Just played a game that left me rather confused. Instead of stopping with one banshee, my opponent just kept spamming them along with vikings. I didn't really notice this until the point where he has a critical mass of vikings and my mutas weren't really able to stop it. After that point, he just sniped all of my Overseers and rained hell on me with the banshees. At one point I give up on the muta play and go to hydras, but I can't protect my detection.

I'm a really sloppy player at 1700 diamond, so there's alot of little things wrong with my play but what specifically lost me this game, and what could I have done better?

EDIT: Infestors probably would have helped, if they weren't instagibbed... not sure why I forgot about such a key unit in that game.

Deleted User 109835

629 Posts

November 26 2010 23:28 GMT

--- Nuked ---

tmzu

58 Posts

November 26 2010 23:40 GMT

Well if hes getting both banshees and vikings, you should be able to outproduce him with mutas which own vikings.

Buffy

Sweden665 Posts

November 26 2010 23:45 GMT

The reason you lost was almost due to poor decision making and non-existing scouting trough the whole game. You held off the inital banshee harras pretty good. Then you were getting a third expo and started some muta production with lings support and had the upgrades going and everything looked fine and dandy to me.

Then all of a sudden, you are slowing down on muta production and going more heavy on lings, you didn't saturate your third expo, and didn't even try to saturate it until far and late in the game. And you didn't scout your opponent almost at all, so you had no idea what units to make or how to upgrade them or what to do really.

But all that aside, you could have won the game if it weren't for 2 attacks you made right into his expo. I dont know why you feelt you needed to do that at that point, and dont see the reasoning. In the end you wasted like 15-17+ mutas on those attacks and uncountable numbers of lings attack into a strongly fortified position.

If you would not have made those attacks and just keep on expanding that game, scouted a bit better, that game would probably have been yours. It wasn't the vikings that killed you there really. It was your decision to attack into a heavily fortified front with tanks on high ground marines and 3-4 towers shooting at your mutas.

Things you should really work on is your scouting and macro. You floated a lot of minerals/gas for long periods of times and got supply locked even though you had both larva/minerals to make overlords.

And before doing an attack like that next time or feeling the urge to do so, fly a muta over there or an overlord or run a speedling there to check how it's looking what units he has, or just how fortified it is.

All I got to say about it. Sorry if I come of as a dick, and sorry for my bad english. Hope this help you improve

Sigil

United States44 Posts

November 26 2010 23:46 GMT

On November 27 2010 08:40 tmzu wrote:
Well if hes getting both banshees and vikings, you should be able to outproduce him with mutas which own vikings.

I was trying that, but as the other person pointed out, my scouting failed me a bit. He was rolling around the map with a good number of vikings and I couldn't get up enough mutas to deal with it. It just didn't seem to be working that game. I guess I should have just kept pumping mutas?

Sigil

United States44 Posts

November 26 2010 23:57 GMT

On November 27 2010 08:45 Buffy wrote:
Then all of a sudden, you are slowing down on muta production and going more heavy on lings, you didn't saturate your third expo, and didn't even try to saturate it until far and late in the game. And you didn't scout your opponent almost at all, so you had no idea what units to make or how to upgrade them or what to do really.

But all that aside, you could have won the game if it weren't for 2 attacks you made right into his expo. I dont know why you feelt you needed to do that at that point, and dont see the reasoning. In the end you wasted like 15-17+ mutas on those attacks and uncountable numbers of lings attack into a strongly fortified position.

I'm not entirely sure what happened with my macro. I felt like I just lost direction and wasn't sure what to do. Future note, if that happens - scout. I figured it was the second attack, I lost so many mutas and then his viking count climbed over mine.

On November 27 2010 08:45 Buffy wrote:
If you would not have made those attacks and just keep on expanding that game, scouted a bit better, that game would probably have been yours. It wasn't the vikings that killed you there really. It was your decision to attack into a heavily fortified front with tanks on high ground marines and 3-4 towers shooting at your mutas.

Things you should really work on is your scouting and macro. You floated a lot of minerals/gas for long periods of times and got supply locked even though you had both larva/minerals to make overlords.

And before doing an attack like that next time or feeling the urge to do so, fly a muta over there or an overlord or run a speedling there to check how it's looking what units he has, or just how fortified it is.

All I got to say about it. Sorry if I come of as a dick, and sorry for my bad english. Hope this help you improve

Something was off in that game specifically, I just went into panic mode and my macro faltered. I've been trying to get better with my OL placements, and have been relying on them for my scouting, but the vikings weren't helping. The panic is what made me fall apart I feel like, I started getting supply locked, forgot to saturate, and pretty much made me attack him without any real reason. I've grown too accustomed to people doing standard play that I don't bother to scout mid game, time to change some habits.

Thanks for the reply! Also, if I was scared of criticism, I wouldn't post on TL asking for it. ^^

Tivo

United States121 Posts

November 27 2010 00:17 GMT

You built roaches, lings, and ultras against vikings and banshees. That was your mistake.

klauz619

453 Posts

November 27 2010 01:31 GMT

You realize mutas smash banshees in equal numbers right?

And he will never match air unit numbers against you due to zerg's huge macro advantage, and that he has to build banshees which means he has less ability and resources to match your muta production?

Talack

Canada2742 Posts

November 27 2010 01:39 GMT

Mass hydras or mass mutalisks would destroy this I'd assume :S

Mutalisks will own vikings in equal numbers without any upgrades. If the terran player is smart he'll get +1 to his armor and then you're in real trouble since most tests indicate he'll come out way ahead in vikings once he's gotten an armour upgrade.

Gryffes

United Kingdom763 Posts

November 27 2010 01:50 GMT

#10

Hydra infestor kills it super fast.

spritzz

Canada331 Posts

November 27 2010 01:51 GMT

#11

As for overseer sniping, fungal de-cloaks so if you have spare resources.

vaLentine88

United States61 Posts

November 27 2010 01:54 GMT

#12

I encountered this about a week ago on the ladder on Scrap Station. I had no problem fending this off with +1 attack on my mutas and mixing in a few corruptors once I saw his commitment to air.

Ente

Germany1795 Posts

November 27 2010 01:55 GMT

#13

Mutas would smash banshees independed of their number :p just a matter of time
I assume you mean that mutas smash vikings thats wrong. Yes Mutas might beat vikings (barely) but they dont smash them. Imho the vikings are underrated vs mutas
the easiest way to deal with that is probably infestor/hydra

Azzur

Australia6255 Posts

November 27 2010 07:58 GMT

#14

I play a variant of this build where I go thor/marine/banshee. Once I secure my third base, I transition into air by popping down 3-4 more starports and mass viking/banshee/thor/marine. In my opinion, this is a solid build on maps where you can secure your 3rd easily (e.g. shakuras, LT, etc).

The key to beating this build is to realise that you can't just roll the build. For example, hydra/infestor will beat this army on the field, but the terran doesn't have to engage if it's unfavourable. Mutas can do well but if the terran plays defensively, they can retreat to their PF/ground army. I'm not saying that zerg doesn't have counters against this build, but you have to expect a fight and not just expect to timing push (or all-in) the against the build and kill the terran.

A.J.

United States209 Posts

November 27 2010 08:08 GMT

#15

On November 27 2010 08:40 tmzu wrote:
Well if hes getting both banshees and vikings, you should be able to outproduce him with mutas which own vikings.

Can't you kite mutas with vikings? A terran player used this same strat against me a couple games ago. I tried getting more minerals, but he outproduced me with his vikings.