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I have been doing a gas before rax straight tech to banshee build, but instead of moving out with my first I wait for the second and cloak to finish before harass. I feel like this is only slightly slower than a rax before before gas first banshee and does a ton more damage. It seems like the whole thing with banshee harass is catching your opponent with his pants down and taking out as much as possible before he can react. After the initial attack it is only a matter of time before your opponent counters your banshees with either turrets, vikings, obs, or overseers. Why not take advantage of this window before that counter comes out and wait for your second banshee. If you have 20/30 seconds to one shot workers it is pretty much gg.
I just got the game last week and I feel like I'm not that good but I have been winning a ton of games. I was like 70%/80% on platinum before I got leveled up to diamond, and it still seems pretty damn effective.
I guess my question is when I watch pro replays no one does this, and they only move out with their first right away. Do you think this is a bad strategy against higher level diamond? most of the games I have lost with it so far are just because of the extreme fast tech and I have gotten my front knocked down. obviously I know that its a risk, but still I'm curious if it makes sense or not at higher levels of play.
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One banshee can take on one queen and live with a few HP. If there is no creep spread between the main and nat the second queen will not make it in time.
To counter banshee zerg should make 3 maybe even 4 queens, spread creep and make overseer.
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Depends which race you're playing. If its terran I would recommend waiting for two because the terran will only have one scan. But I guess its usually based on preference. Two would kill faster and do more damage but one banshee can start right away without delay. Sometimes your oppent might think you are only going to make that one banshee so going in with one has its advantages. Plus one banshee can get there before the get detection or units to counter your banshees.
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What you will find as you move up in diamond is that players have builds which can adapt to any situation and usually banshees are included. In the time it takes to get your second banshee and cloak you have a greater chance of being scouted and have the immediate detection counter thrown in.
With that first banshee what it does very nicely is 1) a bit of harass, 2) force your opponent to skew their composition if it is not anti banshee yet (or just make a bunch of static aa defense) all of which help you eek an economic lead out. I asked my ~1k diamond friend what he does when he see one banshee over his mineral line and his response was 1 cannon in the mineral line and chrono the crap out of that observer and get a 2nd one because 1 will not be enough. Net gain? 150minerals on cannon (+150 if he didnt have forge) + 50/100 on extra 2nd ob early.
There are very few standard builds in which you can win outright with the cloaked banshees (2). The most likely is a slow 4gate that isnt in your face the instant warpgate is finished. Even against 4 gate however i will recommend leaving 1 banshee home just because it will rip apart the 4 gate and 1 cloaked banshee is enough to rip apart his mineral line .
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This will probably sound sad but at the 800-1k diamond I have been having a lot of success waiting for 2 or even 4 banshees!
Granted, this is mostly against races that can not easily scout you (Zerg) or a race that you can sometimes fool (Terran).
vZ: I found that you can fake a build. I like walling off, faking hellions (I'll show my quick factory with reactor when I could easillly hide it in my main), putting marines / depot around the base to prevent an OL scout and use your scans to make sure that Z isn't going fast spire / some other all in build and you can wait prob 2-4!
vT: Harder, because of the weakness of walling off, but if you put your ports in really dumb places to scan while ensuring that marines will pick off any SCV scouts this can also work. I typically leave a tech lab on my factory instead of transferring for faster banshee production.
Cloak is obviously much more important vs T.
These are much more "delayed" banshee attacks, but it can get your opponent thinking all kinds of weird things! Many times vs Z I see them going heavy roach teching to lair by the time my banshees arrive cause I've been annoying with hellions... sometimes I'll build 2-4 (gas is more important with banshees anyway)...
I'm not sure if it's a plus, but very often I will get BM'd doing these hidden tech all ins ... they can be fun though and beat players that are linear thinking. "oh shit 3 hellions! ROACHES" when he should really be thinking, "only 3 hellions at this time i must scout more???"
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In TvT, if you send in one banshee at a time you can get him to use up all his scans without the risk of losing all your banshees at once. By the time you get to your opponents base, he will still be on a single orbital and most likely will only have enough energy for one scan. So if you send in your first banshee he will use his scan on it, and if your banshee dies you send in your next one which now has free reign in his base until he gets a raven or another 50 energy.
To answer your question it can be very effective at upper levels when if done properly (TvT that is). It's not gimmicky or all-in at all. If you don't lose banshees carelessly you can guarantee economic damage, either through forcing turrets, using up his scans, causing him to get ravens, or delaying his expo. Meanwhile you can safely get your own expo up while massing 3+ rax marauders.
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a single banshee, definitely for the scan thing. and also because if they fast expanded you can have your banshees in different locations.
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I like to wait for the second banshee as well, since cloak finishes at the same time, but as I've climbed the ranks in diamond it just doesn't work anymore. They are prepared, and you'll do a little damage but end up behind. In the lower levels, however, go ahead and collect your free wins.
In tvt I love love love going Viking Banshee! You can't just rush cloaked banshees - you still have to fight for air control - but I find that banshees fill the role of tanks except tanks can't shoot back and they're way more mobile. Only problem is usually thors, most don't build them but when they do they kill banshees pretty fast. I'm not sure if you can magic box banshees but that would be neat. Either way, this isn't related to the op since I don't like to rush them. That is one strat in tvt but it's fragile, and many terrans build an early engineering bay to prepare for that, and if you don't open with a Viking you tend to lose air control.
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I usually start picking off workers straight away with the first Banshee, while using your main army to attack the front. Even Diamond players respond poorly to a two sided attack.
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EPT
