[H] 5 Roach versus 4 Gate

On November 17 2010 02:36 Effect010 wrote:
I recently played a 1on1 on Xel´naga caverns... I played the five roach rush and some lings while he went for a 4 gate...i went up the ramp got forcefielded and lost everything..what could i have done better? where were my mistakes? my opponent siad i should have retreated after kicking his gate but i don´t think that i had done enough damage and would simply be counterattacked.

here´s the replay:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-2978958/5roachvs4gate.SC2Replay.html

i´m about 1100 diamond and he was 600 diamond.

On November 17 2010 02:41 Akill_ wrote:
tbh your first mistake was assuming that a 5 roach rush would do anything versus a defended ramp by protoss.

my first suggestion if you do this regularly would be to send a solo ling up the ramp first and keep the rest back in the fog. if his army size looks breakable/no sentries around go for it.

Otherwise this rush seems pretty weak, i dont play z but from what ive gathered you sac econ for thisrush. if it doesnt work the p can just macro from a decent economy and a good unit infrastructure and within a couple minutes he will be pounding on your door. especially if he works out you rushed for the roaches.

On November 17 2010 02:47 Effect010 wrote:


i thought the roach rush works out against a 4 gating protoss...i have never had good experiences with expanding against that build... but tbh i think without the forcefield i would have won...

edit: thinks like this only works out against low level players^^

On November 17 2010 02:52 Akill_ wrote:



this is my point. protoss is bound to have some early defence mechanism versus zerg. against melee/range 4 units and a single tile ramp its bound to be a decent forcefield. the theme is common throughout early game p v z. protoss use their buildings and forcefields to stop the early zerg threat from having potential by denying alot of combat manuevers. Protoss who have learnt the hard way will always get out the sentry for the forcefields and back it up with some decent dps from the stalker or a cannon.

I would probably look towards exploring an economy build for zerg that encompassed an expansion and lings/spines for defence. 1 base z v 1 base p is very likely to allow p the macro victory if he has weathered z storms before

On November 17 2010 02:36 Effect010 wrote:
I recently played a 1on1 on Xel´naga caverns... I played the five roach rush and some lings while he went for a 4 gate...i went up the ramp got forcefielded and lost everything..what could i have done better? where were my mistakes? my opponent siad i should have retreated after kicking his gate but i don´t think that i had done enough damage and would simply be counterattacked.

here´s the replay:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-2978958/5roachvs4gate.SC2Replay.html

i´m about 1100 diamond and he was 600 diamond.

On November 17 2010 03:09 MilesTeg wrote:
Hm total theory crafting here but couldn't you use an overlord for vision on some maps? And at least pick off some buildings to let the lings do the work.

Sorry if it's noobish!

On November 17 2010 04:09 liano wrote:
IMO 7RR > at your 5RR + metaboost build : simply because it's done like 30sec sooner.

You arrived at his base just when his warpgates were done, so he just had to buy some time and warp some units to ruin your push.

you could have had an overlord for vision and pick off that pylon on the edge to supplyblock him and also don't kill the gateways lol XD, enter past them and kill units + pilons or probes, but gateways got too much health, it's a waste of time.

On November 17 2010 02:41 Akill_ wrote:
tbh your first mistake was assuming that a 5 roach rush would do anything versus a defended ramp by protoss.

my first suggestion if you do this regularly would be to send a solo ling up the ramp first and keep the rest back in the fog. if his army size looks breakable/no sentries around go for it.

Otherwise this rush seems pretty weak, i dont play z but from what ive gathered you sac econ for thisrush. if it doesnt work the p can just macro from a decent economy and a good unit infrastructure and within a couple minutes he will be pounding on your door. especially if he works out you rushed for the roaches.

On November 17 2010 03:09 MilesTeg wrote:
Hm total theory crafting here but couldn't you use an overlord for vision on some maps? And at least pick off some buildings to let the lings do the work.

Sorry if it's noobish!

On November 17 2010 03:05 Jayrod wrote:

5RR and 7RR are both very weak openers in my opinion that dont play towards the strengths of the race. Some ~2000 zerg 7 RR'd me and i had 2 stalkers out, 2 more about to pop and warp gates nearing completion and I held it off, losing quite a few workers but more importantly still realizing i had a huge advantage. Putting 14 supply into an army that early as zerg is pretty counterintuitive and it really tips your opponent off to counter attack once theyve dealt with the push. When I cleaned up his army i pushed out immediately and was met half way to his base by about 16-20 lings. Well lings without speed just plain suck so once I saw that he wasted even MORE larva on things other than drones i knew i had already won. I picked lings off, waited for blink to finish and promptly crushed him.

When you're forced to choose between drones and units it makes early aggression feel very all in. As your opponents get better and as they have more solid builds, builds like 5rr and 7rr will just completely stop working for you. Roaches without speed are easy to micro against as are lings without speed. Lings WITH speed on the other hand, will make your opponent think twice about pressuring you as much without fast blink.