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[R] Question about high/low ground.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Enderzvei
Profile Joined August 2010
4 Posts
August 20 2010 20:55 GMT
#1
Hello everyone, I'm experiencing a bit of confusion regarding high/low ground.

I'm a mid silver protoss player, so I'm by no means great or anything. I am still learning a lot via trial and error, and the other day I decided to play around with high ground and low ground. I'm under the impression that if you have units/structures/whatever on the high ground, they can not under any circumstances be shot at by anything on the low ground without a spotter of some sort. Is this true? Sorry for the bolding, but that's my question and here's some anecdotal evidence

I had scouted a T bio push, without any air support (this is silver, remember). I had a few colossi in anticipation of this, with the lance upgrade. I parked my colossi on the cliffs by my choke and moved out my zealots/stalkers/sentries a bit in front of the choke. When the T arrived, I sent most of my zealots forward. Okay everything is great. My colossi are burning the Ts and my zealots are holding them as I watch like a hawk to make sure not a single marine makes it up my ramp- not one does. (I also checked for vikings/banshees/medivacs/whatever- he had no spotter whatsoever he didn't scan or anything and I had 2 observers floating around my base).

I was making another colossus, and it finally completes. I suck, so i end up sending him over the cliff. The marines see this and focus him, kk np just bring the colossus back. However, even though I had pulled my colossus back onto the highground, the marines continued to shoot him until I pulled him very far away (my colossus continued to take damage from a force consisting of 100% marines and marauders, so there was no other hidden unit taking shots or anything.) I am positive that the marines had nothing spotting for them in my base- no marines had entered and no scans were dropped in my base. Hell marines weren't even at the base of my choke. A few marines did, however, run right up to the base of the cliff (and got incinerated but that's not the point.)

Later in a different game, I had stalkers shooting down from cliffs- the marines were never able to shoot back because they didn't have vision.

Do colossi have some strange high ground/low ground behavior? Like because they are so tall marines can "see" them even if you pull them onto the highground? What exactly- if any- are the limitations or exceptions when following the mindset of "Highground+no spotter= can't be hit."

Or is it more a matter of "if your units are at the edge of a cliff, enemies at the base of the cliff can see and shoot up at your units- so pull yours back a little bit."

Thanks everyone, and I apologize for the length of this (and if it's a retarded question.) This is my first RTS so there are a lot of mechanics I don't quite understand yet.

silencesc
Profile Joined July 2010
United States464 Posts
August 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#2
I think it's because collosus are massive, but I've never experienced this before. Maybe he had scanned and you didn't notice? post the replay and we can know for sure.
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Carefoot
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada410 Posts
August 20 2010 21:00 GMT
#3
Collusi have two properties one being a massive unj and the other targetable by air, which means regardless of low or high ground if it's attacking it's targetable (albeit it may be out of range). Just saw this in IdrA vs. Naniwa g2
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Apocalyptic
Profile Joined July 2010
United States131 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 21:02:28
August 20 2010 21:01 GMT
#4
It seems like your understanding of high/low ground mechanics is correct, so I'm not sure whats going on here. If you post the replay we can take a look and see whats going on. Are you sure no scans went down?

Edit: Carefoot may be on to something, if he is right then that would explain what you saw and I would learn something
"Some people are like a slinky, not really good for anything but they still manage to bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs"
Dugrok
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada377 Posts
August 20 2010 21:01 GMT
#5
Collossi count as both an air and a ground unit. If you had a phoenix in the same spot, you'd have the same result.

You're correct about high being unseeable without a spotter though. They changed the high/low ground rules from SC1.
Mnijykmirl
Profile Joined February 2010
United States299 Posts
August 20 2010 21:03 GMT
#6
High ground/low ground vision doesn't apply to air units. And that goes both ways- they can see high ground and when over high ground they can be seen and shot from low ground if they attack.

Colossus are counted as air units in this case. They will give vision of high ground as if they were an air unit, and they can be fired upon by units on the low ground when they attack from the high ground.
Enderzvei
Profile Joined August 2010
4 Posts
August 20 2010 21:03 GMT
#7
Thanks for the replies everyone; I'll look up the replay when I get home from work. I guess it's possible that he scanned and I missed it, I just didn't think it was very likely because I was watching that area going "wtf??". Also, my other colossi on the cliff were not taking damage; just the one that walked down and climbed back up (though I guess that could be because the marines were just focusing that one colossus.)

Thanks again guys.
Azzizle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States9 Posts
August 20 2010 21:11 GMT
#8
he could have also gotten a stealthed ghost in your base, that might explain why he couldn't shoot your stalkers the other time. Also, if there are units on your ramp, they get some cliff vision, they don't need to be all the way up to shoot.
Quote?
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
August 20 2010 21:33 GMT
#9
Its the air unit thing. Think about it... if they made it so you needed vision of the high ground to shoot air their harass would be that much more effective against mineral lines near cliffs (like in the kulas naturals). Air is mobile enough as it is... in sc2 at least its possible to defend your mineral line with units
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