• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:29
CEST 14:29
KST 21:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll6Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Who will win EWC 2025? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Help: rep cant save ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 930 users

[D] Effects of Turret Placement on Mineral Gatheri

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Fork
Profile Joined August 2010
Russian Federation100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 04:43:17
October 19 2010 04:38 GMT
#1
This may or not be new to some, but i was certainly surprised by doing a few tests with turrets in the mineral lines.

I have always thought that by placing the turret inside the mineral line would hurt economy, and it does, but not as much as i thought.

Usually i would put up turrets around the mineral lines, but this is not optimal, because they are generally harder to repair and easier to pick off. By placing the turrets right up against the CC you are forcing your opponent to draw in much closer, allowing your support units to help quicker

Also, awhile ago i wanted to see if moving your command center back a space or two would have any effect on full base saturation, and found out that it does not, but it does impact gathering rate once turrets are present.

In these two replays you will see the following

MINERAL MATH (game 1)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/92894-1v1-terran-xelnaga-caverns

base gathering of 24 scv's (saturation) is 800-820/min (game time)

with the 2 turrets places against the minerals, and having 1 scv trapped, the gathering rate was 720-740

with the 2 turrets placed against the CC, gathering rate was constricted to 760-780

with the CC moved back 1 space, the gathering rate went back up to 800-820

moving the CC 2 spaces dropped my gathering to ~780

MINERAL MATH 2 (game 2)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/92895-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns

in this game i used only 18 scv's, which is more typical of early game/light expansion type saturation

base gathering rate was 680-700

with the 2 turrets gathering rate dropped to around 650

moving the CC back 1 space proved to be a horrible idea, with the gathering rate dropping to 580


so conclusions:

1. if you're gonna place turrets in your mineral line, put them against the CC rather than against the minerals

2. 50 minerals per minute is your realistic cost of having efficient turret protection in an un-saturated base

3. if you are approaching saturation, turret placement will have no effect on your economy if you slide your CC 1 space outward
"get down!"
s4m222
Profile Joined March 2010
United States272 Posts
October 19 2010 04:53 GMT
#2
1. no one puts static defense against minerals... in conclusion it would be ideal to put turret/cannon on the outside of the min line, or off to the side....
2. sure
3. no one is going to move their cc back whilst mining, whats the cost of lifting and moving CC on a full saturation base?
Fork
Profile Joined August 2010
Russian Federation100 Posts
October 19 2010 05:10 GMT
#3
on a map like delta quadrant i would argue that putting your turrets on the outside is not as effective

also by putting turrets behind the mineral lines means air units can attack the CC from the other end without penalty
"get down!"
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
October 19 2010 05:30 GMT
#4
On October 19 2010 14:10 Fork wrote:
on a map like delta quadrant i would argue that putting your turrets on the outside is not as effective

also by putting turrets behind the mineral lines means air units can attack the CC from the other end without penalty


without penalty? They're not doing guaranteed damage by hitting the CC instead of the workers, and scvs can just repair from the mineral line side (unless its void rays). Also, the other side of the CC is often closer to the inside of the base, from where troops will come to defend = the aerial harass units will get caught between army and turrets and have a harder time running away.

but behind the mineral line can be a problem as turrets can get sniped before you can start repairing them. Maybe i'll begin building one of them against the CC from now
Formerly known as carbonaceous
[HalcyoN]
Profile Joined May 2010
United States163 Posts
October 19 2010 05:38 GMT
#5
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 19 2010 13:53 s4m222 wrote:
1. no one puts static defense against minerals... in conclusion it would be ideal to put turret/cannon on the outside of the min line, or off to the side....
2. sure
3. no one is going to move their cc back whilst mining, whats the cost of lifting and moving CC on a full saturation base?



People do put static defenses in their mineral lines. it allows it to detect over more important areas as well as cover the areas closer to the mineral line with static defense. A cannon off to the side wouldn't cover the entire expanse of the minerals, as minerals in SC2 are pretty spaced out. Two structures would need to be placed for maximum detection/coverage.

There was also actually a thread by Aether about planting the CC back a space to increase miner efficiency. At one space out, each patch can support three workers without any of them bouncing around, thus maximizing worker efficiency. But no one really does this because it increases harass potential.
"I'm already dead"
Malhavoc
Profile Joined October 2010
Italy308 Posts
October 19 2010 07:30 GMT
#6
I see that putting turrets along the CC minimize mineral "loss", but wouldn't it make it harder for the SCVs to repair the turrets when under attack? Putting the turrets in the middle of the space between CC and minerals would let the SCVs surround the turrets if needed, making aerial harassment a lot harder. Of course I "lose" a bit more minerals this way, but could it be worthwhile anyway?
Benshin88
Profile Joined September 2010
United States183 Posts
October 19 2010 07:45 GMT
#7
i think having 1 turret inside the mid field is best because you can repair it instantly. Its cost efficient way to ward off the 1st muta harass./
RedTerror
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
New Zealand742 Posts
October 19 2010 08:10 GMT
#8
Can we get some screenshots of the turret placement?
AWESOME1337
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany29 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:20:20
October 19 2010 09:17 GMT
#9
I think there was a thread, with replays, proving that it does not have any influence to have buildings in your mineral line....

found it:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146308
Fork
Profile Joined August 2010
Russian Federation100 Posts
October 19 2010 13:17 GMT
#10
On October 19 2010 18:17 AWESOME1337 wrote:
I think there was a thread, with replays, proving that it does not have any influence to have buildings in your mineral line....

found it:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146308


actually that thread does not say that it has NO influence, just very little

my replays, just not you-tube embeded, clearly demonstrate an impact (ever so slight) on mineral production if you bothered to watch them while having the income tab open
"get down!"
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 13:34:41
October 19 2010 13:33 GMT
#11
Putting your cc centre 1 or 2 spaces back does not change mining rate at full saturation and off course its logical that the more space between centre and mineral line, the less the turret will influence the pathing
This is true but you forget something
You can even put your cc on the other side of the map and still have the same income with full saturation but the thing wich gets forgotten is that you need more suvs to get full saturation the further your command centre is away
DamageInq
Profile Joined April 2010
United States283 Posts
October 19 2010 13:46 GMT
#12
They way I always saw it is- it takes 3 workers to saturate a mineral patch. The 3rd worker doesn't add near as much income as the first two.

This means there's some waiting time (as I'm sure you all know). So if you add a bit to the travel time of the workers, really your mostly only cutting out of the wait time.

I actually remember a test somebody did where a turret had no negitive effect on mining times when placed in the right spot. I don't know all the details though.
"Scissors are OP. Rock is fine." -Paper
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
October 19 2010 15:17 GMT
#13
On October 19 2010 22:46 DamageInq wrote:
They way I always saw it is- it takes 3 workers to saturate a mineral patch. The 3rd worker doesn't add near as much income as the first two.

This means there's some waiting time (as I'm sure you all know). So if you add a bit to the travel time of the workers, really your mostly only cutting out of the wait time.

I actually remember a test somebody did where a turret had no negitive effect on mining times when placed in the right spot. I don't know all the details though.


This is the wrong way to think about things.

If you're running in to workers switching minerals due to saturation, its time to set up a new base, not move your current one further away.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 444
Lowko327
Nina 230
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 29698
firebathero 4623
Sea 3248
Larva 804
Mind 789
Stork 633
EffOrt 623
JYJ342
Light 335
Pusan 284
[ Show more ]
Last 271
Snow 267
Hyun 234
TY 162
Zeus 152
PianO 111
ToSsGirL 102
Mini 83
Backho 67
Barracks 58
Sharp 58
sSak 45
Sacsri 37
Rush 35
Icarus 27
scan(afreeca) 22
GoRush 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
Noble 11
Shine 9
IntoTheRainbow 9
SilentControl 7
Bale 6
Hm[arnc] 2
Dota 2
Gorgc9411
singsing2638
Counter-Strike
x6flipin656
byalli267
sgares251
Other Games
B2W.Neo1177
DeMusliM363
Fuzer 303
hiko225
SortOf123
Mew2King56
Pyrionflax55
Trikslyr24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2510
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2797
• Jankos1050
Upcoming Events
OSC
31m
WardiTV European League
3h 31m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
11h 31m
OSC
11h 31m
Epic.LAN
23h 31m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
Epic.LAN
1d 23h
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
4 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

JPL Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.