EPTIf your opponent is cought off guard it works well, but again in patch 1.2 this build wont be a variable since the roaches can just kill our fe due to the range incease so why bother perfecting this build anyway.
[G] PvZ Fast Archon Zealot Pressure - Page 2
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Craixs
Denmark170 Posts
If your opponent is cought off guard it works well, but again in patch 1.2 this build wont be a variable since the roaches can just kill our fe due to the range incease so why bother perfecting this build anyway. | ||
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Monsoon
United States14 Posts
On October 12 2010 01:12 PangO wrote: What can i say Monsoon i really like this build gonna try it out and see how it works. Thank a lot  Hope i dont get too much Roach/Hydra rushed. Thank you. Post some replays later if you don't mind. I am curious to watch the community's take on it. | ||
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AlexXx
United States58 Posts
The Archon opening is extremely strong because all the zerg units are Bio! and Archons do a whopping 35 dmg (i think) + splash! and +1 up is 39! thats almost 2 shot to an unupgraded hydra. I found myself having extra minerals laying around and was able to throw down more gates and expo faster than I usually would while still being able to be aggressive and fend off pushes. My opponent went with the armored roach after seeing Archons and stalkers were just not cutting it so i decided to get sneaky on him and throw up a Dark Shrine and that really won me the game. But the Archon Open was Def solid. This is a 1500+ Diamond player and he is rank 6 in his divison. Great post OP. Thanks for giving Toss another great path to go! ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-156783.jpg) | ||
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Nemesis-Xero
United States5 Posts
Personally I prefer DTs because 90% of the time I have way more minerals than gas so I can easily afford the extra minerals and prefer the slightly reduced gas cost on Dark Templar while still making plenty of zealots. Also because I'm avoiding HTs because everyone uses them.  Hehe... :D | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Archons are versatile vs zerg yes, but IMO still not cost effective. The cost of 1 archon (assuming 2 merged HTs) is about the cost of 3 sentries, and sentries are awesome vs mutaling. | ||
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PangO
Chile1870 Posts
On October 12 2010 01:16 Monsoon wrote: Thank you. Post some replays later if you don't mind. I am curious to watch the community's take on it. Just won 2 games with it lol. I'll post replays as soon as posible. | ||
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CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
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AlexXx
United States58 Posts
You have to do some scouting though with this build because if they have early roach, its good game for sure, Roaches dominate this. | ||
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PraetorHyper
Venezuela12 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151798 (this could answer Skyro's question about this build). It's good to have a clear BO and good replays to check the concept much better. Could be nice to squeeze a Hallucination research somewhere, to scout and know exactly what he's doing and what changes on your composition you should make. I feel like I'm going blind with archons and I don't like being blind =P. | ||
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Monsoon
United States14 Posts
On October 12 2010 02:36 AlexXx wrote: Great post OP. Thanks for giving Toss another great path to go! Thanks for posting that replay Alex. I'm glad you stuck with it after the initial push didn't do much. It works surprisingly well even against that moderate number of roaches. It was once the roaches starting coming out in mass that there were issues. That said, I think every Protoss player is more than happy to play against mass roach. | ||
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Drathmar
United States160 Posts
I do agree Protoss love playing vs mass roach though... 2 immortals (easy to get since they only need robo) supported by pretty much anything and FFing roaches pretty much kill shitloads of them. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Hmm actually, this might be better response vs mutaling, because if you go with phoenix they can be easily countered by corruptors. Since they already went muta they probably also have a leg-up on air upgrades, which would make corruptors even more tricky. Because mutas are so gas heavy they probably don't have very many banelings. But if they do, you'll need the archons to block the banelings, since they don't have the [Light] tag. Hmm it might be best to cut some zealots and channel extra minerals into cannons to help defend your pylon outposts and bases. I'm just thinking that while this build might be great at killing the units, the sheer speed and mobility of both mutas and lings are going to make you really vulnerable vs counterattacks. Perhaps open zealot/phoenix early pressure into zealot/archon/templar. I wouldn't think that roach would be too big a deal vs this combo, because the archons have enough range they can fire from behind zealots, which negates much of the range disadvantage. Burrowed roaches might be a real problem though because they can recharge health much faster than you can recharge shields. In that case you'll obviously need to slam out a robobay just for observers. Maybe you could cover it with offensive cannons but I think they would be a big risk to take. | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
Zealots actually fare very well against Roaches (I think a Zealot actually wins in a 1v1 no upgrades) Zealots tank and deal good damage, Archons sit back, and deal good damage + splash. Doing this build I always favor a very fast +1 weapons, followed by a +2 weapons (You already have the council) getting armor upgrades when going very heavy into Archons simply cuts into your gas, because the Shield is unaffected by armor upgrades. Charge actually really helps against Speed zerglings, as strange as it sounds. It really prevents them from getting a surround, because charge intercepts them before they can do it. Against non-speed zealots, the lings get an instant concave around the zealots, shutting off retreats and dealing maximum damage, but with charge it creates an instant wall, preventing, or atleast slowing down, the surround. Speed zerglings are actually really good against zealots because of numbers and the surround, but if you cut off the surround they fare much better. If you do this build, or a similar one, I would (Atleast against zerg) favor getting 2 HT's out right away, make them an Archon, then research storm and Khaydarin as soon as possible (While excess gas goes into weapons and more templar). Storms burst damage is just so high, and since you're making the High Templar anyways, you may as well do the good old, 1 storm -> Archon. (80 damage vs. Roaches + being whacked at by Zealots and Archons is more effective then you think) Edit: My variation of the build. It's quite vulnerable to baneling busts (imo) and isn't near as polished as it could be, but I get enough stuff to defend, and to win. I get storm, because storm is just so powerful (Theres no reason -not- to get it against zerg or terran, I think vs. Protoss there are better options then HT tech) Yes, my storms lick in this game, and I can't find my cool PvZ where I do some better storms. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-157250.jpg) EditX2: Found the replay, again, mistakes, but goes to show you how getting storm is a huge benefit over an extra archon or two. Also, Zealots and Archons do a crapload of damage at +3 weapons. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-157251.jpg) | ||
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mrfatbush
Australia26 Posts
So in this build matchup it seems like you'd swap out the hydras for roach/infestor into mutas. Dunno about late game though... because you would have range upgrades for roach which doesnt really help ultras.. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
As long as you can get out an archon by the time the roaches reach your ramp you should be able to hold it off with zealots and an archon fine. In other words, going through with the archon would still work on the bigger maps (ie not Blistering or SoW). | ||
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AlexXx
United States58 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-158412.jpg) Apples is a 1500+ (maybe more) diamond and I have NEVER beat him untill i tried this archon play. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I strongly encourage you to put a forge for +1 attack somewhere in the build. +1 attack is so damn important if you are using zealot/archon(/stalker). Zealots 2 shots lings if they don't have 1 armor upgrade. HUGE difference. Archons 1 shot lings if they DO have 1 armor upgrade (they 2 shot them if its 0-0 archons vs 0-1 lings). HUGE difference. (regardless of the zerg upgrades a +1 attack upgrade will make your zealot/archon MUCH more effective against lings) In case you wind up using stalkers against muta's it makes a fairly big difference as well as 0-0 stalkers take 13 shots to kill a muta (because of 1 instant regen from the muta's) whereas 1-0 stalkers take 11 shots exactly killing the muta (121 dmg total accounting for the 1 hp regen). As the build puts up a fast twilight council anyway the forge can be put to good use non-stop as you can immediately follow up with armor or lvl 2 upgrades (I'd go lvl 2 attack if you are up against lings and see +1 armor, otherwise get armor). | ||
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