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![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/fly3wy.jpg)
Yeah, feels good to wreck some economy.
I currently been using mutalisks in all of my match-ups. Mutalisk/Bane/Zergling vs Terran, Mutalisk/Zergling versus Protoss. I use the same identical Build order vs both Terran and Protoss.
Basically, i start out as:
14 - Extractor
14 - Spawning Pool
15 - Overlord
16 - Metabolic Boost, then take 2 drones off gas.
16 - Queen
18 - 4-6 Zerglings
20/21 - Expand
*2nd Queen after expansion goes down.
*Power drones accordingly and add a few spine crawlers as needed.
*Once i get enough gas for my lair, i put back both drones to fully saturate the one geyser, and get geysers 2 and 3 and saturate them. While my lair and spire is morphing, i still power as much drones as possible and will add some zerglings and/or banelings(If I'm VS Terran) while powering drones to help with my mutalisks for any timing attacks.
*Order in which i get my upgrades: - Air Attack 1 (When started, Add 2 evolution chambers for group attack and defense)
Air Attack 2
Air Attack 3 or Air Defense
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VS PROTOSS
Stargate Opener - Get hydralisk den instead of spire and then get the spire once phoenix threat is out.
4 Gate - Get 3-4 Spine crawlers with zerglings. Try sniping unguarded probe/proxy pylons to prevent warp-ins near your base.
Robo opening - Proceed with regular build.
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VS TERRAN
*When barracks is finished, i continuously create and cancel an extractor to delay any strong gas heavy builds.
*If i see heavy infantry push, i delay lair to get my baneling nest.
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Replays:
Desert Oasis ZvP 2 Base Mutalisk Vs. 2 Stargate Proxy
So, I need a solid BO to use this strategy effectively. My opener is 14 gas 14 pool but after all that, i just freestyle it because I don't know the best way to approach this style of play.
If there is anything that you think i can do better from what I'm describing to you, please say so.
Note: I did look at 2 Base Mutalisk from Liquipedia but I'd rather get information from the forums. Liquipedia 2 seems like no one is putting effort into it to populate it with builds at the zerg section.
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i'd get only one pair of lings vs terran with this bo and build the second queen at 21, move the first queen at the edge of your creep in the main and place a tumor at 25 energy, do the second inject on the main hatch with the second queen and move the first one down after she places the tumor.
edit: i wouldnt scout with a drone at all against terran and instead use the drone for stronger eco. you can just scout with your first 2 lings which is good enough as you wont change your build anyway with the information you get from an early drone scout.
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Looks pretty good on paper, may i ask what level of players you are using this on?
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I am at around 1050 points in diamond. So people I play against are usually around there as well.
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Might I recommend adding several corruptors instead of hydralisk tech against phoenixes. The extra range disallows any move-shot micro. Also, please contribute your discussion to the relevant discussion pages on LP2!
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On September 20 2010 06:52 VelRa_G wrote:
Might I recommend adding several corruptors instead of hydralisk tech against phoenixes. The extra range disallows any move-shot micro. Also, please contribute your discussion to the relevant discussion pages on LP2!
Hm...that could possibly work. Using Mutalisk/Corruptors/Zergling may be viable, as corruptors as 2 more range then phoenixes. I'll try this and I'll see if this could work or not.
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I would say the freestyle and adapt after the initial 18 supply is what i do. There just so much crap that can happen early game.
My success lately is vs. terran. I do the normal speedling expand but before i send drones back on gas i get out one more queen and around 8-10 lings. That might be too many for many people's taste, but I like being safe from delayed mass reaper. After the 2nd queen pops to drop creep tumors, i send drones back on gas drone to 22-23, morph lair, then sac my first overlord to see what he's got.
The 2nd fast queen before lair was the big factor in helping me go from megafail vs. T to not bad. You can spread your creep over your 2 bases, block your ramp from hellion runbys, and defend against the early banshee.
After lair i go either roach/baneling first if he's pushing fast, or muta harass if he's expanding or teching. I eventually want roach/baneling/muta for my final army. Against pure mech I want either mass roach w/burrow or mass muta/ling depending oh his composition.
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On September 20 2010 07:10 cerebralz wrote:
I would say the freestyle and adapt after the initial 18 supply is what i do. There just so much crap that can happen early game.
My success lately is vs. terran. I do the normal speedling expand but before i send drones back on gas i get out one more queen and around 8-10 lings. That might be too many for many people's taste, but I like being safe from delayed mass reaper. After the 2nd queen pops to drop creep tumors, i send drones back on gas drone to 22-23, morph lair, then sac my first overlord to see what he's got.
The 2nd fast queen before lair was the big factor in helping me go from megafail vs. T to not bad. You can spread your creep over your 2 bases, block your ramp from hellion runbys, and defend against the early banshee.
After lair i go either roach/baneling first if he's pushing fast, or muta harass if he's expanding or teching. I eventually want roach/baneling/muta for my final army. Against pure mech I want either mass roach w/burrow or mass muta/ling depending oh his composition.
Roach/Baneling/Mutalisks seems like a nice composition versus a terran with many variety of his units.
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............I hate muta because it's so easy for you to win with decent micro when you mass them up. I can pick up marines, turret, even thors easily when I mass them on 2 base. It's easy win mode if you have better economy than your opponent.
........Trying queen/hydra build it's hard as hell to win even if you have better economy because very un mobile units.
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Vs protoss corrupters are a good addition to the army composition. but less for any phoenixes they "might" have, but more for the colossus which are more likely to come out. Right now I think P meta prefers colos/robo in general over any stargate play. Corrupters also allow for a transition into broodlords a little bit faster than if you built those 3 extra mutas instead.
Oh and BTW this is the BO i favor the most, but just like you after opening I'm really fidgety with what I want to do with the rest of the game.
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What is a better initial build?
12 Spawn Pool
12 Extractor
or
14 Extractor
14 Pool
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I basically do what op does for 2 base muta. Slight differences: I find I don't need queen until 16 when I 14gass 14pool and I usually only get 2 lings until I see a zealot/reaper threat. I just try to keep my econ as strong as possible.
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On September 20 2010 08:46 whomybuddy wrote:
............I hate muta because it's so easy for you to win with decent micro when you mass them up. I can pick up marines, turret, even thors easily when I mass them on 2 base. It's easy win mode if you have better economy than your opponent.
........Trying queen/hydra build it's hard as hell to win even if you have better economy because very un mobile units.
Wait so your complaining how easy zerg is? How ironic.
On September 20 2010 08:52 KandLeMaN wrote:
What is a better initial build?
12 Spawn Pool
12 Extractor
or
14 Extractor
14 Pool
I'm not an expert, but I think 14 Extractor 14 Pool is the better choice as it gives you a better economy. 12 Spawning Pool seems a bit early.
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On September 20 2010 08:46 whomybuddy wrote:
............I hate muta because it's so easy for you to win with decent micro when you mass them up. I can pick up marines, turret, even thors easily when I mass them on 2 base. It's easy win mode if you have better economy than your opponent.
........Trying queen/hydra build it's hard as hell to win even if you have better economy because very un mobile units.
Yes, zerg is easy to win with when you're left alone for 20 minutes to mass 50 mutas.
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I would say about 10 mutas+ should be enough to kill turrets ,marines, and thors.
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On September 20 2010 09:38 Zerokaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 08:46 whomybuddy wrote:
............I hate muta because it's so easy for you to win with decent micro when you mass them up. I can pick up marines, turret, even thors easily when I mass them on 2 base. It's easy win mode if you have better economy than your opponent.
........Trying queen/hydra build it's hard as hell to win even if you have better economy because very un mobile units. Yes, zerg is easy to win with when you're left alone for 20 minutes to mass 50 mutas.
If you've been left alone for 20 mins in a 1v1, one (or both) of you isn't playing right
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On September 20 2010 09:32 VirtuallyLost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 08:52 KandLeMaN wrote:
What is a better initial build?
12 Spawn Pool
12 Extractor
or
14 Extractor
14 Pool I'm not an expert, but I think 14 Extractor 14 Pool is the better choice as it gives you a better economy. 12 Spawning Pool seems a bit early.
Okay cuz I've been 12 Pool 12 Extractor 16 Queening but I guess I'll try 14/14/16 next game.
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On September 20 2010 09:47 whomybuddy wrote:
I would say about 10 mutas+ should be enough to kill turrets ,marines, and thors.
Are you sure? When i have 10 mutalisks it's not worth killing turrets because they will damage a mutalisk severly if not dead and will have marines running to the turret from the time it takes you to kill the turret.
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Oh, one thing i left out is: Using this build, when do you get out your 2nd and 3rd gas?
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On September 21 2010 07:06 VirtuallyLost wrote:
Oh, one thing i left out is: Using this build, when do you get out your 2nd and 3rd gas?
I dont think there is a general answer to that, but i personally pretty much never get my second gas before teching to lair. there are too many variations for both vP and vZ that its impossible to answer something like that, you just need to practise alot and get experience.
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On September 21 2010 07:45 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 07:06 VirtuallyLost wrote:
Oh, one thing i left out is: Using this build, when do you get out your 2nd and 3rd gas? I dont think there is a general answer to that, but i personally pretty much never get my second gas before teching to lair. there are too many variations for both vP and vZ that its impossible to answer something like that, you just need to practise alot and get experience.
I see... so this build is style of play is basically using a standard opener and then freestyle the rest of it. This is an extremely strong build, but because of the all the variations, it takes some getting used to.
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On September 21 2010 08:15 VirtuallyLost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 07:45 DarKFoRcE wrote:On September 21 2010 07:06 VirtuallyLost wrote:
Oh, one thing i left out is: Using this build, when do you get out your 2nd and 3rd gas? I dont think there is a general answer to that, but i personally pretty much never get my second gas before teching to lair. there are too many variations for both vP and vZ that its impossible to answer something like that, you just need to practise alot and get experience. I see... so this build is style of play is basically using a standard opener and then freestyle the rest of it. This is an extremely strong build, but because of the all the variations, it takes some getting used to.
Well, the problem is the very large amount of variations that your opponents can play and you are the one who has to react, thats why you have to learn it mostly from just practising alot.
Some general advice against T: if he stays on one base, get one more gas (total 2) while teching to lair, dont get mutas but instead get roach speed and stay on roach ling and some queens to defend against any timingpush. only get mutas once he expands.
if the terran first harrases a bit with whatever and then transitions into an expansion and you are not sure whether to expect another attack coming soon, get 3 gas total while your lair tech is going on. when to get the last gas depends on the situation.
if the terran fastexpands and you expect no early aggression get 4 gas while teching (and alot of drones of course).
against P you will often stay on t1 + one gas to defend against 4 gate, or you will get 4 gas while teching against any kind of earlyish expansion. maybe against stargate openings you want to get 2 or 3 gas while teching and then get some hydras, but i guess there isnt really a general answer to that.
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On September 21 2010 08:22 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 08:15 VirtuallyLost wrote:On September 21 2010 07:45 DarKFoRcE wrote:On September 21 2010 07:06 VirtuallyLost wrote:
Oh, one thing i left out is: Using this build, when do you get out your 2nd and 3rd gas? I dont think there is a general answer to that, but i personally pretty much never get my second gas before teching to lair. there are too many variations for both vP and vZ that its impossible to answer something like that, you just need to practise alot and get experience. I see... so this build is style of play is basically using a standard opener and then freestyle the rest of it. This is an extremely strong build, but because of the all the variations, it takes some getting used to. Well, the problem is the very large amount of variations that your opponents can play and you are the one who has to react, thats why you have to learn it mostly from just practising alot. Some general advice against T: if he stays on one base, get one more gas (total 2) while teching to lair, dont get mutas but instead get roach speed and stay on roach ling and some queens to defend against any timingpush. only get mutas once he expands. if the terran first harrases a bit with whatever and then transitions into an expansion and you are not sure whether to expect another attack coming soon, get 3 gas total while your lair tech is going on. when to get the last gas depends on the situation. if the terran fastexpands and you expect no early aggression get 4 gas while teching (and alot of drones of course). against P you will often stay on t1 + one gas to defend against 4 gate, or you will get 4 gas while teching against any kind of earlyish expansion. maybe against stargate openings you want to get 2 or 3 gas while teching and then get some hydras, but i guess there isnt really a general answer to that.
Thanks for the advice.
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I have taken VelRa_G and tried to use it against my friend in a friendly custom game, using the map iCCup Enigma. As soon i saw the phoenixes, i pumped a few corruptors and continued to pump out mutalisks and zerglings. I think this is one way to deal with phoenixes without teching to hydralisks. Can anyone please look into the replay? I want your opinion on the corruptors!
Here is the replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?01ky62bf0abpkxz
Sorry! Can't upload a replay to starcraft 2 replay upload websites because we played in an iCCup map!.
Note: I do not think i lost because of the strategy, but because i executed it poorly (first time i used it).
(This is 1200 point diamond play btw)
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On September 27 2010 10:03 VirtuallyLost wrote:I have taken VelRa_G and tried to use it against my friend in a friendly custom game, using the map iCCup Enigma. As soon i saw the phoenixes, i pumped a few corruptors and continued to pump out mutalisks and zerglings. I think this is one way to deal with phoenixes without teching to hydralisks. Can anyone please look into the replay? I want your opinion on the corruptors! Here is the replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?01ky62bf0abpkxzSorry! Can't upload a replay to starcraft 2 replay upload websites because we played in an iCCup map!. Note: I do not think i lost because of the strategy, but because i executed it poorly (first time i used it). (This is 1200 point diamond play btw)
Great game, I think the corrupters worked very well and weren't even wasted later on since they discourage collosi and can be morphed to broodlords. edit:
I think it would have been even more effective had you utilised corruption, also makes them less vulnerable to feedback.
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On September 27 2010 11:02 TheFinalWord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 10:03 VirtuallyLost wrote:I have taken VelRa_G and tried to use it against my friend in a friendly custom game, using the map iCCup Enigma. As soon i saw the phoenixes, i pumped a few corruptors and continued to pump out mutalisks and zerglings. I think this is one way to deal with phoenixes without teching to hydralisks. Can anyone please look into the replay? I want your opinion on the corruptors! Here is the replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?01ky62bf0abpkxzSorry! Can't upload a replay to starcraft 2 replay upload websites because we played in an iCCup map!. Note: I do not think i lost because of the strategy, but because i executed it poorly (first time i used it). (This is 1200 point diamond play btw) Great game, I think the corrupters worked very well and weren't even wasted later on since they discourage collosi and can be morphed to broodlords. edit: I think it would have been even more effective had you utilised corruption, also makes them less vulnerable to feedback.
Thanks for the reply! My friend after game was like "Lol, i could've used feedback on them couldn't I. So yeah, i absolutely forgot that feedback could be used on corruptors. I would know now thank you 
If more people could give their opinion on using corruptors in this manner it would be great, because im not entirely sure if I should use them over hydralisks, because I never seen anyone do something like this. Thanks!
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EPT
