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TL;DR: Terran Air, like Terran Mech in SC1, is unbeatable at 200/200 3/3. How can Terrans take advantage of this?
Before I start off, I want to say that this thread is for discussion purposes only. There will be no replays posted by me, because I believe although the strategies discussed in this thread may be viable, I don't have the mechanics to pull it off successfully as a low Diamond player.
The Theory
When Beta for SC2 first came out, many people who played Terran tried the Mech strategy, and found that it was not as viable as it was in SC1. This holds true to this day: there is no pure Mech strategy that is viable at Diamond+ level.
What I would like to propose is this: against Protoss and Zerg, Terran Air the the equivalent of SC1's Terran Mech.
Now, you might be asking, "Madcow, you're nuts, how is SC2 Air anything like SC1 Mech?"
The answer is, Terran Air, when properly utilized in SC2, is unbeatable in a head-to-head confrontation by Protoss and Zerg, just like Terran Mech was in SC1. In SC1, a 200/200 3/3 Terran Mech army could only be wittled away by throwing waves of units at it, or by avoiding it completely and instead harassing bases. The same is true of Terran Air in SC2.
Evidence
The reason why SC2 Air is dominate is different from the reason SC1 Mech was dominant. SC1 Mech relied on incredible cost-efficiency with monstrous splash from tanks and mines, huge range from Siege Mode and Charon Booster, and the utility of the Science Vessel to dominate Zerg and Toss.
SC2 Air relies on speed, incredibly high DPS, long AtA range on the Viking, Cloak, and the insanely useful Raven to dominate Protoss and Zerg.
I will illustrate my points with some numbers here:
Speed: This one is obvious. Due to being an entirely air-based army. Terran Air is very mobile and able to strike from any angle, as well as being able to flank from multiple different directions. The speed of Air allows it to dodge Storm and mitigate Fungal Growth very well.
High DPS: The Banshee has some of the highest DPS against ground units of any combat unit in the game. Here are the DPS numbers against ground for all units in every race that do over 10 DPS.
Hydra - 14.45
Ultra - 40.65 to Armored, 17.42 normal
Corrupter - 10.53 to Massive
Marine - 10.45 w/Stim
Marauder - 20 to Armored, 10 normal w/Stim
Reaper - 16.36 to Light
Ghost - 13.33 to Light
Tank - 24.04 to Armored in tank mode, 15 to Armored in Siege Mode
Thor - 23.44
Banshee - 19.2
Battle Cruiser - 35.56
Zealot - 13.33
Dark Templar - 26.56
Immortal - 34.48 to Armored, 13.79 normal
Colossus - 18.18
Archon - 19.95 to Bio, 14.25 normal
Void Ray - 41.67 to Armored charged, 16.67 normal charged
Carrier - 26.67 with 8 Interceptors
Mothership - 16.29
As you can see, Banshee DPS stacks up incredibly well. Add this to the well-known high AtA dps of the Viking, and you can see that Terran Air in SC2 has some of the highest damage of any unit composition in the game.
Long AtA Range: Vikings have the highest AtA range of any unit in the game.
Cloak: Cloak detection for both Zerg and Protoss involve flying units. Vikings are great at destroying flying units, and Ravens can detect Observers. Without detection, Toss and Zerg cannot counter your cloaked Banshees.
Raven Utility: Ravens are one of the best casters in the game, and their greatest spell is the Point Defense Drone. Against Zerg and Protoss, the PDD is effectively Dark Swarm from SC1. Zerg only has Infested Marines that can bypass the laser, and Protoss only have the Sentry, Archon, Void Ray, Carrier, and Mothership, all of which are highly ineffective units to use against an air-heavy army. Seeker Missile is also a good, if situational spell. When used on defense, it can buy you precious time as the opponent is forced to dodge the missile and move his units back. On offense, where retreat is not an option, the Seeker Missile can do heavy damage to groups of low-HP units. In this way, it is a bit like Psi Storm. The Auto-Turret, the weakest Raven ability, is still useful as a way to draw fire in a battle, or as a harassing tool.
Why It's Unstoppable
So, even with all these great points, why is maxed out Terran Air uncounterable for Protoss and Zerg? Well, it's mainly because of the PDD.
As previously mentioned, against Toss and Zerg, the PDD is a Dark Swarm. Sentries, Infested Terrans, Archons, Carriers, Void Rays, and Motherships can get around the PDD, but are overall terrible units against Banshees and Vikings.
Other options from Zerg include:
- Infestor + Hydra/Muta: This option Fungal Growths your Air ball, which conveniently also reveals cloaked Banshees. Unfortunately, smart PDD usage destroys Hydras. The Magic Box combined with multiple-angle flanking also makes it very hard for Infestors to maximize their Fungal Growths.
Other options from Protoss include:
- HT + Sentry + Stalker: Again, Magic Box as well as the mobility and speed of Terran Air can nullify Storm very well. Stalkers are neutralized by PDD, and Sentries aren't cost-efficient enough to fight off Banshees on their own. Smart PDD placement will also make them untouchable by Sentry fire.
- Feedback: This can be nullified by intentinally keeping your Banshee's energy low through Cloaking. In addition, perfect feedback usage on a high population Banshee count is very difficult. Just as Spawn Broodling was not often used because of the APM requirements, Feedback isn't a strong counter to Banshees due to the need for incredible micro.
Weaknesses
Many of the weaknesses of Terran Mech from SC! are also shared by Terran Air in SC2, namely that of proper positioning.
Improper positioning in SC1 got your tanks killed by mine drags, your Goliaths destroyed by Hydras, and your Vultures eaten by Dragoons and Storm.
Improper positioning in SC2 will leave you Fungal Growthed out of range of your PDDs, and killed by Hydras.
One key disadvantage of Terran Air compared to SC1 Mech is that Air is more gas intensive, and the Starport lacks a good mineral sink. As such, you will pool great amounts of excess minerals, which you need to find a way to utilize.
How to Build This Army
Now that we've established that Terran Air is a very powerful, nigh-unstoppable maxed army, how do Terrans take advantage of this?
That is the tricky part. Unlike Mech in SC1, Air in SC2 is not as strong on the defense. Therefore, a transitional early-game may be needed, where you establish a strong econ through other units, like the Siege Tank or Bio, and then switch over to Air once the necessary vespene nodes are secured.
Alternatively, Banshees could be incorporated into a harass-based build in the early-game, and then as additional bases are established, the Terran can transition into full-time Starport unit production.
There are no build orders recommended, simply because I have not discovered a safe way to transition to Air.
In conclusion, please remember that when I say Terran Air is unstoppable in a straight confrontation, I mean late game, where it is maxed army vs. maxed army. Just as Terran Mech in SC1 could by broken before reaching the critical number of Siege Tanks, Air in SC2 can be stopped before the Raven ball reaches the needed numbers.
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Mutas take a dump on vikings, phoenix also beat vikings in larger, equal numbers, surprisingly.
A maxed air army would just have zerg go equal mutas to vikings then auto win against the banshees.
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This sort of reminds me of a thor banshee timing push where banshee are used while thors tank dmg.
just theorycrafting- instead of going 2 fac thors just go 1 fac into banshees/raven after a helion FE that way your air army can make up for your thor lack of mobility.
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Except that 200/200 pheonix would crush this
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I did this throughout beta and stopped once I broke out of gold league because it didn't work. Not to just discount the post and say it doesn't work without anything to back it up(like the poster above me), but you need to provide replays. No matter how long and well thought out the post is its nothing but guesswork unless you give us replays, good or bad, of the strat being used.
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On October 08 2010 16:44 klauz619 wrote:
Mutas take a dump on vikings, phoenix also beat vikings in larger, equal numbers, surprisingly.
A maxed air army would just have zerg go equal mutas to vikings then auto win against the banshees.
Mutas are also made mostly useless by the Raven support. Clumped Mutas will get raped by a couple nicely timed Hunter-Seekers, and PDD will neutralize their first few volleys, giving Vikings somewhat of an advantage.
Don't forget that air also encompasses Cattlebruisers. If anyone wants to take those down, Mutas and Phoenixes won't cut it. Battlecruiser counters are usually countered by Vikings and PDD.
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On October 08 2010 16:44 klauz619 wrote:
Mutas take a dump on vikings, phoenix also beat vikings in larger, equal numbers, surprisingly.
A maxed air army would just have zerg go equal mutas to vikings then auto win against the banshees.
PDD.
Without the Raven, Terran Air would not be viable.
With the Raven, Terran Air becomes nearly unstoppable, due to the SC2 Dark Swarm, the PDD.
On October 08 2010 17:18 unaliased wrote:
Except that 200/200 pheonix would crush this
PDD again.
Also, any competent SC player knows that you need to scout your opponent's army composition in order to adjust your own.
That's like saying SC1 Mech 200/200 Tank/Goliath/Vulture/Vessel Combination gets hard countered by 200/200 Guardians.
If you see your Protoss opponent having an overwhelming majority of his army as Pheonix, you adjust your army to have a large percentage of Vikings.
On October 08 2010 17:23 Gono wrote:
I did this throughout beta and stopped once I broke out of gold league because it didn't work. Not to just discount the post and say it doesn't work without anything to back it up(like the poster above me), but you need to provide replays. No matter how long and well thought out the post is its nothing but guesswork unless you give us replays, good or bad, of the strat being used.
Like I said, I haven't figured out a safe transition to mass air, nor do I have the mechanics to pull off early Banshee harass while keeping up the strong macro needed to establish the expansions and gas needed to start pumping Vikings/Ravens/Banshees at the same time.
I don't know whether Terrans should be turtling early with Tanks + Bio, then transitioning to air once the natural is established, or whether to go with a harassing-based build with Banshees, then establish the natural, then transition into full air.
This strategy is only at the very rudimentary stages of exploration. It's like how Zerg was before Savior and his peers discovered the possibilities of Hive and Defiler play. After they discovered how good Defilers were, they then needed to hone their BOs in order to safely reach Hive.
On October 08 2010 17:36 Tropical Bob wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 16:44 klauz619 wrote:
Mutas take a dump on vikings, phoenix also beat vikings in larger, equal numbers, surprisingly.
A maxed air army would just have zerg go equal mutas to vikings then auto win against the banshees. Mutas are also made mostly useless by the Raven support. Clumped Mutas will get raped by a couple nicely timed Hunter-Seekers, and PDD will neutralize their first few volleys, giving Vikings somewhat of an advantage. Don't forget that air also encompasses Cattlebruisers. If anyone wants to take those down, Mutas and Phoenixes won't cut it. Battlecruiser counters are usually countered by Vikings and PDD.
Also, in large engagements, the Seeker Missile becomes surprisingly useful, even when on the defensive.
The Seeker Missile allows Terran to abuse the Viking's huge range compared to other air units: When engaging, fire off a few Seekers. The enemy will either be forced to move his units back, all the while taking shots from 9-range Vikings, or simply eat the Missile. There are very few players in the world who can immediately move back the exact unit being targeted by the Seeker Missile in a 200/200 fight; most people will select a clump of units that look like they're getting targetted, move them all back, then manually split until they find the correct unit.
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keep in mind: feedback can be used on PDD's themselves to completely nullify them.
I think stalker + templar + archon would be a viable response to an all air terran army. feedback spam on ravens, PDDs, and banshees, merge to archons for additional tanking and ground-to-air.
Large period of vulnerability before you have critical number of banshees to defend a ground push too.
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On October 08 2010 17:55 susySquark wrote:
keep in mind: feedback can be used on PDD's themselves to completely nullify them.
Don't think that works anymore.
Void rays anyone? Enough pheonix to tank a few shots while they charge up and speed rays destroy all air. It's not even close.
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can't vikings kite void rays....?
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Some problems:
1) Every Terran air unit is incredibly gas-heavy. Making a 200/200 army of pure air is nearly impossible and requires 4-5 gas-saturated bases to sustain production. I don't see how this would be viable.
2) I disagree about HTs. How does feedback take a lot of micro? All you do is hold the button and spam-click. Also, I don't think magic boxing would be enough to stop storms. Terran air is slower than mutas so you're going to be taking a lot more damage before you can move out of storm radius.
3) I am still skeptical that you could beat 200/200 mutas with a reasonable composition (i.e. not 10% ravens and 90% vikings). They can catch your air out of position and force you to waste PDDs.
I like the effort put into the post and it gives me a lot to think about but I see some problems. I'd love to see some of this in action.
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On October 08 2010 18:14 Bill Murray wrote:
can't vikings kite void rays....?
2.25 (3.375 with Flux Vanes)
2.75 (air)
Yes before speed upgrade.
Phoenix are pretty good AA anyway
SC2 air units are overall stronger than SC1 counter parts, Terran, Zerg or Protoss.
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On October 08 2010 18:09 Zeroes wrote:
feedback works on PDD
not anymore
also hunter seeker pretty much dominates any ata counter. still ground spell casters like the ht or the infestor do well against terran air.
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Hey i just wrote a big post on something like this. The problem is that you require 3 base gas to get enough ravens, banshees, vikings, bcs, or whatever combo of air units you get. Having to protect that much area is a pain in the ass if you are straight teching for air.
I could see air being extremely good against zerg. BCs melt hydras, PDD covers from any zerg ATA or ATS zerg can throw at you, and even with PDD covering you can just yamato the expensive corrupters. I could see a hellion into banshee harass opening being transitioned into an air heavy lategame. You just need to secure your expansions. Other than that, 5-6 fully upgraded BCs + 4 or so Ravens is entirely unstoppable. PDD removes any threat, and yamato takes out the rest. Getting there is the problem 
The only threat this runs into is high templar. Feedback destroys ravens, banshees, and BCs. Ether use your energy before the high temps come, or try and focus down whatever force the protoss sends to finish your Feedbacked units.
I
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It seems like this would be about as hard to build as a mostly battlecruiser army, with supporting vikings and ravens. Doesn't seem viable at all, since the chance to max out 200+3/3 would be nearly impossible without forcing a map cutoff with tanks in TvT, and even then you'd probably want to opt for the BCs instead.
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Also, any competent SC player knows that you need to scout your opponent's army composition in order to adjust your own.
That's like saying SC1 Mech 200/200 Tank/Goliath/Vulture/Vessel Combination gets hard countered by 200/200 Guardians.
If you see your Protoss opponent having an overwhelming majority of his army as Pheonix, you adjust your army to have a large percentage of Vikings.
Any competent SC player knows that you need to scout your opponent's army composition in order to adjust your own.
That's like saying SC1 Mech 200/200 Tank/Goliath/Vulture/Vessel Combination gets hard countered by 200/200 Guardians.
If you see your terran opponent having an overwhelming majority of his army as viking, adjust your army to have a large percentage of stalkers.
This game is not about the best unit combinations,
it's about transitions, it's about if ur build is good to transition into a counter.
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On October 08 2010 18:19 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 18:14 Bill Murray wrote:
can't vikings kite void rays....? 2.25 (3.375 with Flux Vanes) 2.75 (air) Yes before speed upgrade. Phoenix are pretty good AA anyway SC2 air units are overall stronger than SC1 counter parts, Terran, Zerg or Protoss.
zerg air is significantly weaker. Protoss is questionable, the suckage of carriers imo makes it weaker.
void rays are far too squishy.
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Don't want to shit on your parade, but feedback works on both PDD's and ravens. Also by the time you have 200/200 3/3 air, you're probably in your bed dreaming about it right after you got rolled by any 1 base play.
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It's all about the transition I think, like the OP said. In theory it's pretty effective and I sometimes opt for BCs + misc air support if the game runs on very long, but it's hard to find the opportunity to transition into it and it's not really something you can definitively plan for from the start of the game. 60-70% of the time I have the opportunity to end the game far earlier with a well timed push to press my advantage. As far as the unit composition goes though, it's reasonably effective and something to keep in mind for very long games I suppose.
Personally, against protoss, BCs alone on top of your regular army will usually suffice due to their lack of good answers to it other than void rays (which get one shotted by yamato cannon).
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EPT
