EPTBanelings vs. Structures? - Page 2
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On December 01 2010 04:54 bobucles wrote: To kill the SCVs, you mean? 20 damage isn't much against a Thor. Crashing through a PF takes at least 16-19 banelings, which is NOT cheap. It seems to be a very expensive way of getting the job done. Yes, he means the scv's, you hurt the thor and definitely the PF, but you kill many scv's which ends the repair process. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On December 01 2010 07:50 emc wrote: banelings were made for terran and zerg, maybe not intentionally for zerg but that's how they panned out. Against toss I find them effective only in the very early game and the very late game. Early game, their splash can actually wreck sentries if they are close enough to the FF (if you get a surround this is possible) making ling/bling pretty effective early game but it's a risk. Late game they are the own with drops on colossi and sentry balls. I would say banelings are good against Toss just because they destroy sentries so well and they are so valuable. Banelings are ok against a zealot heavy toss, which you rarely see post 1.12. But with lings being so good against zealots and stalkers provided you keep up with upgrades it seems a waste to turn them into blings. Especially when you know you're going to be seeing some sentries. | ||
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Bucky0Hare
Canada19 Posts
So it is inefficient to take out his natural expo with 30 blings in comparison to a 3rd or 4th expo as long as you have a much bigger economy and later in the game. The dmg is nearly instant and time is money right? | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On December 01 2010 05:40 Uncultured wrote: This is just soooooo wrong. Banelings are not cost effective against one building, ever. Especially not the highest health building you can possibly go after. Remember, banelings are one time use. A couple fungals for the scv's and one mutalisk would be the most cost effective counter to a PF. Or hell, just mutas. They'll splash the scv's, and can't take damage from the PF. Lol U clearly don't play Z. Banelings, pre broods and ultras ARE the most effective way of taking out a PF lol Sure mutas are good, but a Terran that has the state of mind to PF an expo will always build turrets there too, so mutas become redundant. Banelings are not cost-effective but are used for the quick/hard hitting. A pf is meant to stall for time till the T army comes back. Banelings kill the PF's fast enough that reduces the time the T can re-inforce. Play Z sometimes to appreciate how cost-effective your protoss units are. (i'm playing P to appreciate how fast Z can replenish army/drones) =] | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On December 02 2010 03:57 me_viet wrote: Play Z sometimes to appreciate how cost-effective your protoss units are. (i'm playing P to appreciate how fast Z can replenish army/drones) =] When I play Z tbh I cry at how easy it is to get your third without having lings and mutas surround and slaughtering it, and at how you can get away with not building any units until you actually see the opponents army ;o And I appreciate P cost-effectiveness until I remember about roaches and marauders. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
Also, a lot of the time a PF will be built at a high yield (Xel Naga Caverns for example) so that helps too. | ||
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
The latter also includes:
Ultralisks: similar issues. Mutalisks: Massing enough muta's while being able to hold off Terrans pushes. Where 19 Banelings..... I definatly have 19 Zerglings floating around somewhere....... >.> It's quicker in the end to use Banelings. Any expo that is mining is more resources for Terran to catch up. It's not resource efficiant, but looking at the long term it has a greater detrimental economic impact for Terran. | ||
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Buff Chicken
Canada2 Posts
But against buildings, I think a few to weaken it and than roll in with the army works well, straight Banelings may not be effective against a main base, unless they are all very closely packed supply depots or bunkers, because splash can hit several at once, and either destroy the defense in terms of bunkers, or stop any more production by destroying depots. | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
For example, a wall-in at the top of a ramp. Strictly speaking it's not at all cost effective to destroy a depot with banelings. However if that hole in the wall in lets you pour in with zerglings and do immense economic damage, then the banelings paid for themselves many times over. | ||
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telfire
United States415 Posts
On December 01 2010 05:40 Uncultured wrote: This is just soooooo wrong. Banelings are not cost effective against one building, ever. Especially not the highest health building you can possibly go after. Remember, banelings are one time use. A couple fungals for the scv's and one mutalisk would be the most cost effective counter to a PF. Or hell, just mutas. They'll splash the scv's, and can't take damage from the PF. I'm sorry but you're mistaken. There are many instances of pros using Banelings against Planetaries. If you are in a position where you can afford to lose that much army, it is absolutely the best way to do it. Your fungals will never go off, the range is too short. Anything you throw at a Planetary is going to die. I'm not saying it's always a good idea to take out a Planetary with Banelings, but it IS sadly one of the best ways to do it. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
On December 01 2010 05:40 Uncultured wrote: This is just soooooo wrong. Banelings are not cost effective against one building, ever. Especially not the highest health building you can possibly go after. Remember, banelings are one time use. A couple fungals for the scv's and one mutalisk would be the most cost effective counter to a PF. Or hell, just mutas. They'll splash the scv's, and can't take damage from the PF. Only because of how you're trying to define cost-effectiveness. It's more than worth it to deny a 3rd when you're already up a base. It's more than worth it to bust a hole in a wall to let the rest of your army in. It's more than worth it when you don't have the luxury of time to beat on a CC/OC/PF while it's getting repaired and their army is coming. There are many situations where its worth it, which is exactly why it gets done, even in the high rounds of GSL. "Never" is just a stupid thing to say in this scenario, when "never" is clearly wrong. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
On December 01 2010 05:40 Uncultured wrote: This is just soooooo wrong. Banelings are not cost effective against one building, ever. Especially not the highest health building you can possibly go after. Remember, banelings are one time use. A couple fungals for the scv's and one mutalisk would be the most cost effective counter to a PF. Or hell, just mutas. They'll splash the scv's, and can't take damage from the PF. If you think banelings are a bad choice against planetary fortresses, then you need to play more SC2. | ||
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Obsolescence
United States270 Posts
Search: Banelings answer to weak There is a thread that discusses the use of dropped banelings v Toss and it's really quite effective. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On December 01 2010 05:37 Uncultured wrote: Baneling cost efficiency is in splash damage, not specific damage types. Hit two or more buildings at a time and they're being cost effective. Terrans that do a double rax factory wall off are giving you more area to hit. IF you focus your banelings on the factory, through the choke of the two Baracks, all three buildings will fall. Is there a picture floating around on the internet that shows in nice friendly colored circles what the splash radius looks like versus how much damage is done at a given distance from the point of impact? I know that if you roll right into a barracks/double SD wall, and suicide them all at a barracks, it'll splash enough to kill the SD's too... but I generally don't use banelings because I don't understand the splash mechanic very well. | ||
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Lavitage
United States71 Posts
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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Gimpb
293 Posts
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Seragon
Canada26 Posts
On December 04 2010 10:01 mlbrandow wrote: Is there a picture floating around on the internet that shows in nice friendly colored circles what the splash radius looks like versus how much damage is done at a given distance from the point of impact? Here is what you need to know about baneling splash: It doesn't go down over distance. The damage is even across everything it hits. When you're going after that PF, run your banelings around the sides to try to splash the workers too. When you're busting a terran wall off, aim for the most central building and you'll take out the supply depot on the side while splashing everything around it, taking out addons and starting production on fire. When you're chasing workers but can't quite catch up, don't be afraid to detonate yourself as you will still get some. Abusing baneling splash is awesome :D | ||
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