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[Q] Why do pros build so little AA (esp. turrets)? - Page 5

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Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
November 05 2010 15:50 GMT
#81
On November 05 2010 05:02 nanoscorp wrote:
Even with a missile turret up, Nada lost half his mineral line to a single banshee. The range thing mentioned earlier matters, it takes more than 1 turret to cover a mineral line from air harassment.

I think the tipping point should be cloak: ie if your opponent shows you a cloaked banshee, matching him with a turret or two is worthwhile. You know he's invested fairly heavily at that point, and you'll save yourself a MULE or two worth of minerals down the line with some static detection and harvester protection. Also, day9 mentioned timing of defensive structures in a fairly recent show and I think it applies here: when your army is chilling at home, you don't need the static D. On your way out, sure, throw up a couple to provide some insurance. I think of it as closing the door on your way out.

In defense of the pros, I'm not sure we mere armchair QBs understand the speed at which armies build up and get thrown at each other. 4-6 marines do matter, quite a bit in some of the confrontations, and the price there isn't 25 energy on your CC, it can be losing your whole army. Sure, a couple turrets would be nice, but so would not losing your whole base to a ground push.


A couple turrets in one base is cost effective vs banshee tech. A couple turrets in 3+ bases isn't.

Cannons and spores are 150 a piece making them much less cost effective vs air harass. From personal experience, cannons are only useful against zerg.
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
November 05 2010 16:01 GMT
#82
On November 04 2010 22:43 FrankWalls wrote:
the question is, why do non-pro players build SO MUCH anti air


My take on this is that at lower levels:

A) They don't have the multi-task, macro, micro, or game sense to successfully defend and attack at the same time. I know that when I was getting started in the beta, having not played SC1 for a few years and never having been great, it was helpful to use the crutch of throwing down a handful of Spores when I moved out to attack, simply because I didn't quite have the ability to defend myself from an air counter while adequately controlling my offensive units.

B) Players struggle to keep their minerals low so they think they can "afford" to mineral dump with a handful of stationary defense (when in reality that money could be put toward expansion and mobile defense).

Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
November 05 2010 16:04 GMT
#83
On November 05 2010 05:23 Twaxter wrote:

The more static D you make, the more holed in you get.

The other player will let you have your base, but he'll get the whole map.

That is terrible logic. I'd like to see what your stance on this when you lose every single one of your probes because you were on the other side of the map with your army and the opponent decided it would be smart to walk a dozen lings into your base, or leaves several mutas slaughtering your workers without it hitting all that deep into his army size to defend your push. Make 2 cannons in your mineral lines, save 30 probes. Decent trade off imo.

And to those people who are arguing that defences are immobile, so your opponent can just go around, tbh most people including pros walk right into static d and thusly look like a moron all the time. Watch a single BW PvT game where a couple turrets stops an arbiter warping in the whole freaking protoss army, and then tell me that turrets are not worth it.

Also, do not argue that static defences are unnecessary 9/10 games, because it is only true if your opponent does not go for any harass. If my opponent is not going DTs, mutas, or banshees ofc I wouldn't build cannons everywhere, that would be stupid. Also, forges, E-bays and evo chambers are not 'dead minerals'. Click on forge, click on one of the buttons, and you can make your whole army stronger. Why wouldn't you build one or two?
IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-05 16:40:12
November 05 2010 16:21 GMT
#84
lol i think pro players have other uses for their min than static defenses.. maybe they just want to kill their opponent's bases? A few extra units can make a huge difference in army collisions. 6 more marines to reinforce can mean you break their army leaving you with a larger % army intact.
i'm in silver (actual play may be different due to improvements) and love to put down spore crawlers, but mutas and an overseer (or a moveable force) are a lot more effective, as the enemy air force muscle down a crawler and then snipe my workers right outside the range of my other crawlers. I usually have at least 3 spores (one for each gas and one behind minerals).
I'm also very fond of the baneling drops... and know from much experience that a loose wall of turrets can't stop my drops right into their mineral line (and i even get almost all my overlords out alive) but marines with focus fire and stim is a lot more of a pain.. and usually results in me having to retreat my ovies..same thing with my muta harrass at around 7-10 mins.. i usually pray that my opponent sinks a lot of money into static anti-air.
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