|
On November 08 2010 12:02 Eminent Rising wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:26 Kurdaj wrote:
I just said that the Marauder is imbalanced. I want to amend that - Marauders are not imbalanced against Gateway units, because Marauders are not supposed to be the same as Gateway units. In the same way that a single Phoenix is "imbalanced" against a single Mutalisk, Marauders are supposed to be better than Gateway units. They were made that way, and that's the way it is.
u just compared a marauder to a phoenix. that is retarded as hell. a phoenix utterly sucks vs anything thats not a mutalisk whereas the marauder can rape ALL armored units on top non armored units like zealots. blizzard cites the zealot as being the counter to marauders but this is a joke. marauders can kill an infinite amount of zealots with little micro. the marauder can do everything vs all toss ground making it cost effective and all purpose.
Any unit will kill any other unit in the game if that units strengths and weaknesses are not taken into account and it is not properly supported. Zealots supported by sentries will destroy marauders (force field behind them).
Zealots supported by stalkers + maybe one Immortal or one Collosus will wreck large groups of biological units. This advantage slowly disappears the more tanks he gets and the more effectively he uses them.
In regards to the OP. Early pushes use to scare the hell out of me, hell, from Zerg they still do. 7 roaches at 3:50 is a little difficult to do anything against. But general pushes, force field, force field, force field. I'm not particularly familiar with "pokes", but if they just try and get it and do some damage then leave, then it's not a problem. Otherwise if it's a hard push, I just keep popping out sentries until I can get a decent unit composition to counter whatever they have out there.
|
Without reading anything at all, I dislike the OP's use of the word rush.
|
Stalker 1:1 with a marauder leaves the Marauder left with 1 hit.
All a protoss player has to do when scouting the fast tech lab is to make 2 Stalkers to hold off a possible reaper harass or a 2 marauder concussive push.
Stalkers will get first hit on the marauders due to ledge advantage, or they can pull off some probes.
I really don't recommend Zealot Stalker as the first two units to counter early T pushes because it's quite easy for T to micro around your zealot and focus fire on the stalker.
|
On November 08 2010 11:26 Kurdaj wrote:
Now, workers can't catch up to each other - your early scouting Probe sees all of this. As soon as your Gateway finishes, you build a Cyb Core right away. That's all completely standard. Furthermore, this fast Tech Lab may indicate Reapers. So you won't build a Zealot first because you know as a veteran player that you need a Stalker first.
So surprise surprise, a Marauder pops out and kills your Probe, and you don't know if the Marauder is on his way or the Terran is just building up an army to take his natural. The Cyb Core is complete, and you won't have time to make a Zealot AND a Stalker before the Marauder(s) arrive, if the Terran is attacking at all.
You have no idea what's going on - all you think you know is the Terran might be inclined for early aggression. You have energy saved up at your Nexus to CB the Warp Gate tech - do you delay WG research to get a fast Zealot out - a unit that you know is useless against a Marauder?
No, this is very wrong. It doesn't matter what comes out of that tech-labed barracks, you are going to get a zealot while the cybercore completes. Even if its a reaper, you get that zealot first. Back when proxy reapers were all the rage vs. toss in beta, you got that zealot first.
Why Mal!? Thats just crazy talk!
It doesn't matter that the zealot will never hit a properly microed reaper. You get that zealot, because they can take quite a beating, and it buys you time for you cybercore to complete so you can build a stalker. Even back in the day, zealot chasing the reaper combined with some probe micro could minimize, or even outright prevent, probe casualties to fast reapers - and today's reapers come out way, way later.
Zealot stalker is also quite good vs. marauder. If the marauder is not using its concussive shell on the zealot, then the zealot can get hits on, even with good stutter step micro. The zealot does more dps to the marauder than the stalker, so if the marauder really wants to focus on the stalker, its going to actually be worse. Even then, probes are quite decent vs. marauders in the early game, and 3-4 probes can quickly clean up any leftover marauders along with your next warpgate unit.
This push is much better with a marine first, to kill the scouting probe, but whatever - unless you are doing some sort of 2gate -> double chrono stalker push, you tend to get that zealot, precisely because its a necessary tank for your stalker vs. any early agro. You could blindly prepare for this with 1 gate zealot ->stalker -> stalker + probe pull, even if you were planning on 1 gate FE and didn't want to scout. Its a very solid poke, and it can kill inexperienced protoss, but its hardly some sort of expected game-winner.
|
This works so well against any P, to narrow it down:
Concussive Shell > Zealots
1 Marauder > 1 Stalker
.. and Sentries just die
I haven't failed with this yet, even with five Marauders against all probes and six gateway units
|
|
|
This guy had a robo going before he had a single attacking unit. That is pretty risky.
This won't work against me, but this is because I actually open with sentry first.
It's true that it catches a lot of protoss though, the same people who complain about gateway units not being able to hold out against mm. It all comes down to sentry usage basically. Shields, forcefields, hallucinations and all.
A lot of people actually try doing this against me and then it's just forcefield -> free kills.
On November 08 2010 12:02 Eminent Rising wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:26 Kurdaj wrote:
I just said that the Marauder is imbalanced. I want to amend that - Marauders are not imbalanced against Gateway units, because Marauders are not supposed to be the same as Gateway units. In the same way that a single Phoenix is "imbalanced" against a single Mutalisk, Marauders are supposed to be better than Gateway units. They were made that way, and that's the way it is.
u just compared a marauder to a phoenix. that is retarded as hell. a phoenix utterly sucks vs anything thats not a mutalisk whereas the marauder can rape ALL armored units on top non armored units like zealots. blizzard cites the zealot as being the counter to marauders but this is a joke. marauders can kill an infinite amount of zealots with little micro. the marauder can do everything vs all toss ground making it cost effective and all purpose. A pretty good example here. You know that a marauder can't kite you with a forcefield up his back. Or that hallucinations spawn no less than two fake zealots?
He can only slow one zealot at a time. MM until like 30-40 supply can be taken out by gateway units of same supply. You just have to use your sentries well. Hallucination is a thing people often forget. Just fake 8 extra zealots and you're fine.
|
lol this push, well protoss i face now easily stops this
this will not work in higher diamond
|
I just beat a 1800 diamond players (twice) using this strat. I'm a 1000 platinium players.
Before using this BO I was probably winning like 30% of the time vs Protoss
|
Alright, let's all just calm down.
OP: Early pokes with marines and marauders are often effective, because those units are great in small numbers. This is known. However, when you post a strategy, most people like to have an answer to the question: "How would this fare against somebody who played reasonably well?", so it's good to include replays of people doing normal builds. Such as making a zealot, and then a stalker.
Everybody else: Early pokes with easily-micro'd units are a pretty decent plan. This poke should never win a game, but it can provide some early pressure and screw with people. It's not the worst thing ever.
-Cross
|
a lot of terran players are just implying this strat wrong i think. just because it works 3-4 times doesn't mean it's a standard work for all against all "protoss". top level terran players are the most reactive to scouting and reacting to scouting is a very important feat as a terran player. sure this strategy works and it should be incorporated into ur gameplay, but it isn't really and shouldn't be a standard opening to vs all protoss players. game is still young and constantly evolving as i see new strats being posted everyday and people thinking that these new strats will replace old strats -- completely not true. strategies should be accumulated that's why the game lasts long because people are thinking of new ways to do new things; but it doesn't mean that you should stop using the old stuff. i used this strat back in beta phase i and it worked a lot when marauders came with concussive as a passive skill. i still use it now and then and kill of top level players but it doesnt' mean it works everytime.
i forgot who wrote this but, "you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time -- but u can't fool all of the people all of the time".
|
Marauders are bad anyway. Marines deal the DPS in the terran bioball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
