot instead getting your second gate quickly after your core, and you get 3 stalkers rather than 2 stalkers 1 zealot to move up to your proxy pylon with, and then warp in 3 stalkers and 1 zealot, but the end 'attack' is still 6 stalkers 1 zealot and ready to warp in 4 zealots.
Fwiw this is incredibly, INCREDIBLY easy to execute, and actually crushes like 75% of PvP openings in the game right now. It's one of the many reasons PvP is so stupid atm. This also isnt a terrible strat PvT or PvZ either, basically, if you want to brag about being diamond, learn to execute this build flawlessly, and i can guarantee you, you will get diamond.
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Attack with everything (1 Zealot, 6 Stalkers) @~5:45
I always use this standard 4 gate in scrap station (huge ramp), and mostly is a success, biggest problem i face is when my opponent goes for 4 gate himself
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winning is winning
losing is losing
that said, winning with this build is not helpful if you want to become a strong player overall
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Yeah I'm looking for the zealot too
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On December 17 2010 16:42 winedz wrote:
Attack with everything (1 Zealot, 6 Stalkers) @~5:45
when did u make the zealot? o.O
Whoops. Thanks. Totally forgot that in the build description. Edited first post.
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On December 17 2010 16:49 Evoshadow wrote:
winning is winning
losing is losing
that said, winning with this build is not helpful if you want to become a strong player overall
Wow this is so totally on topic /sarcasm
Really here we go again people flood another build thread because omg i don't like all-ins. Another reason why strategy section is jacked up because people want to denounce every little thing they disagree/dislike. OP followed the rules of posting a Valid strategy regardless if people think it wont people better its still vaild per TL standards. Go listen to SoTG then if you are really compelled post. Like they said care more about the sport the players instead of caring about all-ins or this isn't BW.
For another perspective these "4-gate builds" in the end are more helpful than harmful FOR protoss players as a whole. Now lets say that this is the 4 gate to end all 4 gates. Yea it will suck for everyone sure. Now all builds will become refined. He showed the weakness and 1 of them is 1-2 gate chrono'd pressure so from there new builds will develop. Its not like there is going to be one build to rule them all. Really. Open mind people please.
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I been doing this build for about 1 month and a half now. It is very hard to stop even at the 2k diamond. Call me cheesy but this build is so powerful its my standard pvp. It loses to zealot pressure pretty badly and a standard 4 gate with micro can also beat this.
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Actually this is the build i use in PvP. Most people around my level (+-2950 diamond) do this build too.
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24 @~350 minerals 3 Gateways (chrono core)
^^ small typo I believe sir, shouldn't that be 450 mins?
Anywho, thanks for the guide. 
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This is incredibly standard isn't it?
Like.. 1 gas 4gate where you cut probes has been around since beta, in this exact build order.
I remember doing this, and seeing others do this like 5 months ago, i mean.. this is the 4gate.. 2gas is non standard, and pulling probes off gas is non standard, or so i thought?
Thanks for highlighting it again I guess, nvm that everyone does it anyway :O
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Pretty standard build. Shame on me, but I use it in PvP aswell just because a clean, smooth execution is so powerful at lower levels.
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I think that it's actually different from K4G. With K4G, normally I'll go for 10 Pylon 10 gateway, then will have Core and Warp gate earlier than normal 4 Gates.
The other thing is that K4G may be not a real hard counter with this standard 4G build, if your micro is not so sloppy. If you suspect a K4G, chrono a Stalker to make sure that probe will not build any Pylon in your main first. And after that have a sentry to block zealots at ram because normally if I failed to build a pylon in opponent's base, I'll build another somewhere outside. But it'll be not a real threat anymore since the main target of K4G is to warp units to attack inside mineral line.
4Gates is quite strong and people like to do it a lot because it's quite a smooth build order. But if your opponents make Sentries and FF the ram 2-3 times, 4 Gates will pretty much fail.
I usually just use 4G build when against Zerg who go for 14 or 15 Hatch, depends on map and location.
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thx for posting =)
I use that build too since a month and it work very well. Any safe build to contain this 4gates ?
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Ye totally standard. Optimized looks/feels still better.
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On December 17 2010 13:43 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 13:27 Yokoblue wrote:
Thats pretty much a standard 4 gate...
Also note that K4G definitely beats this... in fact K4G is pretty much a hard counter to this. You can't really continue with this build if you scout K4G just like you can't continue with this build if you scout 2 gate zeals or something.
lol it's quite the other way around. K4G sucks and loses hard to this because this only has warpgate up 10 secs later but also already has 3 units by that time. Ie. you'll be having 7 units vs 4 if you stopped the pylons being exactly on top of your pylon.
Also it really depends on what version of 2 gate zeals you see, if it's in base 2 gate zeals you can actually keep doing this fine and I would say it's about the best answer there is if you micro your stalkers sufficiently.
If the 2 gates are proxied you HAVE to answer with 2 gate zeals yourself obviously.
Basically I agree with the rest though, if you are going to 4 gate this is about the best build there is.
THe 3 gate builds where you build more units before warpgate are just slightly more efficient imo but you will be only having 3 gates with them, ie you need perfect macro to keep production with them. 3 gates with chronoboost is nearly exactly enough production if you macro perfect, 4 gates is slight overproduction making it much easier to continue attacking with it, especially as keeping perfect warpgate micro is harder.
Overall i'd say this is the best way to 4 gate though as it's harder to scout then a 3 gate and can actually adapt later on. For example a 1 gate FE has nearly the same build order except it makes more probes and puts down the nexus instead of 3 gates. So while a defensive 3 gate robo can keep this off for example, such a build would lose to a 1 gate FE (as fast robo stinks vs FE). Also some bad players perform their builds poorly and simply forget to chrono alot and make a late 2nd gas so it may look like they do this build while in fact they are just doing a robo build.
For pure rushing power (if you don't care about being scouted or whatever) a 3 gate is slightly better though(about 2 more units).
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I'm not sure what type of K4G you're playing against, but an optimized K4G has 4 zealots warping in at 5:05, a full 40 seconds before this build's stated 5:45.
K4G is a hard counter to any protoss build that does not attack before the 4:30 mark with a sizeable force (it's true, if you send your first zealot to attack, the K4Gater has to pump out one of his own and delay the 4g by about 5-10 seconds, but that's still going to be enough to demolish this 4G build.)
Against a competent K4Gater, you cannot stop the proxy pylon(s) with gateway units. The first proxy pylon can go up as early as 3:50, which is approximately the time when your *first* zealot pops, 25 seconds before a chronoboosted stalker appears. By that time, there will be 4 pylons warped/warping in your base.
You could attempt to kill the scouting probe by bringing 4-5 probes off minerals to attack it as soon as you scout he's going K4G, which actually works because worker building AI is retarded. The probe will probably have 2 proxies pylons up before death, which your gateway units + probes can finish off. Unfortunately, this puts you economically behind, and merely delays the eventual push up your ramp with 8-12 zealots while you have 4 fewer gateway units of your own.
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Or, you know ...
Fast expand 
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nice guide. might sound weird, but honestly, this guide just encouraged me to do 4gates vs P more. i should really try doing K4G on ladder too. hundreds of games and i've yet to try that.
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On December 17 2010 13:23 Shlowpoke wrote:Hey TL. This is a build I adapted from something I saw NexGenius do in a game vs Tester. He messes up pretty badly though, so watch my replays for a better version. This build is designed for PvP, but it is still powerful in the other matchups. Anyone could probably get to Diamond with just this build. The breakdown:9 Pylon (chrono probes when done) 12 Gateway (chrono probes, scout) 14 Assimilator 15 Pylon (put 3 in gas) 17 Cybernetics Core 18 Zealot 22 Warp Gate Research as soon as core finishes (chrono core, cut probes) 22 Stalker (chrono) 24 (chrono core) 24 @~350 minerals 3 Gateways (chrono core) 24 Stalker 26 Proxy Pylon (chrono core) Morph Gateways, build Pylon in your base Warp in 4 Stalkers Attack with everything (1 Zealot, 6 Stalkers) @~5:45
Reinforce with 4 ZealotsKey Points:-Cut probes at 22 supply (will be at 24 when Stalker starts, which makes 20 probes total) -Move out with Zealot and Stalker to help protect proxy pylon probe Replays:NexGenius Original Replay (Fail)Me Practicing Build (Clean Execution)Me executing vs a practice partner going RoboSummary: This 4 Gate gets a Zealot and 2 Stalkers out for early safety and then gets a HUGE surge of units. It has 1 Zealot and 6 Stalkers at their base at around 5:45, with 4 more Zealots on the way. 6 Stalkers is a very key number because it 3-shots Zealots and 2-shots Stalkers. Strengths: - Demolishes fast Robo - Demolishes fast Blink - Demolishes passive FE - Hits before most DT Rushes - Has units to deal with Korean 4 Gate All-in Pylons Weaknesses: - 2 Gate Zealot Pressure - Any form of Chrono Boosted 1-2 Gate Pressure Now you all have something to check against when you ask yourselves "Does my build die to 4 Gate?" :D
Thanks for covering the 4 warp-gate attack with precision: the early units, timings, strengths. Great writeup.
Side note: What I saw and I'm guessing others her saw was titling this as the "NeXGenius " 4warpgate allin and then read it and see the "standard" 4warpgate attack. So it's like a letdown =). It's kind of like saying "Here's the build I adapted from nIckel" and then write up a 2gate zealot attack with gateways on 12 and 14. You're left going, "Wait, wait? You adapted and came up with the popular ladder build I see all day on korean streams?" We like a pretty nice detailed writeup, but don't be surprised at the reaction given the introduction.
Side, Side Note: Learning micro with the 4warpgate against proper 3warpgate/robo defense or will do the user more good in the long run than just finding a build to ride to diamond. It really helps with 3warpgate expand builds against Zerg.
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What do you do when the opponent uses a forcefield so split your army in half on the ramp?
Or is there some way to prevent this?
I normally keep trying but that hasn't really worked out so well.
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The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? Its definitely faster. Put a pylon on the side of their ramp and then warp units into their base past the force field.
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed. I would stay away from All-in strategies, and just use a K4G pressure push to get ahead instead of an "All-in" strategy.
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On December 17 2010 22:05 Roban wrote:
What do you do when the opponent uses a forcefield so split your army in half on the ramp?
Or is there some way to prevent this?
I normally keep trying but that hasn't really worked out so well.
If you use this strategy, this will always happen, and the only way to stop it is to build a pylon on the side of their ramp so you can warp in units in their base...or get a Warp Prism.
All-in strats like this get owned by sentries force field, just like the 7 RR and the marine all in.
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I use a similar build for like 3 months in pvp, no other build gives similar good chances vs a variety of builds the other P can do. But I use 5 gates variation. It gets countered by any 3+ gateway play with good FFs.
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On December 17 2010 17:09 Hammertime wrote:
24 @~350 minerals 3 Gateways (chrono core)
^^ small typo I believe sir, shouldn't that be 450 mins?
Actually I did mean 350, because that's the mental trigger I use when queuing my gateways up, but I will change it to 450 for the sake of clarity. Thanks. ^^
On December 17 2010 19:57 Phael wrote:
I'm not sure what type of K4G you're playing against, but an optimized K4G has 4 zealots warping in at 5:05, a full 40 seconds before this build's stated 5:45. ... <etc.>
You may have a point here. Let's test it. If you are correct, I will edit my OP. Shlowpoke.494
On December 17 2010 22:15 Rage178 wrote:
The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? ...
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed.
How many Sentries are you going to have at 5:45? How much does that cut into your army? Can you FF before the Zealot gets up the ramp, giving vision to all the Stalkers? You may be able to delay the 1st wave, but can you stop the 2nd, or the 3rd?
In my experience, any 2nd-gas-after-core Robo build that relies on a Sentry for defense straight-up DIES to the Zealot wave if not to the 1st wave. If you would like to test it, my ID is Shlowpoke.494
Btw, FF isn't as reliable as people think. If you go 3-Gate Blink, you can Blink 1 Stalker past the FF for vision and then Blink the rest up. Or just run a Zealot up first.
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On December 17 2010 22:15 Rage178 wrote:
The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? Its definitely faster. Put a pylon on the side of their ramp and then warp units into their base past the force field.
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed. I would stay away from All-in strategies, and just use a K4G pressure push to get ahead instead of an "All-in" strategy.
Korean 4 gate is horrible, its much easier scouted, its MUCH more all-in than this build is, my favorite part about your post is how you say stay away from all ins but then advocate using Korean 4 gate "pressure" to get ahead, Korean 4gate cuts so many more probes than this build. With this build you can transition out of it very easily into midgame, you dont even have to attack if you see your opponent is prepared and play a standard midgame, with the Korean 4 gate you have no choice of transitioning out of it if you see your opponent is prepared. You have to do a ton of economic damage or kill your opponent to be able to win with the Korean 4 gate
*edited for spelling and grammar*
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On December 17 2010 23:24 Response wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 22:15 Rage178 wrote:
The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? Its definitely faster. Put a pylon on the side of their ramp and then warp units into their base past the force field.
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed. I would stay away from All-in strategies, and just use a K4G pressure push to get ahead instead of an "All-in" strategy. Korean 4 gate is horrible, its much easier scouted, its MUCH more all-in than this build is, my favorite part about your post is how you say stay away from all ins but then say advocate using Korean 4 gate "pressure" to get ahead, Korean 4gate cuts so many more probes than this build. With this build you can transition out of it very easily into midgame, you dont even have to attack if you see your opponent is prepared and play a standard midgame, with the Korean 4 gate you have no choice of transitioning out of it if you see your opponent is prepared. You have to do a ton of economic damage or kill your opponent to be able to win with the Korean 4 gate *edited for spelling*
Response, you're the only decent player who has a clue what you're talking about in this thread, but I would have to disagree with you that K4G is "horrible." You're 100% correct on all the points you're making about K4G though. But just because you can stop it doesn't mean it won't work on 99.99% of other players, and thus I don't think it's fair to say that it's a horrible build.
For everyone else - K4G beats this build because
1) K4G can afford to get 1 zealot without slowing down the first set of warp-ins, which will defend against the 1st zealot that this build might send to harass
2) K4G can always send out a 2nd probe to build more pylons in the opponent's main if a stalker is chronoed to kill the initial probe. It is impossible for a 12 gate to stop a competent K4G from setting up pylons in the opponent's main.
3) Someone said you get zealots out at 5:05 with a K4G - well yea that's with the optimized impossible build order. In reality you warp them in at 5:20, but that's still a ton of time before the warp-ins from this build kicks in. Then you have 5 zealots vs 1 zeal 2 stalker, and you're either going to lose probes or mining time. Which essentially means you lose, because you'll never be able to keep up with constant warp-ins if you lose probes or have your mining be stopped.
EDIT: And to the OP, I don't really mean to bash your guide, it's definitely one of the strongest builds out there in PvP, period. So thank you for actually writing it up - most people probably already know it but it'll help for the newer players.
And for those of you who are saying that 4 gate every game won't help you get better - that may be true in PvT and PvZ but unfortunately in PvP there is no hard counter to 4 gate, so the reality is that you won't become a better PvP player until you learn the many variations of 4 gate and how to counter them.
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Somenone did this vs me about a month ago it's just insane pressure if you go anything other than 4 gate yourself and even then it can be quite tough. Solid build thanks for the replays.
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On December 18 2010 01:16 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 23:24 Response wrote:On December 17 2010 22:15 Rage178 wrote:
The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? Its definitely faster. Put a pylon on the side of their ramp and then warp units into their base past the force field.
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed. I would stay away from All-in strategies, and just use a K4G pressure push to get ahead instead of an "All-in" strategy. Korean 4 gate is horrible, its much easier scouted, its MUCH more all-in than this build is, my favorite part about your post is how you say stay away from all ins but then say advocate using Korean 4 gate "pressure" to get ahead, Korean 4gate cuts so many more probes than this build. With this build you can transition out of it very easily into midgame, you dont even have to attack if you see your opponent is prepared and play a standard midgame, with the Korean 4 gate you have no choice of transitioning out of it if you see your opponent is prepared. You have to do a ton of economic damage or kill your opponent to be able to win with the Korean 4 gate *edited for spelling* Response, you're the only decent player who has a clue what he's talking about in this thread, but I would have to disagree with you that K4G is "horrible." You're 100% correct on all the points you're making about K4G though. But just because you can stop it doesn't mean it won't work on 99.99% of other players, and thus I don't think it's fair to say that it's a horrible build. For everyone else - K4G beats this build because 1) You can afford to get 1 zealot without slowing down your first set of warp-ins, which will defend against his 1st zealot that he might send to harass you 2) You can always send out a 2nd probe to build more pylons in his main if he chronos out a stalker to kill the scouting probe. It is impossible for a 12 gate to stop a competent K4G from setting up pylons in your base. 3) Someone said you get zealots out at 5:05 with a K4G - well yea that's with the optimized impossible build order. In reality you warp them in at 5:20, but that's still a ton of time before the warp-ins from this build kicks in. Then you have 5 zealots vs 1 zeal 2 stalker, and you're either going to lose probes or mining time. Which essentially means you lose, because you'll never be able to keep up with constant warp-ins if you lose probes or have your mining be stopped.
K4G doesn't beat this opening. You recognize that you might be up against K4G when you see a 10gate, and you know you're up against K4G when they pull probes off gas as their core is warping in. By this time, all you've done is a 12 gate, gas, and then core immediately following the gate. The ideal response is to immediately start a zealot at 100 minerals, which this build does anyway.
In other words, this opening starts with the perfect counter to K4G and allows you to scout a K4G in plenty of time to respond and crush the attack. If you open with this build and lose to K4G, you've screwed something up.
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total agree with kcdc... noway a K4G can beat this build.
Make +2gate instead of 3, and you will have 3zeal+1stalker when the 1st wave come, then warp is up and you can add +3zeal to crush army+pylons.
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On December 18 2010 04:59 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 01:16 Anihc wrote:On December 17 2010 23:24 Response wrote:On December 17 2010 22:15 Rage178 wrote:
The thing about this build is that a competent protoss can just use sentries to keep your army out, and then 1 base colossus or just get immortals. This build is actually weaker than a Korean four gate, so why would you not just use a 1 gas K4G to get zealots and stalkers? Its definitely faster. Put a pylon on the side of their ramp and then warp units into their base past the force field.
Any PvP strategy where you have to walk into your opponents base is only going to work if your opponent did not get sentries. If your opponent did get sentries, he can block you out until he gets a 1base colossus, and then you are screwed. I would stay away from All-in strategies, and just use a K4G pressure push to get ahead instead of an "All-in" strategy. Korean 4 gate is horrible, its much easier scouted, its MUCH more all-in than this build is, my favorite part about your post is how you say stay away from all ins but then say advocate using Korean 4 gate "pressure" to get ahead, Korean 4gate cuts so many more probes than this build. With this build you can transition out of it very easily into midgame, you dont even have to attack if you see your opponent is prepared and play a standard midgame, with the Korean 4 gate you have no choice of transitioning out of it if you see your opponent is prepared. You have to do a ton of economic damage or kill your opponent to be able to win with the Korean 4 gate *edited for spelling* Response, you're the only decent player who has a clue what he's talking about in this thread, but I would have to disagree with you that K4G is "horrible." You're 100% correct on all the points you're making about K4G though. But just because you can stop it doesn't mean it won't work on 99.99% of other players, and thus I don't think it's fair to say that it's a horrible build. For everyone else - K4G beats this build because 1) You can afford to get 1 zealot without slowing down your first set of warp-ins, which will defend against his 1st zealot that he might send to harass you 2) You can always send out a 2nd probe to build more pylons in his main if he chronos out a stalker to kill the scouting probe. It is impossible for a 12 gate to stop a competent K4G from setting up pylons in your base. 3) Someone said you get zealots out at 5:05 with a K4G - well yea that's with the optimized impossible build order. In reality you warp them in at 5:20, but that's still a ton of time before the warp-ins from this build kicks in. Then you have 5 zealots vs 1 zeal 2 stalker, and you're either going to lose probes or mining time. Which essentially means you lose, because you'll never be able to keep up with constant warp-ins if you lose probes or have your mining be stopped. K4G doesn't beat this opening. You recognize that you might be up against K4G when you see a 10gate, and you know you're up against K4G when they pull probes off gas as their core is warping in. By this time, all you've done is a 12 gate, gas, and then core immediately following the gate. The ideal response is to immediately start a zealot at 100 minerals, which this build does anyway. In other words, this opening starts with the perfect counter to K4G and allows you to scout a K4G in plenty of time to respond and crush the attack. If you open with this build and lose to K4G, you've screwed something up.
Sorry, maybe my usage of pronouns was confusing, I'm not sure if you understood what I was trying to say because your reply doesn't make any sense. I've edited my post to try to clarify it a bit.
Explain how 1 zeal 2 stalker beats 5 zeal without losing probes or mining time?
EDIT: I'm not saying that you can't counter a K4G, because obviously you can adapt your build after a 12 gate to stop K4G. But you're going to have to deviate from the build order outlined in the OP in order to successfully defend against it.
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I am currently doing something similar until someone beats me with a more macro oriented build. If i see k4g or 2 gate i do other builds. It is not very easy to pull off correctly so if you can do it correctly i think you derserve the diamond you get.
I am a very macro oriented player otherwise, but until it is possible to macro in pvp i do this build.
vs terran i do a 1 gate expand build. vs zerg i do different pressure into expand or 15 nexus depending on map.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Renamed "NexGenius" to "Standard" as this is indeed the standard 4gate.
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Thank you oZii!!! *Thumps Up* and thank you OP, very well laid out.
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Thanks, although I rarely incorporate 4 gate into my play, when I do my build is usually unoptimized and crappy.
Nice post.
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On December 18 2010 08:39 Plexa wrote:
Renamed "NexGenius" to "Standard" as this is indeed the standard 4gate.
I am honored that Plexa has bestowed upon this build the title of 'standard.' xD
I do not mind the title switch at all. I was tempted to call it that, but I've seen SO many pro players do different kinds of 4 Gates than this one... so it felt wrong to call it that myself. If everyone seems to agree that this should be the 'standard' 4 Gate though, I will not object. It's the best, most flexible yet still hard-to-scout 4 Gate, in my opinion.
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Thanks for this. It cleaned up my 4 gate play a lot. This provides a really solid foundation from which to tech or expand.
Just played a bunch of 2v2's with my zerg buddy and this is fantastic when combined with a zerg partner going roach.
Lost a game to cloak banshee and a game to heavy muta and realized that there are some solid follow-ups after the 4x zealot wave:
- Terran going banshee or Protoss with mostly zealots (going DT): throw down second gas and a robo to get an observer out.
- Terran going tank: throw down second gas and a robo and pump immortals and some sentries.
- Zerg going muta or Protoss going void ray: throw down second gas and go for a stalker heavy mix
- Opponent(s) succesfully holding their ramp: expand or tech.
Love it.
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didn't know you needed a guide on how to 4 gate warp
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This is a VERY old build, it's been done and used for months... I'm not sure why you posted this though, but K4G does hard-counter this build/2 gate zealot.
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Thats actually one kind of 4gate but a little faster.
BTW korean hits between 5:00 - 5:40 so they should own this build (unless u deny proxy pylon)
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On european ladder everyone does this build at my level ( 3050 diamond). Every game it is 4gate against 4gate 20 probes each (except some cannonrushes/proxy gate) . Its pretty micro intensive, and i like it.
4gate is no cheese in PvP: it is standard
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PvP is the dirtiest matchup there is. Anything where cheese is standard is just silly.
Us Protosses should be more kind to one another, I mean c'mon, we're all playing the underpowered race here, right? Right?
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On December 27 2010 22:24 Barca wrote:
Us Protosses should be more kind to one another, I mean c'mon, we're all playing the underpowered race here
protoss....underpowered???
you're a fucking retard
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 27 2010 22:34 Debolt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 22:24 Barca wrote:
Us Protosses should be more kind to one another, I mean c'mon, we're all playing the underpowered race here protoss....underpowered??? you're a fucking retard
You didn't include the part of my quotation where I sarcastically remarked: "right? Right?"
Emphasis on sarcasm. You might want to edit your post and not sound so mean for misunderstanding my post. :/
I forgive you
EDIT: I see you posted before that you believe Protoss was doing so bad in the GSLs because no good players play Protoss. Do you by chance have a split personality, or do you enjoy contradicting yourself? How can Protoss be super powerful but also bad because no one plays them?
I unforgive you
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On December 19 2010 18:30 Triky wrote:
Thats actually one kind of 4gate but a little faster.
BTW korean hits between 5:00 - 5:40 so they should own this build (unless u deny proxy pylon)
This is wrong.
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On December 27 2010 23:23 tchan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:30 Triky wrote:
Thats actually one kind of 4gate but a little faster.
BTW korean hits between 5:00 - 5:40 so they should own this build (unless u deny proxy pylon) This is wrong.
Actually it is rather correct to an extent.
The K4WG all in smacks right about a good 30 seconds before the first 4 stalkers are warped in for this build. This is as its BO is 10 gateway, and it uses 1 chrono more on WG research than this build as it does not chrono out its first stalker.
The problem is that as 4 stalkers warp in, there will be either 4 or 8 zealots in the base. One zealot to a stalker, and the other 4 can disturb mining, destroying the constant warping in from all 4 gates. The best counter it has is the chronoed first stalker can kill the probe and try to prevent the zealots from warping in-base. Then it goes back to the norm way of defending K4WG all in again.
Also, regarding the first zealot coming out earlier completely killing the use of K4WG all in, it's actually slightly rare nowadays to find K4WGers who don't do a complete wall off. Of course it's dangerous because you can't reinforce with a probe if your first one dies though.
And, surprisingly, I don't think there is another build other than this that can actually hold off K4WG all in with better chances. Other than probably a super unorthodox 3 gate pumping zealots until WG research finishes.
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solid write-up, nice one!
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On December 27 2010 23:41 shucklesors wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 23:23 tchan wrote:On December 19 2010 18:30 Triky wrote:
Thats actually one kind of 4gate but a little faster.
BTW korean hits between 5:00 - 5:40 so they should own this build (unless u deny proxy pylon) This is wrong. Actually it is rather correct to an extent. The K4WG all in smacks right about a good 30 seconds before the first 4 stalkers are warped in for this build. This is as its BO is 10 gateway, and it uses 1 chrono more on WG research than this build as it does not chrono out its first stalker. The problem is that as 4 stalkers warp in, there will be either 4 or 8 zealots in the base. One zealot to a stalker, and the other 4 can disturb mining, destroying the constant warping in from all 4 gates. The best counter it has is the chronoed first stalker can kill the probe and try to prevent the zealots from warping in-base. Then it goes back to the norm way of defending K4WG all in again. Also, regarding the first zealot coming out earlier completely killing the use of K4WG all in, it's actually slightly rare nowadays to find K4WGers who don't do a complete wall off. Of course it's dangerous because you can't reinforce with a probe if your first one dies though. And, surprisingly, I don't think there is another build other than this that can actually hold off K4WG all in with better chances. Other than probably a super unorthodox 3 gate pumping zealots until WG research finishes.
Eh, I supposed I dismissed it rather quickly when I read '5:00-'.
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Hi, I was just trying this out in YABOT and I notice that when I chrono the first stalker, the gateway is idle for a while until the other 3 gateways drop. It seems like, from a purely optimal numbers side, you should chrono the second stalker instead.
Is the chrono stalker just to deny scouting, or am I doing it wrong and there shouldn't be a gap?
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It's not allin and I wouldnt say it's a onesided win vs robo either. If you don't mess your ff up you can hold it off.
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On December 28 2010 16:40 quillian wrote:
Is the chrono stalker just to deny scouting, or am I doing it wrong and there shouldn't be a gap?
it's just to kill the probe before you throw down your additional 3 gateways.
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People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this?
here's a replay
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-176937.jpg)
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On December 29 2010 00:17 WrathOfAiur wrote:People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this? here's a replay
agree, and if you pressure with your zealot stalker, if he has zealot sentry he will lose it or throw down his force field at 5:10 or something. If it is very long rushdistance then he might have zealot stalker and sentry when you attack with zealot stalker. But i think you still should attack and try picking off any unit and you of course lose your zealot+ stalker shield in the process.
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On December 29 2010 00:17 WrathOfAiur wrote:People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this? here's a replay
If you're defending with 3 gate robo, you should be putting forcefields at the bottom of the ramp so they can't gain vision of the top of the ramp to warp in units up there. Otherwise, there's really no way to defend it when you have less units...
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On December 28 2010 16:40 quillian wrote:
Hi, I was just trying this out in YABOT and I notice that when I chrono the first stalker, the gateway is idle for a while until the other 3 gateways drop. It seems like, from a purely optimal numbers side, you should chrono the second stalker instead.
Is the chrono stalker just to deny scouting, or am I doing it wrong and there shouldn't be a gap?
You're not doing it wrong. The gateway is idle for a little bit. I used to chrono the second stalker for the same reason, but then I realized that the second stalker isn't going to be out in time for anything other than the warp gate attack even if you chrono it. So I decided to just throw the chrono on the first Stalker for faster defense and the chance to shoo away the probe.
On December 29 2010 00:17 WrathOfAiur wrote:
People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this?
Ah, yeah. NexGenius tried to do that as well. If you don't place it just right the pylon can get attacked from the high ground on certain maps though. However, I think if your build is timed just right he won't have enough Sentry energy to hold you off for any significant amount of time anyway. And if he doesn't FF every single one of the units out, your Stalkers get to shoot from the low ground. Then when you finally get up the ramp he has a bunch of no-DPS Sentries to defend.
I really think you have to put early pressure on this build or go eco 4-Gate to hold it off with any sort of advantage. I saw iNcontroL do an early pressure to Robo build, if your heart is really set on Robo. I'll try to find it.
Yeah here it is: iNcontroL vs Arcanne PvP on LT. The build is awkwardly timed, but you should get the general idea. I think the 3rd Zealot should have been a Stalker.
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On December 29 2010 01:32 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 00:17 WrathOfAiur wrote:People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this? here's a replay If you're defending with 3 gate robo, you should be putting forcefields at the bottom of the ramp so they can't gain vision of the top of the ramp to warp in units up there. Otherwise, there's really no way to defend it when you have less units...
watch the replay.
you warp in units ON the ramp, but BEHIND the forcefield. you don't need vision of the highground for that.
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On December 29 2010 01:38 WrathOfAiur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 01:32 Anihc wrote:On December 29 2010 00:17 WrathOfAiur wrote:People keep stating that you can fend this off with 3 gate robo and the use of forcefields. that's just not true. if you place a proxy pylon directly in front of the ramp, you can warp in zealots BEHIND the forcefield. if this is executed properly: how on earth should you defend this? here's a replay If you're defending with 3 gate robo, you should be putting forcefields at the bottom of the ramp so they can't gain vision of the top of the ramp to warp in units up there. Otherwise, there's really no way to defend it when you have less units... watch the replay. you warp in units ON the ramp, but BEHIND the forcefield. you don't need vision of the highground for that.
Yeah, this is a problem. It still blocks out melee units, but all the ranged units on the bottom can attack easily. Kind of negates the use of forcefields.
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I don't think 3gate robo can get out enough sentries to continously block the ramp anyways. And once you run out of forcefields it is gg because Sentries aren't particularly powerful in battle.
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On December 29 2010 01:56 ForTheDr3am wrote:
I don't think 3gate robo can get out enough sentries to continously block the ramp anyways. And once you run out of forcefields it is gg because Sentries aren't particularly powerful in battle.
IIRC, 4 sentries can maintain constant forcefields. In truth, though, you probably need 5-6 because if you miss one of the forcefields you're going to have to F10 > N.
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Liquipedia (and I think day9 mentioned it once) says 6 sentries. I don't think Sentries are the correct answer to this 4gate. You will have to get up 4 gates yourself (or perfectly macro out of 3 gates) and survive long enough until his economy kicks him in his own butt.
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if you are doing a 2gate robo or 3 gate robo (2nd gas right after core) the only way to defend is to make sure 2 of your first 4 units are sentries (preferably 3rd and 4th) once your core is finished. you don't want them to have sight up your ramp if they have a pylon warping in so ff at the bottom.
keep pumping sentries as the energy on your existing ones dwindle. once I have 6 or 7 units and 2 ff's saved up, i like to let the guy get sight up the ramp. they will instantly warp in 4 zealots on the high ground, but don't worry. just ff the ramp once more, back your units off from stalker fire (you should be zealot light when doing this) and just kill the 4 zealots without letting the ff break.
this will put you quite a ways ahead. if you just perma ff the bottom of the ramp he will just retreat and expo or tech without having lost much of anything, and you won't have map control til you get some cols out
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Nice guide OP - definitely helps people practice their 4gate. The only time someone's K4WG'd me properly and I've beaten it was when I saw the 10gate and threw down a forge. Went 3gate forge, got 2 cannons in base near my mineral line (I simcity around my nexus in PvP) and combined with the 3 warpgates I held off the push, switched to a 4gate with +1 and powered through. Haven't tested this extensively, but I did have time to switch to it from my original plan of normal 4gate. Might be worth trying out a bit more thoroughly.
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EPT
