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[G] Bumblebees Guide to Playing with Low APM - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Merlinius
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
November 01 2010 02:09 GMT
#61
At the beginning of the game, hotkey a single probe. When the first building is made, hit P and click the furthest point on the screen in the base. This makes the unit move back and forth between the initial building placement and location far from the last placement. When the 7 hotkey is pressed twice, the screen will center on the probe and the player can build at the location the screen has centered on. This has the effect of allowing the protoss player to quickly cover their base in power fields without having to rely heavily on screen movement. This also means the probe is always where the building is to be placed, which reduces the time required for a mining probe to goto the building location. This also eliminates the need to use an action to rally the worker back to minerals.


I'm not sure I really understand this. Are you suggesting to take a probe off mining permanently and have it patrol in your base? If so, I don't see the advantage over just hotkeying a probe and taking it off the minerals for 3 seconds at a time in order to warp in a building when necessary.

Btw. I don't like the idea of hotkeying the production facilities on 2-6. This will lead to 1A syndrome because you only have one (close) hotkey for your army. Personally, I would reserve 1-3 for the army (or other temporary stuff like the scouting probe).
Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 03:30:09
November 01 2010 03:26 GMT
#62
On November 01 2010 11:09 Merlinius wrote:
Show nested quote +
At the beginning of the game, hotkey a single probe. When the first building is made, hit P and click the furthest point on the screen in the base. This makes the unit move back and forth between the initial building placement and location far from the last placement. When the 7 hotkey is pressed twice, the screen will center on the probe and the player can build at the location the screen has centered on. This has the effect of allowing the protoss player to quickly cover their base in power fields without having to rely heavily on screen movement. This also means the probe is always where the building is to be placed, which reduces the time required for a mining probe to goto the building location. This also eliminates the need to use an action to rally the worker back to minerals.


I'm not sure I really understand this. Are you suggesting to take a probe off mining permanently and have it patrol in your base? If so, I don't see the advantage over just hotkeying a probe and taking it off the minerals for 3 seconds at a time in order to warp in a building when necessary.

Btw. I don't like the idea of hotkeying the production facilities on 2-6. This will lead to 1A syndrome because you only have one (close) hotkey for your army. Personally, I would reserve 1-3 for the army (or other temporary stuff like the scouting probe).


You really need to read the rest of the guide.

The idea behind having a probe on patrol is so that it decreases the need to move the camera. This is a big deal for some people. Having probes on minerals is great, and obviously the "best choice" 99% of the time. The problem comes in for people who have very bad mouse control. Having a probe patrolling will allow them to move the camera to an open area, with a probe selected without any mouse movement.

The guide specifically encourages "1a syndrome" as you call it. All I can do is suggest you to actually red the guide and let me know if you have any specific suggestions after that point.

I'll quote a specific section for you that may perhaps help you understand where I'm coming from when suggesting to use one unit group. This assumes you've read the introduction/APM portions.

Unit Hotkeying - Unit hotkeying is putting units into a hotkey for easier access. Low APM players should embrace "one hotkey syndrome", and rely on box and click control of unit groups. This may seem counterintuitive since box/click control requires more actions and more accuracy than simply having multiple unit groups, but like building hotkeys, having to redo or incorrectly making multiple unit groups is usually far more disadvantageous than relying on box/click control. As you advance, I do suggest slowly splitting up unit groups starting with ground and air units. This really should only occur at the point when you have advanced to the stage where basic harassment is possible without causing disproportionate disadvantages to self. Most low APM players will never honestly make it to this point.

A very major advantage to primarily controlling with a single hotkey and box/click selection is that the player can frequently and easily click their main building hotkey once to bring it into the center information window. Since the player is not using hotkeys for primary control, they can monitor energy and spawn larva constantly throughout the battle. This allows the low APM player to substitute their lack of micro with a hyper-awareness of their macro.

A similar method to building hotkeying is recommended for unit hotkeying with a minor difference. The procedure is: ctrl-click, shift-hotkey. This selects all of the unit type on-screen, then adds it to a group. Ctrl-click is more accurate than boxing, and significantly less action intensive than clicking each unit. Ctrl-clicking will require adding each type of unit to the hotkey.



Take note as well that there are very excellent players who frequently play with almost no unit control groups! (reniehour comes to mind). Most "pros" even, while they have many units hotkeyed will control a large portion of them by boxing. The concept is not at all inherently bad, and for the intended reader of the guide it's a huge improvement.
-Frog-
Profile Joined February 2009
United States514 Posts
November 01 2010 03:44 GMT
#63
I don't have any suggestions to add but I'd just like to say that it's fairly badass that you have done so well in SC2 with your disability, I'd like to shake your hand sir.
powered by coffee, driven by hate.
VerdeCreed
Profile Joined October 2010
United States27 Posts
November 01 2010 04:36 GMT
#64
Very well written article.

Wanted to comment on your Terran Macromangement section.

First, the tip about hot keying workers to 7 or 8 was ingenious... can't belive I hadn't thought of it.... Literally I try and "pull a protoss" and have one workers build 10 Rax, but what a great suggestion, gonna help me out big time.

I'm not terrific, and I often forget to use my energy and frequently am getting blocked, so also a great tip on freeing up the supply cap, why not do that at low levels where macro will prevail?

Excellent post!
quarkle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom92 Posts
November 01 2010 12:14 GMT
#65
Bumblebees, thanks for taking the time out to share your thoughts and knowledge. It really is appreciated.
A very well written guide for us low apm'rz
cheers dude.
SilverPotato
Profile Joined July 2010
United States560 Posts
November 01 2010 18:14 GMT
#66
On October 29 2010 23:46 Bumblebees wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2010 22:44 SilverPotato wrote:
Hey Bumblebees! Great write up, I passed this on to a bunch of my friends.

One thing I think you should mention is that Zerg can inject larva from the minimap. Basically Zerg can hotkey queens to 2, Press 2, and hold shift + V and click, click, click... that whacks off about 20 actions required to inject larva


People with low APM due to limitation are not going to benefit by using the minimap for spawn larva. That requires fast fine motor skills where inaccuracy requires repeating the action again with the same requirement.

Minimizing the number of errors greatly increases efficiency, so relying on clicking a very large hatchery is more efficiency than clicking a very small spot on the minimap.

Not only that but your method requires removing eyes from the 'game-screen' for a period of time, and those who have low APM due to focus problems will have difficulty with that as well.


It's a good technique for people to try, but I suspect it's fairly useless if not outright harmful for the people this guide was aimed at.


I can see where you're coming from with this. However I'd like to point a few things out about the differences between Minimap injection and Regular injection in terms of how they limit the user:

Regular injection:
Pros
- Easy to inject comparably (size)

Cons
- Must be done one at a time at a slow pace
- Requires sight of each individual hatchery
- Requires a large number of hotkeys to be used nearing late game
- Draws players attention away from forward attacking units
- Requires more APM overall (mostly more key presses)


Minimap Injection:
Pros
- Fast
- Only requires 1 hotkey (for queens)
- Only requires as many actions as there are hatcheries + 3 (Queen hotkey and then Shift+V)
- Lets the user maintain a view of the battlefield
- Requires fewer key presses and mouse clicks

Cons
- Requires accuracy due to smaller size

Really what I'm saying is, is that yes you're removing your eyes from the "game screen", but if you think about it, you're not removing your camera from the battlefield like you do with traditional injection. So basically you get back to the important things like creeping or attacking unit placement quicker because your camera isn't having to jump around your base Also, the hatch is one of the biggest squares on the minimap, so this method is easier on small maps like Steeps of War, but is still doable on maps like Metal or even Scrap.

I assume though that minimap injection would be harder for someone who is having problems with their mouse hand. However, I can see it really benefiting a person who has issues with their keyboard hand due to the decreased amount of key presses.

Hope this helps clarify everything, keep up the awesome work Bumblebees ^^
"The ability to learn faster than your competitors may be the only sustainable competitive advantage." ~Arie de Geus
keno190
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3 Posts
November 01 2010 19:16 GMT
#67
nice. excellent read. greatly written
Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
November 01 2010 19:26 GMT
#68
On November 02 2010 03:14 SilverPotato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2010 23:46 Bumblebees wrote:
On October 29 2010 22:44 SilverPotato wrote:
Hey Bumblebees! Great write up, I passed this on to a bunch of my friends.

One thing I think you should mention is that Zerg can inject larva from the minimap. Basically Zerg can hotkey queens to 2, Press 2, and hold shift + V and click, click, click... that whacks off about 20 actions required to inject larva


People with low APM due to limitation are not going to benefit by using the minimap for spawn larva. That requires fast fine motor skills where inaccuracy requires repeating the action again with the same requirement.

Minimizing the number of errors greatly increases efficiency, so relying on clicking a very large hatchery is more efficiency than clicking a very small spot on the minimap.

Not only that but your method requires removing eyes from the 'game-screen' for a period of time, and those who have low APM due to focus problems will have difficulty with that as well.


It's a good technique for people to try, but I suspect it's fairly useless if not outright harmful for the people this guide was aimed at.


I can see where you're coming from with this. However I'd like to point a few things out about the differences between Minimap injection and Regular injection in terms of how they limit the user:

Regular injection:
Pros
- Easy to inject comparably (size)

Cons
- Must be done one at a time at a slow pace
- Requires sight of each individual hatchery
- Requires a large number of hotkeys to be used nearing late game
- Draws players attention away from forward attacking units
- Requires more APM overall (mostly more key presses)


Minimap Injection:
Pros
- Fast
- Only requires 1 hotkey (for queens)
- Only requires as many actions as there are hatcheries + 3 (Queen hotkey and then Shift+V)
- Lets the user maintain a view of the battlefield
- Requires fewer key presses and mouse clicks

Cons
- Requires accuracy due to smaller size

Really what I'm saying is, is that yes you're removing your eyes from the "game screen", but if you think about it, you're not removing your camera from the battlefield like you do with traditional injection. So basically you get back to the important things like creeping or attacking unit placement quicker because your camera isn't having to jump around your base Also, the hatch is one of the biggest squares on the minimap, so this method is easier on small maps like Steeps of War, but is still doable on maps like Metal or even Scrap.

I assume though that minimap injection would be harder for someone who is having problems with their mouse hand. However, I can see it really benefiting a person who has issues with their keyboard hand due to the decreased amount of key presses.

Hope this helps clarify everything, keep up the awesome work Bumblebees ^^


I can't think of issues with keyboard use and not mouse use. Any ideas of why/when that'd occur?

I don't mind adding minimap injection into the guide, but I just don't see how someone with APM problems due to limitaiton is going to benefit from using their mouse more and in a more precise manner.



Koronin
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
November 01 2010 20:14 GMT
#69
Wow, I can't believe I missed this post. very well done.

I suffer from peripheral neuropathy (from FOLFOX) and have had to make due with similar fixes/shortcuts.

-_-
Wanna see it? I'll show you something, a middle finger with a barrel and it's f*cking cocked. I got a new way, so you can f*ck yourself!
Milqman
Profile Joined October 2010
27 Posts
April 13 2011 18:33 GMT
#70
I hope I don't get banned for bumping this but it would be worth it anyway so I'm willing to take that risk, this is an incredible guide that barely got looked at.
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
April 13 2011 18:43 GMT
#71
On April 14 2011 03:33 Milqman wrote:
I hope I don't get banned for bumping this but it would be worth it anyway so I'm willing to take that risk, this is an incredible guide that barely got looked at.


Oh my I completely agree. Even for players with high APM. Its just a well written piece about the game that has good info on all the races. I had never seen it before. Thank you for bumping it Milgman!
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
Milqman
Profile Joined October 2010
27 Posts
April 13 2011 19:33 GMT
#72
On April 14 2011 03:43 Wrongspeedy wrote:Oh my I completely agree. Even for players with high APM. Its just a well written piece about the game that has good info on all the races. I had never seen it before. Thank you for bumping it Milgman!


yeah I know, I don't have anything keeping me from increasing my APM, but it was still a pretty good read. And damn I hate font so much, its milQman
Wyk
Profile Joined March 2011
314 Posts
April 13 2011 19:41 GMT
#73
Damn, thanks for bumping. Good thread, I will assimilate what I can.
HARMevent
Profile Joined November 2010
Barbados28 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 23:05:53
April 13 2011 23:02 GMT
#74
Hi everyone, I have had some issues with my hand/arm as a result of bad posture. I replaced my mouse with a Wacom Intuos3 2-3 years ago and have used a large variety of PC tablets for graphic purposes since 1999 or 2000.

[image loading]
Wacom Intuos series

I will share some tips in case someone thinking about getting a tablet stumbles upon this.

1) Never use the "1:1" ratio option.

- Some games will actually not register your mouse position properly (I believe this is the case in Company of Heroes).
- It works in SC2, but going from the center of the screen to the minimap on a decent sized tablet will kill your muscles.
- Use as high of a cursor speed as you can work with. Mine's maxed out (Intuos 3 drivers).

2) Get a pen with at least 3 buttons (tip click, thumb 1 and thumb 2)

- Default for 3rd button is usually double click. However, this double click often does not register in SC2, thus rendering it useless.
- Remap 3rd button to mouse1 or wheel click. Mouse 1 if you feel the need to press mouse 1 quickly (and if your hand's muscles allow it). You can imagine shift-deselecting army is much faster with a secondary mouse1 than trying to accurately click your pencil rapidly in the same spot (trust me - this is difficult)
- If you feel you can't/don't need to spam mouse1, mapping wheel click to thumb2 makes navigating the map real smooth. It feels nice to draw your camera around with a pen.

3) Consider your tablet placement

- Mine's to the right of my keyboard. Thanks to my high sensitivity I can easily navigate SC2 using mainly the bottom left of my tablet. If for some reason you cannot work with a high sensitivity or are forced to use 1:1, I recommend putting the tablet in front of the keyboard or angling your keyboard and tablet to slightly resemble upside down V shape, with you at the center of the gap, of course.
- Needless to say, all this requires sufficient desk space - especially if you are going A5 or A4 size, which you should, for reasons related to precision

4) Don't expect your pen to work (well) in every game.

- I believe Company of Heroes won't let me mouse scroll the map even with the 1:1 option disabled. Real annoying.
- I can play minecraft, but don't expect to be able to play shooter games. No, mapping mouse1 to a keyboard key won't help much (again, I've tried :D).

5) Using a tablet doesn't mean you'll automatically suck

- I'm the worst RTS player in history. I played approx 20-40 online games of Warcraft 3 and I actually didn't win a single one of them (I was using a mouse at the time). Company of Heroes and Dawn of War I was simply terrible at. I can safely say SC2 is my "first" RTS and I ended season 1 as 3200 diamond (zerg). If someone like me can do that as zerg, so can anyone else.

(edit: cleaned up)
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
April 13 2011 23:06 GMT
#75
On April 14 2011 08:02 HARMevent wrote:
Hi everyone, I have had some issues with my hand/arm as a result of bad posture. I replaced my mouse with a Wacom Intuos3 2-3 years ago and have used a large variety of PC tablets for graphic purposes since 1999 or 2000.

[image loading]
Wacom Intuos series

I will share some tips in case someone thinking about getting a tablet stumbles upon this.

1) Never use the "1:1" ratio option.

- Some games will actually not register your mouse position properly (I believe this is the case in Company of Heroes).
- It works in SC2, but going from the center of the screen to the minimap on a decent sized tablet will kill your muscles.
- Use as high of a cursor speed as you can work with. Mine's maxed out (Intuos 3 drivers).

2) Get a pen with at least 3 buttons (tip click, thumb 1 and thumb 2)

- Default for 3rd button is usually double click. However, this double click often does not register in SC2, thus rendering it useless.
- Remap 3rd button to mouse1 or wheel click. Mouse 1 if you feel the need to press mouse 1 quickly (and if your hand's muscles allow it). You can imagine shift-deselecting army is much faster with a secondary mouse1 than trying to accurately click your pencil rapidly in the same spot (trust me - this is difficult)
- If you feel you can't/don't need to spam mouse1, mapping wheel click to thumb2 makes navigating the map real smooth. It feels nice to draw your camera around with a pen.

3) Consider your tablet placement

- Mine's to the right of my keyboard. Thanks to my high sensitivity I can easily navigate SC2 using mainly the bottom left of my tablet. If for some reason you cannot work with a high sensitivity or are forced to use 1:1, I recommend putting the tablet in front of the keyboard or angling your keyboard and tablet to slightly resemble upside down V shape, with you at the center of the gap, of course.
- Needless to say, all this requires sufficient desk space - especially if you are going A5 or A4 size, which you should, for reasons related to precision

4) Don't expect your pen to work (well) in every game.

- I believe Company of Heroes won't let me mouse scroll the map even with the 1:1 option disabled. Real annoying.
- I can play minecraft, but don't expect to be able to play shooter games. No, mapping mouse1 to a keyboard key won't help much (again, I've tried :D).

5) Using a tablet doesn't mean you'll automatically suck

- I'm the worst RTS player in history. I played approx 20-40 online games of Warcraft 3 and I actually didn't win a single one of them (I was using a mouse at the time). Company of Heroes and Dawn of War I was simply terrible at. I can safely say SC2 is my "first" RTS and I ended season 1 as 3200 diamond (zerg). If someone like me can do that as zerg, so can anyone else.

(edit: cleaned up)


what the
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
April 13 2011 23:18 GMT
#76
TL;DR: Play efficiently and think of clever ways to make your hotkeys do as much heavy lifting as possible.
www.infinityseven.net
colloidoscope
Profile Joined May 2011
United States15 Posts
May 23 2011 18:20 GMT
#77
this was such a great read. seriously, thanks so much for this guide.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-31 17:43:18
May 31 2011 17:42 GMT
#78
Terran - As discussed in the race section, terran has the most APM intensive macro.

YES I WIN

+ Show Spoiler +
trollin so hard... good read.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
whoopingchow
Profile Joined June 2011
United States293 Posts
June 20 2011 04:43 GMT
#79
Fantastic guide! I've just started SC2, but this comprehensive a guide (and well-written to boot) definitely gives me hope for improvement. Thanks so much for doing this!
Sanctimonius
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom861 Posts
June 20 2011 07:20 GMT
#80
Great guide, well written and thought out. Very helpful to people with limitations on the way they play.

Also as an aside, I hope that I deal with any limitations in my life half as well as you have. Using what you have constructively is always better than just sitting back and complaining about your lot in life.
You live the life you choose.
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