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Yeah, pylons fall surprisingly quickly to focused zealot fire, only if it's 2-3 of them. Hell, they could probably do a suicide blitz on a pylon--lose a zealot in exchange for your pylon and come out ahead. I really need to include this 2gate build into my repertoire, especially for maps with backdoors.
On August 21 2010 07:57 ungood wrote:There is a way to archive a guide! It's called liquipedia. I put up a first draft here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/10/10_Gate_(vs._Protoss)This is my first liquipedia addition, so I hope I haven't offended the gods that be, but I figured I'd follow wikpedia's rule and be bold. Edit: Please feel free to add anything (like fixing formatting or adding the 10 Pylon version of the build).
Nice work with the LP article, but try and replace the sarcasm (fall asleep, roll around on ground, etc.) with something else. I'm not sure what the best counters actually are, so I'm not able to change anything regarding that.
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ok 10/10 gate vs proxy 2gate.
It is a not guide or instructional replay.
It is just a funny replay and i wish to share
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142385.jpg)
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On August 18 2010 12:12 EyMiller245 wrote:
I've do this like all the time vs zerg and never vs toss. I know you say this is very strong against early cyb stalker but I just have a hard time believing that because I rush for stalkers as quickly as possible when I see two gate. I try to delay his rush using probes and my own zealot blocking until I can get two stalkers out because stalkers micro circles around zealots. I dont doubt this works but i think timing has a very important factor in this build.
Edit: Watched the replay vs 2gate and didn't make a strong case for the build (no offense). I still see a timing there against stalkers where you could do this but its slim and you need short rush distances.
I do standard 2-gate dropping my first gate at 12 and I have never EVER lost to someone rushing stalkers unless it's on a really long distance map. Keep in mind that this build is talking about rushing 3 zealots to you with a constant 2 zealot follow up from a 10 gate build. So in all likely hood, you will have 3 zealots at your base a few seconds before your first stalker finishes assuming you built a zeal to hold the wall. By the time your stalker is compete your walling zealot is either out of shield or at 50 health depending on how many zeals could hit him. You stalker will probably kill the weakest zealot before they get through at which point two more zealots have arrived at the bottom of your ramp. You now have one gate building a stalker every 42 seconds minus chrono boost versus two gates building zealots every 33 seconds minus boost with one stalker on the field versus four zealots.
As mentioned above, it takes stalkers ages to kill zealots. Your stalker will do 150 damage to kill a zealot by the time four zealots have done 640 damage to your pylons. It will take longer if they send one zealot after your stalker and it has to kite. You will have another stalker spawn from your gate as two more zealots arrive at your base. At this point the zealots will most likely (under an intelligent player) be able to trap the new stalker against the gateway and kill it. Now you have five zealots in your base with you down a pylon and two more zealots arriving in 33 seconds if your opponenet doesn't use his chrono boost.
And speaking of your opponent, at this point he will build a cy core and an assimilator and eventually start making his own stalkers.
But lets hop back to your base. Where you stalker has killed another zealot and your gateway is no longer powered. At this point you can try to use your stalker to kite 6 zealots, but you're going to lose some probes in the process. Regardless of any decisions that you make at this point, you are not in a good position to combat your opponents forces as you have no wall, and little control over the enemy units in your base.
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This strat probably works best against a Korean 4gate all-in, since they typically won't have anything
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I use a 3 Gate, no gas, 16 probe rush against protoss and win 95% of the time in Diamond, typically from me botching my micro or forgetting a pylon, etc. I've never lost to a 2 gate Rush, in fact I love when protoss try to zealot rush me. There just isn't enough time for you to get enough zealots in my base to overwhelm me and once my third gate is completed it's GG.
I typically chrono 12th probe, go 12 ,13, and 15 gate, and use all other chronos on the zealots. If a couple more zealots run in than I have present I use delaying tactics of hit and run until my next wave of zealots come out and then it's usually even or over.
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On August 23 2010 04:59 JeRLittlefielD wrote:
this build gets owned by chrono'd stalkers and 2 gateway walloff of the choke. if i see someones saving his chronoboosts when i scout and see no gas you can bet your ass im walling off with 2 gateways and gonna own you.
I am SICK of people making comments that you can just use chrono stalkers to beat this build, using gate/core wall-off. I added 2 replays to show how baseless their claim is. I was at a diagonal location at LT was still able to win (Note that both games were not even close, although I told him exactly what I was going to do). 2 gate would be the only "counter" that I would accept.
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On August 25 2010 12:45 AimlessKitty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 04:59 JeRLittlefielD wrote:
this build gets owned by chrono'd stalkers and 2 gateway walloff of the choke. if i see someones saving his chronoboosts when i scout and see no gas you can bet your ass im walling off with 2 gateways and gonna own you. I am SICK of people making comments that you can just use chrono stalkers to beat this build, using gate/core wall-off. I added 2 replays to show how baseless their claim is. I was at a diagonal location at LT was still able to win (Note that both games were not even close, although I told him exactly what I was going to do). 2 gate would be the only "counter" that I would accept.
Actually AimlessKitty is right, I tried it myself by going 2 fast chrono stalkers on a ladder game. I scouted the 2 gate, thought "haha i'm gonna beat his lots so hard with my fast stalkers", and 2 minutes later he had so many zealots there was just nothing I could do. I don't think there is any way to counter 2 gate rush with early stalkers.
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I am not a fan of these kinds of builds however I feel as a Protoss player I am going to have to use this as a standard opening because of this korean 4 warpgate all in. Show some aggression but not be over aggressive, and depending what I see with my zealots, either push and end the game, or transition from there in the case of your opponent getting cannons up or matching your zealot count defensively (whether it coming from micro mistakes or whatever).
Because you are the aggressor you get to make the decision of when the cybercore goes down. I feel you could transition well into a robo build from here as they aren't gas heavy builds, and Warp Prism's would be an excellent follow up on the opponent mineral line if they have spent money on cannons at their front
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walloffs own this build.. If your opponent places his pylon so that he can walloff if needed i think its almost auto lose once he gets out 1 stalker
A good idea you might want to add is to hide 1 gateway ala huck so he thinks you're playing standard then chronoboost it.. i'll let you know if i can find the replay i'm talking about
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On August 26 2010 02:38 Easy772 wrote:
walloffs own this build.. If your opponent places his pylon so that he can walloff if needed i think its almost auto lose once he gets out 1 stalker
A good idea you might want to add is to hide 1 gateway ala huck so he thinks you're playing standard then chronoboost it.. i'll let you know if i can find the replay i'm talking about
Are you serious? Does anyone read the OP at all these days? Actually, you're probably a troll.. must find my happy place...
On August 25 2010 12:45 AimlessKitty wrote:
I am SICK of people making comments that you can just use chrono stalkers to beat this build, using gate/core wall-off. I added 2 replays to show how baseless their claim is. I was at a diagonal location at LT was still able to win (Note that both games were not even close, although I told him exactly what I was going to do). 2 gate would be the only "counter" that I would accept.
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Wall-offs DO NOT WORK against 10 gate ... not even remotely close. I feel aimlesskitty's pain.
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On August 25 2010 02:00 hofodomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 07:57 ungood wrote:There is a way to archive a guide! It's called liquipedia. I put up a first draft here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/10/10_Gate_(vs._Protoss)This is my first liquipedia addition, so I hope I haven't offended the gods that be, but I figured I'd follow wikpedia's rule and be bold. Edit: Please feel free to add anything (like fixing formatting or adding the 10 Pylon version of the build). Nice work with the LP article, but try and replace the sarcasm (fall asleep, roll around on ground, etc.) with something else. I'm not sure what the best counters actually are, so I'm not able to change anything regarding that.
I did some editing today to make it more "professional" and less sarcastic.
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On August 21 2010 16:34 AimlessKitty wrote:
after experimenting 10 pylon is definitely better. Edited the guide as such.
However I think people are putting this build off too much without trying them out.. People don't usually build gateway near ramp nowadays b/c it's harder to defend the ramp with stuff blocking your way. Also, there's a factor in 4 players maps that you'll get scouted at least 2nd time.. (it's 2/3 probability by the way) It's like saying "You can just stop bunker rush by going 9 pool.. bunker rush is a terrible build!" It's all situational. That's why it's called all-in. It's still a good build to do in low levels since it's easy to remember and do. lol I don't know why I have to defend his build so much.
First of all, thanks for the guide! As a Gold SC noob this is very helpful for me, as PvP is currently my biggest weakness. I do have one question:
When you say 10 pylon vs 9 pylon, are you talking about dropping a pylon when you have 9 probes and the 10th probe is training? I've always found I can get my first pylon out just before the 10th probe finishes but maybe I am misunderstanding something about the timing.
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On August 26 2010 05:08 Shadrak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:34 AimlessKitty wrote:
after experimenting 10 pylon is definitely better. Edited the guide as such.
However I think people are putting this build off too much without trying them out.. People don't usually build gateway near ramp nowadays b/c it's harder to defend the ramp with stuff blocking your way. Also, there's a factor in 4 players maps that you'll get scouted at least 2nd time.. (it's 2/3 probability by the way) It's like saying "You can just stop bunker rush by going 9 pool.. bunker rush is a terrible build!" It's all situational. That's why it's called all-in. It's still a good build to do in low levels since it's easy to remember and do. lol I don't know why I have to defend his build so much. First of all, thanks for the guide! As a Gold SC noob this is very helpful for me, as PvP is currently my biggest weakness. I do have one question: When you say 10 pylon vs 9 pylon, are you talking about dropping a pylon when you have 9 probes and the 10th probe is training? I've always found I can get my first pylon out just before the 10th probe finishes but maybe I am misunderstanding something about the timing.
10 pylon means throwing down a pylon when your food is 10/10 - constantly produce probes until you see your food become 10/10. Then, when your mineral's close to 70, send out a probe near the ramp so you'll have 100 mineral to build a pylon. If this sound confusing, go ahead and watch the first replay I uploaded and note the timings.
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Fast stalkers can beat 2-gate; obviously it all depends on how good they are and how good you are. I beat 3-4 people this morning who probably read this last night (with fast stalkers). The two fast stalkers meet the incoming zealots at about the middle of the map, and if you've scouted this 2-gate properly, you've only made 2 or 3 stalkers and began to CB zealots again.
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On August 26 2010 05:38 tehemperorer wrote:
Fast stalkers can beat 2-gate; obviously it all depends on how good they are and how good you are. I beat 3-4 people this morning who probably read this last night (with fast stalkers). The two fast stalkers meet the incoming zealots at about the middle of the map, and if you've scouted this 2-gate properly, you've only made 2 or 3 stalkers and began to CB zealots again.
I would love to play you if you're going to go stalkers against my 10/10. PM me if interested.
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On August 26 2010 05:38 tehemperorer wrote:
Fast stalkers can beat 2-gate; obviously it all depends on how good they are and how good you are. I beat 3-4 people this morning who probably read this last night (with fast stalkers). The two fast stalkers meet the incoming zealots at about the middle of the map, and if you've scouted this 2-gate properly, you've only made 2 or 3 stalkers and began to CB zealots again.
You are clearly confused sir. If you had 2 stalkers in the field. YOU WERE NOT PLAYING AGAINST THIS BUILD. Unless your opponent didn't push at all in which case YOU WERE NOT PLAYING THIS BUILD. The way this build works is even under the condition that you one gate boosting a stalker, your opponent will have three zealots in your base before the first stalker gets out followed by 2 more zealots in 20 seconds. What you probably played against was standard 2 gate zealots which can be outplayed by fast stalkers if you're lucky/scouted early. As the previous poster said, I would love to go 10 gate versus your fast stalkers to show you what I mean.
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On August 26 2010 05:38 tehemperorer wrote:
Fast stalkers can beat 2-gate; obviously it all depends on how good they are and how good you are. I beat 3-4 people this morning who probably read this last night (with fast stalkers). The two fast stalkers meet the incoming zealots at about the middle of the map, and if you've scouted this 2-gate properly, you've only made 2 or 3 stalkers and began to CB zealots again.
Actually when I did the same thing as you, my 2/3 stalks met like 7 zealots (opponent was 10 gating) at the middle of the map and I was like WTF?
I struggled bravely but it was a gg right from the start. So I'd really like to see how your 2 fast stalks beat a whole bunch of raging bloody zealots. (we can duel if you want)
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why should 3-gate not conter this build? i always get 1 gate more as my opponent when he is trying to zealotrush me and i easily outproduce his zealots
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I HATE 2 gate when im Zerg -___-
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EPT
