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Netherlands9913 Posts
How can you ever stop this when he can pump out units so much faster? I don't think an earlier sentry will do it as he can just wait for the FF to finish and then kill you as you only have energy for 1. If you split his marines he will have sight up the ramp anyway and they can all attack. I'm ~1200 diamond btw. Replay: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-163134.jpg) | ||
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Reggae-Troll
Finland241 Posts
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KotaOnCue
United States180 Posts
Other than that, you just had an unlucky break with that FF. I think if you had gotten a better one off, it would have stalled the attack long enough to hold it off, even with him reinforcing. Some micro with that stalker against his halved army would have also bought you a few more seconds and pulling probes would provide a shield for that stalker. By the time you pulled the probes off the line, it was too late. | ||
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Bleb
Croatia278 Posts
I recommend you watch some Testers replays / vod ... gsl match vs hyperdub comes to mind... In my experience (800 pts diamond however) don't even bother with zealots... they just melt away I usually try to counter with good FFs, or if I scouted it early with stalker's poking (they have range 6 and marines have range 5) send your stalker to meet his army, take 3-4 shots before he gets to your base and you'll win because of high ground. basically it's all about unit control | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
A lot of terran that early 2 rax are going to rush you fast with marauders, so I'm surprised he went marines. I always feel like I'm alone in my marine craze. If I can find a way to post a replay link like you did, I got 1 or 2 TvP where I stim rush and it gets stopped by forcefields. Anyone hint me how to post a link like that? | ||
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
Any moment your not doing 1 of these click your army group, mine i keep as 1, and click F, and i hover it at my choke, ready to either completely deny access, or cut their army in half. If terran stims and runs up and i fail to FF its GG. Keeping an eye on the terran army/your choke is of upmost importance when terran is doing this kind of 3 rax push. Like in drivers ed, cover your brakes, cover your horn (be ready to do either) Against a terran timing push up your choke, the FF will be the difference between GG, or you eating there army up. Que up your FF, and aim it at your choke and keeping doing this. make probe que FF, make units, que FF, chronoboost building, que FF. If you have 200+ apm you might be able to get away with simply keeping an eye on terran army from up your cliff, but I prefer to simply have it que'd. (and FF length is 15 in game seconds, which is like 10 real seconds so in that time you could potentially make another sentry, delaying for another 10 secs 20 sec if you warp in 2, warp in 2-3 stalkers [you shouldnt try to hold a 3 rax with less then 2 gates] all of which will help you hold off marines, and/or even pull 3-6 probes to help if you really need) | ||
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j0k3r
United States577 Posts
On November 05 2010 23:24 s4m222 wrote: If you see a terran doing a 3 rax push, you MUST keep your sentry FF aimed at your choke at all time, except when your clicking probe with your hotkeyed nexus and making/warping in units. Any moment your not doing 1 of these click your army group, mine i keep as 1, and click F, and i hover it at my choke, ready to either completely deny access, or cut their army in half. If terran stims and runs up and i fail to FF its GG. Keeping an eye on the terran army/your choke is of upmost importance when terran is doing this kind of 3 rax push. Like in drivers ed, cover your brakes, cover your horn (be ready to do either) Against a terran timing push up your choke, the FF will be the difference between GG, or you eating there army up. Que up your FF, and aim it at your choke and keeping doing this. make probe que FF, make units, que FF, chronoboost building, que FF. If you have 200+ apm you might be able to get away with simply keeping an eye on terran army from up your cliff, but I prefer to simply have it que'd. (and FF length is 15 in game seconds, which is like 10 real seconds so in that time you could potentially make another sentry, delaying for another 10 secs 20 sec if you warp in 2, warp in 2-3 stalkers [you shouldnt try to hold a 3 rax with less then 2 gates] all of which will help you hold off marines, and/or even pull 3-6 probes to help if you really need) I hardly find this necessary, and no I don't have 200 apm. I think its much more helpful to be active with a scouting probe to see when he moves out of his base, and then followup by sending talkers to have a look. You should have a tower w your stalker as well to help see the push. Retreat it as soon as the army comes into view. Constantly paying attention to minimap and scouting units rather than queing ffs indefinitely is better imo since u get to see his army comp and gives u some map control. | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
On November 06 2010 00:24 j0k3r wrote: I hardly find this necessary, and no I don't have 200 apm. I think its much more helpful to be active with a scouting probe to see when he moves out of his base, and then followup by sending talkers to have a look. You should have a tower w your stalker as well to help see the push. Retreat it as soon as the army comes into view. Constantly paying attention to minimap and scouting units rather than queing ffs indefinitely is better imo since u get to see his army comp and gives u some map control. Adding to this, if you see him move out with only marines, send your stalkers in and kite him all the way to your base, since stalkers are both faster and have longer range. | ||
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Crosswind
United States279 Posts
1.) Figure out if he's taking gas or if he isn't. If he's not, you are getting marine rushed. 2.) Don't build zealots. Chrono out stalkers. As soon as you have a stalker, go start taking shots at his marines. Kite them all the way back to your base. If your micro is good, focus them down. If your micro is bad, just shoot 'em randomly. Doesn't super-matter, your goal is to weaken. 3.) If they get to your base, pull probes and slaughter 'em. Probes will kill weakened marines quite fast, particularly with stalkers firing. -Cross | ||
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Doctorjorts
58 Posts
On November 06 2010 01:17 Crosswind wrote: Three things are important here: 1.) Figure out if he's taking gas or if he isn't. If he's not, you are getting marine rushed. 2.) Don't build zealots. Chrono out stalkers. As soon as you have a stalker, go start taking shots at his marines. Kite them all the way back to your base. If your micro is good, focus them down. If your micro is bad, just shoot 'em randomly. Doesn't super-matter, your goal is to weaken. 3.) If they get to your base, pull probes and slaughter 'em. Probes will kill weakened marines quite fast, particularly with stalkers firing. -Cross One of day[9]'s first newbie Tuesdays dealt specifically with this, and said the exact same things. It was a marine/svc rush against protoss. OP, I'd suggest looking it up. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
Note: this is one reason why you don't build too many zealots early against T. If you FF the bottom of the ramp and are attacking with mostly zealots, they will melt to the marines below the FF. Stalkers, however, outrange marines. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
He only had 14 SCVs, you had 22 probes. If they are going for a BS-ey allin rush like that its ok to lose those probes, they had probably already payed themselves in mining time at that point. | ||
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gdub
United States38 Posts
He only had 14 SCVs, you had 22 probes. If they are going for a BS-ey allin rush like that its ok to lose those probes, they had probably already payed themselves in mining time at that point. very key. remember that if his army looks impossibly large for the early game he had to cut corners somewhere and you should always use ANY available resource you have to your advantage. It may be tough to get scouting information after you know he has marines in base and you haven't gotten an observer yet, but try to consider what he has based on the info you know. 10 marines at your door early should tell you hes cutting production to fuel an early rush, and that he probably has very little tech at that point. | ||
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
On November 06 2010 00:24 j0k3r wrote: I hardly find this necessary, and no I don't have 200 apm. I think its much more helpful to be active with a scouting probe to see when he moves out of his base, and then followup by sending talkers to have a look. You should have a tower w your stalker as well to help see the push. Retreat it as soon as the army comes into view. Constantly paying attention to minimap and scouting units rather than queing ffs indefinitely is better imo since u get to see his army comp and gives u some map control. I mean this in the context when the terran is at the bottom of your choke waiting to stim up. Unless you did a 4 gate, which does okay vs 3 rax, you will be in a defensive turtle position, with your units in base waiting at choke. If their not at your choke, as stated above scouting/minimap do fine. Dont lose any units that were at Towers... you will need every single one if the terran is good with his 3 rax. | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
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brainpower
United States233 Posts
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
1. he rushed tier1 with no tech, you went for tech. your sentry is there to forcefield and stop him getting in, which is essential like any anti-cheese action. you misplaced the forcefield. 2. guardian shield is insanely powerful against mass marines, you effectively cut their dps by 30-40%. don't underestimate the power of workers to defend an overwhelming rush. i've had to pull scv's countless times to defend against warpgate rush... and come back to win a fair few. it makes me facepalm in team games where my ally gets rushed, has no units left and leaves his workers on minerals while enemy beat on his base... like he expects my small army to kill off both enemies. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
You SHOULD get a Zealot. The purpose of the Zealot is to quickly rape the marines that you cut off with a forcefield. Get one Zealot, and then one Sentry so it starts accumulating energy. Stalkers are good. When he charges up the ramp, you should forcefield at I would say about the middle, trying to shave off 3 - 4 marines. The Zealot should soak the damage while your stalker/sentry cleans up whatever marines you shave off. Warp in another Sentry right after this first engagement if you do not have another forcefield ready from your Sentry. Most people (me included) execute their push so that it hits the Protoss base right when you are finishing warpgate research. The safest response after this is probably to just take your natural off of warpgates (you can push him out of your natural area once you have 4+ stalkers and some sentries, make sure to carefully kite and dont lose any stalkers) and transition straight to 2 base colossi. A good Terran will expand while pushing with Marines, but he won't be in a position to exert much map control after his initial push, and he will likely get a bunker wall at his natural to prevent any busts. Don't try to punish the expansion, as it's too easy to lose a gateway army to bunkers. Trust that you are far ahead on tech (you have your robo up already, right?), and get that Colossi out with range started off 2 base. | ||
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