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On December 12 2012 08:07 Mavvie wrote:Not sure if it's the patch or something, but I am finding myself unable to win ZvP lategame. Fungals never land, IT die before they spawn, and vortex is stronger than ever. Of course I know the problem's on my end, so I'd like to ask for some advice on this replay: http://drop.sc/283680 I'm aware of my macro shortcomings and all the mistakes I made in the midgame (late spire too bleh), but I attempted to use the HyuN style and it worked extremely well. I got on 5 bases with 80+ drones and a reasonable hive timing, with a shitload of infestors while being aggressive and trading very efficiently. Then as I make my first blord/infestor push he has mothership so I back off + get corruptors and overseers. I get my shit archon toileted, lol I'm bad. My opponent is too when he runs home from my ling-rally counterattack, so I don't die I just lose one base (I'm still up 5 to 4 after his push). I remax on broodfestor, get a neural and vortex HIS army, and still lose lol. Not enough broodlords? Not enough infestors? Better fungals/more IT? I don't even know...I guess I had too many drones? It was so one-sided I don't know what I should've done better. Excuse the "What a joke" at the end, I felt it a little obnoxious that the oh so "overpowered" broodlord infestor should die twice to a mostly stalker army  It's all good though I normally have a positive attitude on things.
Watched your rep; I'm sure you'll take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'll give it a shot anyway =P
First of all you engaged really well multiple times in killing his 3rd. There were times were you were max'd and he was at 100 supply. At this point instead of waiting for BL's and flipping the vortex coin, I'd probably just go and fucking kill him (which I'm sure you could have done by a-moving up his ramp).
Regardless, you did get your "OP" army. That first vortex was the turning point, but even then I felt like the game was relatively even if you had engaged well. I think the main issue in your engagements was the IT lob into the vortex. Whenever I do this, it never ends well for me. I've seen pros do it but I don't understand the concepts behind it. I think it's better to save your energy for fungal to prevent blink and IT's outside the vortex. When you do spam IT's, with the egg reduced health I think we kind of have to spread them out now too =/
Other than that, I felt like your BL/corruptor remax could have been slightly faster; also vs this kind of army, having more BL's would be good (it didn't help that you lost them all in that first vortex). Anyway, hope that helps.
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On December 12 2012 11:56 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:07 Mavvie wrote:Not sure if it's the patch or something, but I am finding myself unable to win ZvP lategame. Fungals never land, IT die before they spawn, and vortex is stronger than ever. Of course I know the problem's on my end, so I'd like to ask for some advice on this replay: http://drop.sc/283680 I'm aware of my macro shortcomings and all the mistakes I made in the midgame (late spire too bleh), but I attempted to use the HyuN style and it worked extremely well. I got on 5 bases with 80+ drones and a reasonable hive timing, with a shitload of infestors while being aggressive and trading very efficiently. Then as I make my first blord/infestor push he has mothership so I back off + get corruptors and overseers. I get my shit archon toileted, lol I'm bad. My opponent is too when he runs home from my ling-rally counterattack, so I don't die I just lose one base (I'm still up 5 to 4 after his push). I remax on broodfestor, get a neural and vortex HIS army, and still lose lol. Not enough broodlords? Not enough infestors? Better fungals/more IT? I don't even know...I guess I had too many drones? It was so one-sided I don't know what I should've done better. Excuse the "What a joke" at the end, I felt it a little obnoxious that the oh so "overpowered" broodlord infestor should die twice to a mostly stalker army It's all good though I normally have a positive attitude on things. Watched your rep; I'm sure you'll take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'll give it a shot anyway =P First of all you engaged really well multiple times in killing his 3rd. There were times were you were max'd and he was at 100 supply. At this point instead of waiting for BL's and flipping the vortex coin, I'd probably just go and fucking kill him (which I'm sure you could have done by a-moving up his ramp). Regardless, you did get your "OP" army. That first vortex was the turning point, but even then I felt like the game was relatively even if you had engaged well. I think the main issue in your engagements was the IT lob into the vortex. Whenever I do this, it never ends well for me. I've seen pros do it but I don't understand the concepts behind it. I think it's better to save your energy for fungal to prevent blink and IT's outside the vortex. When you do spam IT's, with the egg reduced health I think we kind of have to spread them out now too =/ Other than that, I felt like your BL/corruptor remax could have been slightly faster; also vs this kind of army, having more BL's would be good (it didn't help that you lost them all in that first vortex). Anyway, hope that helps.
Haha, thanks for the reply! Yeah I kind of walked over him in the midgame, but figured when ahead get more ahead, and try to win at hive etc etc to avoid relying on my opponent being bad. Didn't quite realize I had a 100 supply lead though Thought he was at least half decent. The units I made were an accident BTW, I thought he was still on 2 bases and was super confused. Then I saw a finished third "oops", so yeah he died to a bit of roach/ling pressure lmao.
Hmm, I'll try that out! I'm halfway convinced that taking it to lategame is a bad idea considering that everyone has troubles with engaging Protoss deathballs, even without worrying about vortex. Roach/ling/infestor 4 base all in anyone? :D
I guess we have to spread eggs out. Meh, went into a unit tester for an hour and literally couldn't make a Zerg army composition that could beat Protoss amove + storm xD Literally tried every unit composition and they all fell to colo/stalker/archon/HT amove/storm. Oh well, I guess I should go for stronger midgame plays then one ditch effort of an ultra/bane max before he has enough HT.
Edit: I delayed the remax beacuse I thought I was dead
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On December 12 2012 11:43 Ancamdrew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:15 carlaz wrote:Would anyone be kind enough to look through my replays and tell me where i am going wrong. I am stuck in bronze though i have tried hard to get out of the pit. I think i am doing some of the basics right, i am starting to scout more and in a better way. I hit most injects and have a decent army. If someone can put a few pointers out i would be very happy. Sometimes i get matched with high silver and gold players and get stomped on so i know i have some way to go. http://drop.sc/283684http://drop.sc/283683http://drop.sc/283682http://drop.sc/283681 I'm currently going over your replays, Hit me up in game if you want to talk otherwise I'll just post a response on this thread. Justify.453
@Carlaz
In your first replay, you simply used the wrong combination of units. Roaches are pretty bad against bio play, especially when he mixes in marauders, which directly counter your roaches, and hydras are just generally bad against terran, and in most cases protoss as well.
In your second game you did a good job spotting the all in and preparing for it, but when it came to the engagement you handles it pretty poorly. first off you want have a set of lings looking for proxy pylons if you know an all in is coming. It also can be a good idea to hide a pack in your opponents 3rd and attack shortly after he moves out, as he will be generally defenseless. When the attack finally game, you ran your units down your ramp to attack, but your spine crawlers weren't even in range to attack anything. let them come up the ramp, it gives you a larger concave and more surface area, as well as an enormous amount of help from your spine crawlers.
In the last 2 games you used a roach-baneling all in... which in most cases is used against terrans rather than protoss. the first one succeeded because of lack of force field control or immortals, and you failed the second one due to a large wall, lots of immortals, and lack of ling speed. In general your baneling control is pretty bad, you need to make sure you let them get their connections, lead with them if you have too, your roaches and zerglings are getting in the way and the banelings aren't getting a chance to hit anything.
Some other general pointers are to keep focusing on your mechanics, such as scouting, injects, and making sure your mineral lines have proper amounts of drones. Against protoss, if you see them fast expanding, its a good idea to take a faster 3rd base as well. Also, don't drone scout so early, if you are going to drone scout at least wait for around 10 supply, however I often wait til 13, or in some match ups and some maps don't drone scout at all.
I will say you have pretty good mechanics for a bronze player, and you get the concept of macro. Use macro to your favor, win games in the later stages by flooding them with units because you have superior macro. Also, again, if you want to talk more, or would like so coaching, I'd love to have a sort of trainee, My ID is Justify with character code 453, hit me up if interested. Good luck in your future games!
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On December 12 2012 12:09 Ancamdrew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 11:43 Ancamdrew wrote:On December 12 2012 08:15 carlaz wrote:Would anyone be kind enough to look through my replays and tell me where i am going wrong. I am stuck in bronze though i have tried hard to get out of the pit. I think i am doing some of the basics right, i am starting to scout more and in a better way. I hit most injects and have a decent army. If someone can put a few pointers out i would be very happy. Sometimes i get matched with high silver and gold players and get stomped on so i know i have some way to go. http://drop.sc/283684http://drop.sc/283683http://drop.sc/283682http://drop.sc/283681 I'm currently going over your replays, Hit me up in game if you want to talk otherwise I'll just post a response on this thread. Justify.453 @Carlaz Snip
Thank you for taking the time to go through those replays. I knew there were glaring errors in my play but i didnt have the first idea of where to go with it. My main question is about banelings, i knew in that one game they were inefficient and it was only luck that got me the kills. I am always worried about guard towers sniping them, should i be worried or is it acceptable to lose a few on the way in?
I am hoping that I can quickly escape bronze as i feel a sort of mental drain with the inconsistent level of play e.g. 1 game is against a complete new comer and the next is against a player who really knows the game. I will contact you in game tomorrow as i have a busy afternoon+evening incoming.
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What do I do midgame vs mech? I got a sick economy, 5 bases, 90 drones and my hive was building. I made a spire for my greater spire etc. etc. I have 2/2 upgrades, mass roach
So I have all this larva and he decides to move out and attack me. Seeing his siege tank/thor/tiny amount of hellions coming for my 5th, I counter attack his third, natural and I try to deny his fourth.
Well none of that works out. He has a planetary fortress at his fourth and an extra planetary at his third with 2 siege tanks defending. Knowing that I can't attack into that, I turn around and go for his army.
His army WRECKS mine. I even caught him unsieged. He goes down to 170 supply and I lose my whole army. I try remaxing, but it doesn't work. I remax again, it doesn't work. All this time, my greater spire was like 50% done.
I guess my question is: How can I safely get into the late game composition vs mech? Should I invest in roach drops as an extra counter attack potential? Infestors? I don't know.
Hopefully you guys don't need a replay, this is a very generalized question.
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On December 12 2012 23:51 FeyverN wrote:
What do I do midgame vs mech? I got a sick economy, 5 bases, 90 drones and my hive was building. I made a spire for my greater spire etc. etc. I have 2/2 upgrades, mass roach
So I have all this larva and he decides to move out and attack me. Seeing his siege tank/thor/tiny amount of hellions coming for my 5th, I counter attack his third, natural and I try to deny his fourth.
Well none of that works out. He has a planetary fortress at his fourth and an extra planetary at his third with 2 siege tanks defending. Knowing that I can't attack into that, I turn around and go for his army.
His army WRECKS mine. I even caught him unsieged. He goes down to 170 supply and I lose my whole army. I try remaxing, but it doesn't work. I remax again, it doesn't work. All this time, my greater spire was like 50% done.
I guess my question is: How can I safely get into the late game composition vs mech? Should I invest in roach drops as an extra counter attack potential? Infestors? I don't know.
Hopefully you guys don't need a replay, this is a very generalized question.
Personally I like going for drops vs mech. They don't work as well on every map, but they can be great. When he moves out, or is about to, mass roach drop his main, and when he pulls all his units (They almost always do that) Send a pack of lings into his third. (Ofcourse - do this before he has planetaries everywhere). Target tech labs, even factories if you have enough roaches, and trade with his army. Be sure to drop creep with your overlords, which will mean he can't rebuild his tech labs or land his factories. If you feel like you can trade well; go for it. If you don't; perhaps you could try escaping with your overlords again. During this, your lings should have done quite some damage and you've bought a lot of time to get up to hive tech.
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Hi all,
Very quick question -
In ZvT I'm opening 2 base lair with 4 queens (two out, two injecting), and a partial 2xevo plus spine wall at the natural. Now, because I'm not looking to go for a quick third, rather to just get my tech out safely, my third comes at about 10.30 as my lair units are coming out, as only then do I feel safe to expand. IS THIS OK????
I feel like if I didn't macro hatch (currently doing it when lair finishes after dropping 4 extractors at 45ish supply), and instead get the third at that timing, I wouldn't be able to hold the third against banshee/hellion with just the two queens plus lings?
Such a standard and weird question and I know there must be a way to hold but if I send the queens over whilst sneaking a drone out, the 6 to 8 hellions run into my nat and exchange themselves for all my drones! And of course round of lings I make between 7:15 and 8:00 just do nothing to the hellions and speed isn't read yet!
Argh?
Best
Stardroid
Space
Edit: bad grammar!
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On December 13 2012 05:02 Stardroid wrote:
Hi all,
Very quick question -
In ZvT I'm opening 2 base lair with 4 queens (two out, two injecting), and a partial 2xevo plus spine wall at the natural. Now, because I'm not looking to go for a quick third, rather to just get my tech out safely, my third comes at about 10.30 as my lair units are coming out, as only then do I feel safe to expand. IS THIS OK????
I feel like if I didn't macro hatch (currently doing it when lair finishes after dropping 4 extractors at 45ish supply), and instead get the third at that timing, I wouldn't be able to hold the third against banshee/hellion with just the two queens plus lings?
Such a standard and weird question and I know there must be a way to hold but if I send the queens over whilst sneaking a drone out, the 6 to 8 hellions run into my nat and exchange themselves for all my drones! And of course round of lings I make between 7:15 and 8:00 just do nothing to the hellions and speed isn't read yet!
Argh?
Best
Stardroid
Space
Edit: bad grammar!
I'm quite confused by your wording so please correct me if my response is completely off.
You're going 2 base lair so like really fast tech with a 10:30 third? That's extremely late and I really wouldn't recommend it.
Its pretty normal to get a 5-6 minute third base in ZvT nowadays and they still get 2 evos and plenty of gas.
If you ARE going to go for a 2 base build, it should include a macro hatch and a very dangerous aggressive push that you can safely expand behind. If you don't have all those pieces, you leave yourself very open to attack when you move out, or you'll simply be behind if you just expand and don't attack with anything.
10:30 is actually so late, T will probably have his third up before you. This means not just landed, but with a rax wall and bunkers/turrets too.
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On December 13 2012 05:02 Stardroid wrote:
Hi all,
Very quick question -
In ZvT I'm opening 2 base lair with 4 queens (two out, two injecting), and a partial 2xevo plus spine wall at the natural. Now, because I'm not looking to go for a quick third, rather to just get my tech out safely, my third comes at about 10.30 as my lair units are coming out, as only then do I feel safe to expand. IS THIS OK????
I feel like if I didn't macro hatch (currently doing it when lair finishes after dropping 4 extractors at 45ish supply), and instead get the third at that timing, I wouldn't be able to hold the third against banshee/hellion with just the two queens plus lings?
Such a standard and weird question and I know there must be a way to hold but if I send the queens over whilst sneaking a drone out, the 6 to 8 hellions run into my nat and exchange themselves for all my drones! And of course round of lings I make between 7:15 and 8:00 just do nothing to the hellions and speed isn't read yet!
Argh?
Best
Stardroid
Space
Edit: bad grammar!
I agree with what crooked said, but let me just add something.
If you don't feel comfortable taking a fast third vs Terran (you should practice it at some point, but for now) you can go two base infestors. Banshee hellion is so easily defended on 2 bases it's ridiculous. Just make 2 evo as a wall, a spine and get your queens (only 2 needed most likely) in position. You get a macro hatch, otherwise you just float minerals which is really bad this early in the game... Defend the first aggression, then expand and take map control. If the Terran is greedy, you should try to be active with your first infestors, like Life usually does.
Gl hf ~
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On December 13 2012 06:19 crbox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 05:02 Stardroid wrote:
Hi all,
Very quick question -
In ZvT I'm opening 2 base lair with 4 queens (two out, two injecting), and a partial 2xevo plus spine wall at the natural. Now, because I'm not looking to go for a quick third, rather to just get my tech out safely, my third comes at about 10.30 as my lair units are coming out, as only then do I feel safe to expand. IS THIS OK????
I feel like if I didn't macro hatch (currently doing it when lair finishes after dropping 4 extractors at 45ish supply), and instead get the third at that timing, I wouldn't be able to hold the third against banshee/hellion with just the two queens plus lings?
Such a standard and weird question and I know there must be a way to hold but if I send the queens over whilst sneaking a drone out, the 6 to 8 hellions run into my nat and exchange themselves for all my drones! And of course round of lings I make between 7:15 and 8:00 just do nothing to the hellions and speed isn't read yet!
Argh?
Best
Stardroid
Space
Edit: bad grammar! I agree with what crooked said, but let me just add something. If you don't feel comfortable taking a fast third vs Terran (you should practice it at some point, but for now) you can go two base infestors. Banshee hellion is so easily defended on 2 bases it's ridiculous. Just make 2 evo as a wall, a spine and get your queens (only 2 needed most likely) in position. You get a macro hatch, otherwise you just float minerals which is really bad this early in the game... Defend the first aggression, then expand and take map control. If the Terran is greedy, you should try to be active with your first infestors, like Life usually does. Gl hf ~
Well, currently, the meta game is NOT to get 3 fast bases. It's to get up the fast gas and gas tech to put pressure onto your terran opponent and make sure that some pressure/all in builds don't run you over (korean meta game).
However, having a 3 base gasless build in your arsanol is a good thing to have
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Hi sCCrooked, crbox, Glon, thanks for your help it's certainly helping me accept my own experience, which has been either
1) able to attack or crush pressure for a stable game (or a win if they're THAT bad)
2) getting so utterly rolled it isn't funny
1) is hard to get worried about, but 2) REALLY sucks.
So the meta is to get 3 gasless bases, or with gas, with the 3rd at 5-6 minutes, or it's a 2 base gas into 3 base somewhat quicker than I'm doing? I'm really confused! When I see pro games I tend to just see Zergs doing their own thing or taking 3 gases or whatever, I just get the sense that they have a 'build to win' strategy rather than a 'I do this every game' strategy?
Some more clarification would be good, but given that a 10.30 third would be out of the question (thank God), when should I take it? Is 4 queen double evo spine really going to hold an 8min 3rd?
Best
Stardroid
Space
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I suck with the control of broodlord/corruptor/infestor poss queen/ultra deathball against pretty much all T. What control groups should i be using and what is my goal when facing their Viking /tank +ground army. (my current method is to generally tank with infesters  (
By that i mean assuming he isn't playing stupid and either attacks with everything or tries to viking snipe my blord and bait my ground under the tanks.
Should i unloading blords then pulling back hoping to fungle vikings?
a move whole whole army and concentrate on fungle anti air?
keeping some IT's in the no mans land between the armies?
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On December 13 2012 00:00 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 23:51 FeyverN wrote:
What do I do midgame vs mech? I got a sick economy, 5 bases, 90 drones and my hive was building. I made a spire for my greater spire etc. etc. I have 2/2 upgrades, mass roach
So I have all this larva and he decides to move out and attack me. Seeing his siege tank/thor/tiny amount of hellions coming for my 5th, I counter attack his third, natural and I try to deny his fourth.
Well none of that works out. He has a planetary fortress at his fourth and an extra planetary at his third with 2 siege tanks defending. Knowing that I can't attack into that, I turn around and go for his army.
His army WRECKS mine. I even caught him unsieged. He goes down to 170 supply and I lose my whole army. I try remaxing, but it doesn't work. I remax again, it doesn't work. All this time, my greater spire was like 50% done.
I guess my question is: How can I safely get into the late game composition vs mech? Should I invest in roach drops as an extra counter attack potential? Infestors? I don't know.
Hopefully you guys don't need a replay, this is a very generalized question. Personally I like going for drops vs mech. They don't work as well on every map, but they can be great. When he moves out, or is about to, mass roach drop his main, and when he pulls all his units (They almost always do that) Send a pack of lings into his third. (Ofcourse - do this before he has planetaries everywhere). Target tech labs, even factories if you have enough roaches, and trade with his army. Be sure to drop creep with your overlords, which will mean he can't rebuild his tech labs or land his factories. If you feel like you can trade well; go for it. If you don't; perhaps you could try escaping with your overlords again. During this, your lings should have done quite some damage and you've bought a lot of time to get up to hive tech.
What if he mixes in some banshees? I see terrans do this more and more often.
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On December 13 2012 09:33 FeyverN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 00:00 Henk wrote:On December 12 2012 23:51 FeyverN wrote:
What do I do midgame vs mech? I got a sick economy, 5 bases, 90 drones and my hive was building. I made a spire for my greater spire etc. etc. I have 2/2 upgrades, mass roach
So I have all this larva and he decides to move out and attack me. Seeing his siege tank/thor/tiny amount of hellions coming for my 5th, I counter attack his third, natural and I try to deny his fourth.
Well none of that works out. He has a planetary fortress at his fourth and an extra planetary at his third with 2 siege tanks defending. Knowing that I can't attack into that, I turn around and go for his army.
His army WRECKS mine. I even caught him unsieged. He goes down to 170 supply and I lose my whole army. I try remaxing, but it doesn't work. I remax again, it doesn't work. All this time, my greater spire was like 50% done.
I guess my question is: How can I safely get into the late game composition vs mech? Should I invest in roach drops as an extra counter attack potential? Infestors? I don't know.
Hopefully you guys don't need a replay, this is a very generalized question. Personally I like going for drops vs mech. They don't work as well on every map, but they can be great. When he moves out, or is about to, mass roach drop his main, and when he pulls all his units (They almost always do that) Send a pack of lings into his third. (Ofcourse - do this before he has planetaries everywhere). Target tech labs, even factories if you have enough roaches, and trade with his army. Be sure to drop creep with your overlords, which will mean he can't rebuild his tech labs or land his factories. If you feel like you can trade well; go for it. If you don't; perhaps you could try escaping with your overlords again. During this, your lings should have done quite some damage and you've bought a lot of time to get up to hive tech. What if he mixes in some banshees? I see terrans do this more and more often.
How many is "some?" I typically just ignore banshees if it's 1 or 2; it's not enough to stop a large roach/ling army.
You can also drop your queens for AA =P
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On December 13 2012 09:47 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 09:33 FeyverN wrote:On December 13 2012 00:00 Henk wrote:On December 12 2012 23:51 FeyverN wrote:
What do I do midgame vs mech? I got a sick economy, 5 bases, 90 drones and my hive was building. I made a spire for my greater spire etc. etc. I have 2/2 upgrades, mass roach
So I have all this larva and he decides to move out and attack me. Seeing his siege tank/thor/tiny amount of hellions coming for my 5th, I counter attack his third, natural and I try to deny his fourth.
Well none of that works out. He has a planetary fortress at his fourth and an extra planetary at his third with 2 siege tanks defending. Knowing that I can't attack into that, I turn around and go for his army.
His army WRECKS mine. I even caught him unsieged. He goes down to 170 supply and I lose my whole army. I try remaxing, but it doesn't work. I remax again, it doesn't work. All this time, my greater spire was like 50% done.
I guess my question is: How can I safely get into the late game composition vs mech? Should I invest in roach drops as an extra counter attack potential? Infestors? I don't know.
Hopefully you guys don't need a replay, this is a very generalized question. Personally I like going for drops vs mech. They don't work as well on every map, but they can be great. When he moves out, or is about to, mass roach drop his main, and when he pulls all his units (They almost always do that) Send a pack of lings into his third. (Ofcourse - do this before he has planetaries everywhere). Target tech labs, even factories if you have enough roaches, and trade with his army. Be sure to drop creep with your overlords, which will mean he can't rebuild his tech labs or land his factories. If you feel like you can trade well; go for it. If you don't; perhaps you could try escaping with your overlords again. During this, your lings should have done quite some damage and you've bought a lot of time to get up to hive tech. What if he mixes in some banshees? I see terrans do this more and more often. How many is "some?" I typically just ignore banshees if it's 1 or 2; it's not enough to stop a large roach/ling army. You can also drop your queens for AA =P
around 6.
But hey, that sounds like a pretty good idea haha
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On December 13 2012 06:36 Stardroid wrote:
Hi sCCrooked, crbox, Glon, thanks for your help it's certainly helping me accept my own experience, which has been either
1) able to attack or crush pressure for a stable game (or a win if they're THAT bad)
2) getting so utterly rolled it isn't funny
1) is hard to get worried about, but 2) REALLY sucks.
So the meta is to get 3 gasless bases, or with gas, with the 3rd at 5-6 minutes, or it's a 2 base gas into 3 base somewhat quicker than I'm doing? I'm really confused! When I see pro games I tend to just see Zergs doing their own thing or taking 3 gases or whatever, I just get the sense that they have a 'build to win' strategy rather than a 'I do this every game' strategy?
Some more clarification would be good, but given that a 10.30 third would be out of the question (thank God), when should I take it? Is 4 queen double evo spine really going to hold an 8min 3rd?
Best
Stardroid
Space
Ok so, to be safe, I would suggest taking gas off of 2 bases and taking your third a bit later (teching up first). Take a gas immediantly after your first 2 queens pop (you'll still be building 4 initially). Get speed first, and here's where things differ: If you want to go for infestor play, throw up 3 more gasses as your drone count goes up (you want to always have 16 drones on each mineral patch for saturation, so only take gasses when you have 22 drones on your natural, ect) and get 2 evolution chambers. After starting 1/1 research, tech to lair and then infestation pit (taking a third when you have the $$, usually shortly after starting lair).
--If you want to go for mutas:
At 100 gas, get speed. Next 100 gas, tech lair. When you start lair, get 3 more gasses (so you have all 4). When lair pops, get spire (in safe position) and take third.
When I write guides it will be a lot more clear I think, but hope this helped
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Three questions. One for each matchup.
What kind of timing should I be getting my hive at in ZvT with a fast hive style, assuming ideal conditions? If the timing is reactionary, what am I reacting to?
What kind of timing should I be getting my hive at in ZvP with a turtle hive style, assuming ideal conditions? If the timing is reactionary, what am I reacting to?
What's a rough build order for a Roach/Infestor combination in ZvZ?
I tend to play a very long mid-game style in ZvT/ZvP, not by choice, but simply because I'm afraid of taking the game to BL/Infestor territory, since I'm so bad with it. But I've decided it's time to learn to do it, and the first step is to learn the macro benchmarks for teching. I've heard ZvP turtle hive gets a hive at like, 11-12 minutes or something, and that's ridiculously faster than I've ever considered trying for, so clearly I have a lot to learn about the fast hive styles.
I also play Roach into a +2/+2 Roach/Hydra push in ZvZ, since I'm awful with Infestors, but it's time to fix that too. If I want to get to Masters someday, I need to learn to play properly.
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Simple question. Am i the only one who cant seems to win any lategame in ZvT Mech and ZvP ? Since infestor nerf, i just loose everytime, eggs are not able to spawn, my army is getting wrecked... I even loose a BL/Infestor/roach army just with stalkers blinking under my BL.
So, did this patch change your lategame too ? Have you find any solution yet ?
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On December 13 2012 23:59 Insoleet wrote:
Simple question. Am i the only one who cant seems to win any lategame in ZvT Mech and ZvP ? Since infestor nerf, i just loose everytime, eggs are not able to spawn, my army is getting wrecked... I even loose a BL/Infestor/roach army just with stalkers blinking under my BL.
So, did this patch change your lategame too ? Have you find any solution yet ?
Still easy for me.
Z lategame is a free win.
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EPT
