EPT[D/H] The end of Supply Depots? - Page 2
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dooge
Germany31 Posts
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ShadowIord
Spain32 Posts
P.D: Thats to many mules, but if u can cast 10-15 of them should be enough | ||
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Lockindal
United States73 Posts
i have thought about this but timing attacks would totally rock you since it does cost the same; but you are delayed significantly EDIT: i think this would work actually, but only for tvz and tvp ofc. just turtle like a champion with the ccs and by the time they have the tech to break the turtle you wont be turtling anymore and will be able to make mass destruction balls | ||
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CortoMontez
Australia608 Posts
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theherder2
United States538 Posts
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30to1
105 Posts
On December 02 2010 17:44 Roban wrote: This is a really nice idea, but I'm wondering about 1 thing. How long does it take for an Orbital Command to pay itself back, starting from when you start building the command center, and including the mining time lost by the SCV building it? I think the 90 seconds you stated with the MULE is a bit misleading. Still, it might be very worthwhile to start using Orbital commands to build walls. I'm definitely going to try this out when I play Terran some time. You're right! It is a little misleading. Total build time including orbital is 155 seconds and it will take 200 seconds to earn 608 minerals + 10 scvs (there is funny math with mule income and constant scv production cost / income). My math is rough, but thats about it. So yes, there is certainly a strong weakness at around 5 minutes if you rush straight for mass orbital. After this - the returns start to kick in really fast. EDIT: theoretically you should be a more vulnerable than a zerg FE - but your returns should kick in faster, and you get mules regardless of if you build army. Plus, you can salvage bunkers and PF is ridiculous... | ||
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deji
Estonia46 Posts
On December 02 2010 17:43 30to1 wrote: This is still extreme theory. I would try various builds out first to figure out how to make it reasonably survivable first (obviously). I will also post my best build when I get a little more time to try out more shit - again I think fitting in an engineering bay and PF early on might be a good way (PF is the most cost effective defense in game, especially since your scvs aren't really needed to continue income). What I thought about, is early game, place two (or four?) CC's at your ramp so you form a tunnel to your base and put marines on the other side. Lings and roaches don't have the range to shoot the marines, but marines should have the range to shoot lings and roaches in the tunnel. Put a bunker at the end of the tunnel. There should be no way he can push in through there. Then tech to tanks/pull SCVs to repair to stop him from killing the CC's from the ramp where you don't have the range to shoot with marines. You don't have to expand from your base until it's mined out if you go for a unit mix light on gas and use 24SCVs+mules. | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
On December 02 2010 17:57 deji wrote: What I thought about, is early game, place two (or four?) CC's at your ramp so you form a tunnel to your base and put marines on the other side. Lings and roaches don't have the range to shoot the marines, but marines should have the range to shoot lings and roaches in the tunnel. Put a barracks at the end of the tunnel. There should be no way he can push in through there. Then tech to tanks/pull SCVs to repair to stop him from killing the CC's from the ramp where you don't have the range to shoot with marines. You don't have to expand from your base until it's mined out if you go for a unit mix light on gas and use 24SCVs+mules. I think that you need to expand with the CC on 14, the extra SCV income matter. Further, I mined out my main in under 10 minutes in one build where I didn't expand. Seriously. EDIT: I think the trick is just walling off the natural instead of main. CCs have a huge footprint, you can cut off a giant area with them and if the natural is threatened, you can just float it... you still build energy while floating so you won't lose mule income. | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
My first reaction is OMG ITS BRILLIANT. My immediate reaction after that is "but there is absolutely no way...." Still brilliant, though... My thinking on the matter is it won't work because a command center takes 100 seconds to build, and then a further 35 seconds to morph into an orbital command. You had to bank 400 minerals to even begin this process. So it means your investment of 400 returns nothing for over TWO MINUTES of game time. By contrast, it takes 17 seconds to build an scv and it starts building immediately. So it seems you would need to start the game playing standard in order to be at all competitive. So you get a couple depots to get 30ish workers on 2 bases and then start massing command centers since you have the income to build them in parallel. Very economically focused build, you would need heavy bunkering to not die to a timing push, if it's possible at all. This style needs a name. Seriously. Orbital style? Eh. Whatever. I'm going to go try this right now. | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
1) Gas is the scarce resource in SC2, not minerals. Unless you want a 200/200 Marine army, trying to max your mineral income will just leave you with lots of excess minerals stockpiling while you wait for the next 100 gas to come in 2) It takes a long time to build a CC, so you can't possibly keep up with the rate at which you need to add supply. You are going to get supply blocked. 3) Periodically spending 400 minerals on supply is going to mess with your macro. Instead of maintaining constant production while adding depots, there will be long (5-10 second) periods where you are not producing anything while you save up 400 minerals. I'm interested to see where this line of thinking will end up though. Props to the OP for thinking outside the box, this is the kind of thing we need to see more of in this game imo~ | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
FuRong sort out some of the reasons. One more thing to notice though: Beside mineral and gas. Time is also an resource in SC/SC2. Your analysis completely ignore that. You can build CC instead of supply but as you say, the CC will only pay for itself after ~4 mins, and you need to build several CCs. Waste all that time is gonna be brutal. | ||
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deji
Estonia46 Posts
1) Gas is the scarce resource in SC2, not minerals. Not if you mine out every single base on the map in 25 minutes :D 24SCVs + 10 mules should mine around what, 2500 minerals per minute? That would mine out an expansion in like 4-5 minutes.. plus this stuff works exponentially, the more minerals you get, the more you can make CCs, the faster you can mine everything out. | ||
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Falaras
United States6 Posts
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Tossup
United States208 Posts
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Conrose
437 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On December 02 2010 17:39 30to1 wrote: I think the advantage would max at around 12 minutes if its possible to get a ~3k income at 10 without getting killed. My first not shitty build had mined a total of 10,700 minerals at exactly 10 minutes, stopping CC production here and just spamming army/mule would mean around 16,000 minerals worth of crap at 12 minutes. That should honestly just be more than any other race can possibly handle. 12 minutes is a really really long time without seeing your opponent. | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
 id be interested to see a replay that proves me wrong however. | ||
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Azn_Christian
United States153 Posts
 mules and like 14 scvs and the rest sac to repair. keep up w/ mule timing and u won't need that many scvs to mine mine. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
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