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2nd time trying it and it worked flawlessly. I faced a ~1800 zerg and it straight up crushed him.
The phoenix opening into expansion works as good as ever. I get the coucil just before i start the expansion, and the DS as the expansion finishes. The timing is fairly good and i was even able to take out a 3rd hatch as well as about 7 drones or so.
I didnt harass as much as i would have liked, but that will come once i get more familiar with the build.
He probably had a bigger army of roach/hydra/muta than i did (havnt watched the replay yet) however the composition is just perfect. The mutas fell without contest, the overseers were fedback immidietly and the hydra roach was dominated by storms and everything else.
I am very much liking these transitions as it also sets you up to get archons and DTs vs ultras which you showed.
Very great strategy bro! ^^
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Wouldn't the ideal zerg response be to turtle/expand to 200/200 and be sure to have a spore at each expo? Don't really see how you could break him anywhere he has a spore.
Initially starting the expos may be hard for the zerg (idunno, I'm not zerg), but he could use nydus worms to defend wherever you attack without needing to travel the space in between.
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On October 29 2010 13:38 Keilah wrote:
Wouldn't the ideal zerg response be to turtle/expand to 200/200 and be sure to have a spore at each expo? Don't really see how you could break him anywhere he has a spore.
Then just drop/harass away from the spore?
Initially starting the expos may be hard for the zerg (idunno, I'm not zerg), but he could use nydus worms to defend wherever you attack without needing to travel the space in between.
Hardly any zergs use nydus worms even for this kind of thing. It's just a difficult thing to deal with.
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On October 29 2010 07:05 Evark wrote:
In hindsight (read: after the somewhat polite ragequit), I should've had infestors. A fungal growth would've worked wonders.
I wonder about that. I've only given this strat one try (last night) and the Zerg I was facing did eventually tech to infestor but they honestly didn't make a difference. I simply stormed/feedbacked them and split a few DTs to the back to take them out. Of course by that point I was already in the lead so maybe earlier infestor would make the difference.
With this unit combo FG only seems like it helps during a retreat. If you stay and keep attacking after FG, storms are going to tear up your range anyway.
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Anyone could help me on the opening ? I really love this strat, i want to practice it but i'm in trouble with the opening. Indeed : 2 gate aren't as efficient as it was because of the nerf. So, it doesn't put any pressure on the zerg opponent does he ?
What kinds of opening are you using atm, in order to be able to switch correctly into the tier2 and tier3 strategy of this thread ?
Sorry for my english, not my native language 
Btw, i'm in diamond league 1600.
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On October 30 2010 07:17 Omega.763 wrote:Anyone could help me on the opening ? I really love this strat, i want to practice it but i'm in trouble with the opening. Indeed : 2 gate aren't as efficient as it was because of the nerf. So, it doesn't put any pressure on the zerg opponent no ? Whats kinds of opening are you using atm, in order to be able to switch correctly into the tier2 and tier3 strategy of this thread ? Sorry for my english, not my native language Btw, i'm in diamond league 1600.
I used 3 gate pressure into expand followed immediately by stargate.
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I'm very interested to know if anyone can find a way to make this strategy effective after the last patch. I used this a lot before but now it's very difficult to put pressure on a Z with a 2 gate opening...
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On October 30 2010 09:41 Ingruz wrote:
I'm very interested to know if anyone can find a way to make this strategy effective after the last patch. I used this a lot before but now it's very difficult to put pressure on a Z with a 2 gate opening...
You really can't 2 gate anymore. Read my post a few above, it gives a good overview of it. I'll attach a few replays in a minute.
EDIT:
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On October 30 2010 07:19 Shadrak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:17 Omega.763 wrote:Anyone could help me on the opening ? I really love this strat, i want to practice it but i'm in trouble with the opening. Indeed : 2 gate aren't as efficient as it was because of the nerf. So, it doesn't put any pressure on the zerg opponent no ? Whats kinds of opening are you using atm, in order to be able to switch correctly into the tier2 and tier3 strategy of this thread ? Sorry for my english, not my native language Btw, i'm in diamond league 1600. I used 3 gate pressure into expand followed immediately by stargate.
This is what im gonna try to develop into one of my main PvZ strats. 1500 diamond here.
As of right now I do 3 gate pressure into expand then collosi/gate mid game push into third. from there i get blink into either storm/archon or void rays depending on what I scout. I do have trouble around 8-10 min mark with mutas in my base JUST before i start pumping collosi so i have to leave stalkers in my mineral lines.
What i have trouble with is like 12-14 mutas. especially before blink when they start mineral line hopping and my ramp entrance is too much of a choke to effeciently reenter my base. I try cannons and leaving stalkers in the mineral line but critical mass beats them.
Going to try stargate openings to gain the air control. try and force roach hydra and three base gateway late collosi.
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On October 29 2010 12:20 Gemini_19 wrote:
2nd time trying it and it worked flawlessly. I faced a ~1800 zerg and it straight up crushed him.
The phoenix opening into expansion works as good as ever. I get the coucil just before i start the expansion, and the DS as the expansion finishes. The timing is fairly good and i was even able to take out a 3rd hatch as well as about 7 drones or so.
I didnt harass as much as i would have liked, but that will come once i get more familiar with the build.
He probably had a bigger army of roach/hydra/muta than i did (havnt watched the replay yet) however the composition is just perfect. The mutas fell without contest, the overseers were fedback immidietly and the hydra roach was dominated by storms and everything else.
I am very much liking these transitions as it also sets you up to get archons and DTs vs ultras which you showed.
Very great strategy bro! ^^
Here is the replay of this description.
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I was very interested until I watched the replays.
it seems in most games you just DT's at some point and make sure to play people bad enough to not have any detection. The starport units you make usually go to waste. This build doesn't seem to do what you claim in the post, which is counter both muta/ling and roach/hydra, as you suffer heavy losses to both.
that said, I do think a phoenix/templar build is very viable and worth exploring. hopefully something more crisp will come out of this thread, it seems people are pursuing it.
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Bisubuild rediscovered! Kind of interesting that this follows a rediscovery of the 15 nexus forge expand.
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I am pursuing this build as well. I did try is once but due to poor execution with the phoenix never made it any further.
Did have better luck the2nd time. Will try it a bit more.
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I'm definitely going to give this a shot. Im sitting at 1600-1700 right now and lose about 75% of my PvZ matchups due to lack of constant pressure. I feel like my only options are to go either can either phoenix harass into robo push, or blink stalker/4gate harass into a failed attempt to keep up with Z macro.
How does this build hold up to roach/spling or hyd/roach/spling (depending on map) timing pushes before the DTs are on the field? I assume it would be especially hard to get the full effect of this strats strengths on maps like scrap or Basin where they can macro hard regardless of a non-cheese central rush.
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As an update to my post, ive been using this as a standard PvZ opener and its been disgustingly effective. I'm sure Zs will get better at patrolling clumps of overseers around the fight to make it harder to snipe them, or just air transfering asap to force u to play phoenix vs em. But for now at mid-diamond, this is one of the best full game PvZ strats ive come across. Awesome work!
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On November 01 2010 03:47 HuskyHawk wrote:
As an update to my post, ive been using this as a standard PvZ opener and its been disgustingly effective. I'm sure Zs will get better at patrolling clumps of overseers around the fight to make it harder to snipe them, or just air transfering asap to force u to play phoenix vs em. But for now at mid-diamond, this is one of the best full game PvZ strats ive come across. Awesome work!
What about mass roach can you hold that off?
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On November 01 2010 03:59 us.insurgency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 03:47 HuskyHawk wrote:
As an update to my post, ive been using this as a standard PvZ opener and its been disgustingly effective. I'm sure Zs will get better at patrolling clumps of overseers around the fight to make it harder to snipe them, or just air transfering asap to force u to play phoenix vs em. But for now at mid-diamond, this is one of the best full game PvZ strats ive come across. Awesome work! What about mass roach can you hold that off?
I just won an early mass roach push, 14 more or less.
I had 4 phoenixes, 3 sentrys, 3 stalkers and 1 zealot.
Force Fields are awesome, and Graviton Beam took care of the angry roaches ... forced a retreat and expanded to win.
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On October 29 2010 13:38 Keilah wrote:
Wouldn't the ideal zerg response be to turtle/expand to 200/200 and be sure to have a spore at each expo? Don't really see how you could break him anywhere he has a spore.
Initially starting the expos may be hard for the zerg (idunno, I'm not zerg), but he could use nydus worms to defend wherever you attack without needing to travel the space in between.
Spores aren't very mobile. If he gives up map control and turtles you can just do the same and expo/macro up to 200/200. If you can stay close to even economically with a zerg and take the game pretty late without falling behind you can win pretty easily.
On October 30 2010 09:55 Gemini_19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:41 Ingruz wrote:
I'm very interested to know if anyone can find a way to make this strategy effective after the last patch. I used this a lot before but now it's very difficult to put pressure on a Z with a 2 gate opening... You really can't 2 gate anymore. Read my post a few above, it gives a good overview of it. I'll attach a few replays in a minute. EDIT:
agreed, just do the 1-gate phoenix expo build
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WCS![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-161476.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-161477.jpg)
. While I am only Silver and not very good at adapting a build well and effectively and am not great at micro the general timings are helpful and give me an idea of where to improve in my BO. Also just have to say relative to my skill level this strat does very well even when poorly executed against other people with poor execution 
My assumption is that at similar skill levels between players a strategy's inherent strength should still be obvious. 
