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To people who say you can just wall off with gate/core, I included 2 replays.
Introduction
I know what you're thinking. "This guy's actually going to write a guide on 2 gate? lol"
Of course, 2 gate is one of the most basic build that any babytoss will use. However, how well can you execute it?
I could not find any guides associated with 10/10 2gate in pvp in liquidpedia nor in the
teamliquid sc2 strategy section, so here's mine, probably extra useful for bronze-silver-gold-platinum players.
First of all, I want to say: 2 gate works. I'm a 500+ diamond protoss player, and 10/10 gate rarely fail me. For those who make "OMG YOU'LL NEVER BE BETTER IF YOU CHEESE" comment, probably while furiously making love to your giant ego, I say fine. Whatever you say, 2 gate is a strong, easy, fun build that's great for both beginners and experts(yes I said it) It WILL help you get better if you learn how to execute this build correctly.
Of course, there's a lot of variation on the 2 gate build - but I'm going to talk about my favorite variation - 10/10 gate super aggression.
The build** (for beginners, 9 pylon means build a pylon when your food is 9)
- constant probe production
- 10 pylon, send 1 probe to scout (do not use any chronoboost on nexus!) **edited according to suggestions.. 10 pylon does seem better than 9pylon.
- 10 stop producing more probes, build 2 gates as mineral allows. After building
gateway, use the same probe to check around main for hidden buildings until the mineral reaches 150. Build gates so that one zealot could completely seal off your ramp.
![[image loading]](http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/673/choke.jpg) Your choke should look something like this.
- after building 2 gate, build only 2 more probes ( you can pretty much queue them).
- When the gate finishes, your food should be 12.
- as soon as gate finishes, build 1 zealot and cronoboost.
- queue another zealot on this gate when you have enough minerals.
- If you did everything correctly, when the first zealot finishes, the cronoboost and 2nd gate will be finished. Build 2nd and 3rd zealot and chronoboost on both gateways.
Usually you'll be tearing up a little at this point because of its beauty, but try to focus.
- build a pylon (your food will be 18/18 at this point) asap, and you can resume probe production.
- Constant zealot production. Micro and win!
Probe scouting:
Your enemy will be scouting you around the time when you are about to build your second gateway.
![[image loading]](http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1787/ohgodj.jpg) o hai. I'm your friendly enemy scout pro.. OH GOD
- I see a gateway warping, and he's taking gas.
+ Show Spoiler +Keep scouting. If he goes for the cyber core, you're almost guaranteed a win. If he follows you with another gate, it's going to be little be tougher. However, he probably spent the chronoboost on nexus, and spent money on gas. Micro well, and you still have a good chance. You'll probably see them matching your gateway in mid-low diamond levels.
- I see him putting down 2 gateways while choroboosting his nexus..
+ Show Spoiler +Uh oh. If you let this continue on longer, he'll have better economy than you. However, you still have the initial army advantage - you'll need to focus hard on micro.try to harrass his probe line, or destroy his vital pylons. If you play your cards well, in most cases you'll be able to be at least even with him. You can choose to build extra gateways with your money and be even more aggressive, or tech up while produing probes.
- I see...nothing.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5574/nadacc.jpg) I see... Nada.If you checked your main after you build your first gate and there were no hidden buildings, it probably means he's going for a proxy gate. Fear not, since 10/10 build is quite strong against proxy 2 gate! Send your scout probe near you main to search for the proxy gateways, and just keep building zealots while chronoboosting them. Important thing is to send your first zealot to enemy main (he'll have only probes to defend it), and take advantage of the choke you made with the gateway. Just keep buying time - your first zealot will do a lot of damage to his economy. If needed, pull some probes to help. Eventually you'll pull ahead, then go ahead and destroy his proxy.
- Uh.. he's now building a forge.
+ Show Spoiler +He will be building a cannon near the ramp wall or near his nexus. He will probably defend your first wave. try to run pass his main choke if possible and harass probes.
Produce zealots on one gate and then take your natural (He just spend 300 minerals on forge/cannon if not more on stationary defense). If it's a map with a back-expo (like delta quadrant) and he's smart, he will probably take the expo since then his cannons won't be wasted - you can tech up quickly instead of taking the natural to take advantage of this.
- I see him putting down three gates.
+ Show Spoiler +He's a fool. Engage asap.
- Hey! he's doing the 10/10 gate build!
+ Show Spoiler +A good way to counter this build is to immediately pull your hands away from the keyboard and the mouse, and place your back on the ground. Proceed to roll around while laughing.
So.. I got my zealots out. what do I do next?
Your key timing is when your 2nd and 3rd zealot reach the enemy base. He'll probably have one or two zealots out at this time. Engage asap - they'll probably run away, terrified by the manliness of your man-lots. Threaten them by attacking the pylon powering the gateways. Touched by your efforts, the cowards will return.
Micro your zealots by pulling back the hurt ones - It's a very good idea to have show units status bars in options as always.
![[image loading]](http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1774/option.jpg) Have this on.
You sacrificed a lot of economy doing this build (he's probably about 5 probe ahead). Sure you could go for the probes, but probes can fight back, teamed up with their zealots. Pylons are great targets in this regard - zealots destroy them pretty quickly. When they are destroyed, they will unpower the gateways if you're lucky. Even if there's a second pylon, you sabotaged their supplies, and you'll be able to out-produce them.
If you're against stalkers, just have one zealot per stalker (they're a lot more efficient than stalkers) and send the rest to the mineral line or lone pylon powering the gates.
Unless he's starcraft god, he'll have a hard time microing both stalker and the probes while producing units. If you see a complete wall-in, attack the pylons first.
If they pull of probes to fight your zealots, just run away from them and buy time - more time his probe spend time off mineral, more advantage for you. (most of the time you can just engagage them anyway.
Build strength/weaknesses:
This build is very strong against proxy 2gate and early cyber core build, which are quite common. Of course, this build is a lot more powerful in maps with short rush distances. Surprisingly, it seems more powerful in 4 player maps since rush distances are usually shorter than 2 player maps ( and higher chance that they won't scout you in time).
This build could potentially be weak against slow 2 gate, since He'll have better economy. However, it all comes down to micro.
Some replays
Now go out there and try this build out!
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It is also good to note rush distances, and chokes. The longer the rush distance, the less effective this will be. Speed and suprise seems to be key to this build. On maps like lost temple, sometimes, you can afford to build your gateways slightly past your natural, allowing you to secure a wall off of your main and natural, giving you the opportunity to expand if the rush fails to win in and of itself.
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You're very right - can't believe I forgot to mention that. I'll edit that right now.
However, since this is an all-in build, if you fail initially, you'll probably need to hold off a counter attack at ramp anyway.
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nice guide. I don't really consider this cheese so much. Proxy is cheese, so is cannon rush, but this is no more cheese than voids (in your base) or DT's. Which are just different units.
Edit: I assume this build works against zergs too. Can you include that too? (I doubt it will get any terrans that wall off.
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If you are going gate/core -> chrono boost first stalker like I do and scout this build, it isnt too hard to win. If you almost blocked your ramp in the same way written in the guide, just start warping in a pylon to finish off the wall.
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ugh. I hate PvP, because I really don't find doing this kind of crap fun at all. But the alternatives are pretty much longer versions of the same crap. makes me want to play a different game instead.
nice guide. will be great to lose to even more n00bs in pvp.
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that second pylon seems super late. delaying the next two zealots by 25 seconds means that if you get an early edge, you cant just shut it out with more zealots, right? maybe i'm missing something about the timing.
edit: oops i'm an idiot. apparently you can build 2 zealots and a pylon at the EXACT SAME TIME!!
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On August 18 2010 11:43 jrkirby wrote:
nice guide. I don't really consider this cheese so much. Proxy is cheese, so is cannon rush, but this is no more cheese than voids (in your base) or DT's. Which are just different units.
Edit: I assume this build works against zergs too. Can you include that too? (I doubt it will get any terrans that wall off.
Of course, this build works against zerg too - but seem to be weak if zerg place a spine crawler or two then tech to roach quickly. However, it will CRUSH a FE zerg.
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This just works, i think ive only lost 2 matches where i have done this, its just awesome especially since everyone wants to go 4gate nowadays
Thumbs up for this.
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On August 18 2010 11:47 Three wrote:
If you are going gate/core -> chrono boost first stalker like I do and scout this build, it isnt too hard to win. If you almost blocked your ramp in the same way written in the guide, just start warping in a pylon to finish off the wall.
I think you're basing this on normal 12/13 gateways - this build not only have early gateways but also chronoboost saved for zealots. In my experience when 1 stalker comes out (even with chrono) I'll have 3 zealots whacking away at your choke before your first stalker gets out.
I usually just attack the pylon and you're forced to build more pylons to keep walling in - and you're supply blocked while this is happening. Stalkers actually take AGES to kill a zealot. Even if you hold it off, I start with significant advantage. I have never lost against a stalker build with this build. Hmm. I should probably add this to the guide..
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On August 18 2010 11:54 gods_basement wrote:
that second pylon seems super late. delaying the next two zealots by 25 seconds means that if you get an early edge, you cant just shut it out with more zealots, right? maybe i'm missing something about the timing.
If you do this build right, you won't get supply blocked at all. Watch the first replay included. That's what I love about this build - everything will click in perfectly if you do it right.
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I've do this like all the time vs zerg and never vs toss. I know you say this is very strong against early cyb stalker but I just have a hard time believing that because I rush for stalkers as quickly as possible when I see two gate. I try to delay his rush using probes and my own zealot blocking until I can get two stalkers out because stalkers micro circles around zealots. I dont doubt this works but i think timing has a very important factor in this build.
Edit: Watched the replay vs 2gate and didn't make a strong case for the build (no offense). I still see a timing there against stalkers where you could do this but its slim and you need short rush distances.
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On August 18 2010 12:05 AimlessKitty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:47 Three wrote:
If you are going gate/core -> chrono boost first stalker like I do and scout this build, it isnt too hard to win. If you almost blocked your ramp in the same way written in the guide, just start warping in a pylon to finish off the wall. I think you're basing this on normal 12/13 gateways - this build not only have early gateways but also chronoboost saved for zealots. In my experience when 1 stalker comes out (even with chrono) I'll have 3 zealots whacking away at your choke before your first stalker gets out. I usually just attack the pylon and you're forced to build more pylons to keep walling in - and you're supply blocked while this is happening. Stalkers actually take AGES to kill a zealot. Even if you hold it off, I start with significant advantage. I have never lost against a stalker build with this build. Hmm. I should probably add this to the guide..
No I'm talking about 10 gate, assuming your wall is build soundly so that tons of zealots cant hit the pylon. I don't mean chrono boost the stalker when zealots get to your front, I mean from the start. Chrono boost the next stalker or sentry as well. And you shouldnt be supply blocked if you don't spend 50 researching warp gates yet.
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On August 18 2010 12:12 EyMiller245 wrote:
I've do this like all the time vs zerg and never vs toss. I know you say this is very strong against early cyb stalker but I just have a hard time believing that because I rush for stalkers as quickly as possible when I see two gate. I try to delay his rush using probes and my own zealot blocking until I can get two stalkers out because stalkers micro circles around zealots. I dont doubt this works but i think timing has a very important factor in this build.
Edit: Watched the replay vs 2gate and didn't make a strong case for the build (no offense). I still see a timing there against stalkers where you could do this but its slim and you need short rush distances.
of course, people try to micro stalkers but there's a limit - i just have one zealot following stalker and rest going after mineral lines and pylons - you'll essentially have 2~3 zealots for every stalkers (remember, I'm chrono boosting gateways too)
If you completely wall yourself in, and somehow I'm not able to hold it, I can always tech to stalkers fairly quickly. Remember, you have to destroy your own buildings to come out. I can always safely tech or expo without much trouble (I usually tech because of void rays)
Maybe it's because of me playing at 500 diamond level? maybe it's less viable in high level.
I never lost against any stalker build with this build(i've been using it since plat) even if I don't win instantly, I start with great advantage.
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On August 18 2010 12:43 AimlessKitty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 12:12 EyMiller245 wrote:
I've do this like all the time vs zerg and never vs toss. I know you say this is very strong against early cyb stalker but I just have a hard time believing that because I rush for stalkers as quickly as possible when I see two gate. I try to delay his rush using probes and my own zealot blocking until I can get two stalkers out because stalkers micro circles around zealots. I dont doubt this works but i think timing has a very important factor in this build.
Edit: Watched the replay vs 2gate and didn't make a strong case for the build (no offense). I still see a timing there against stalkers where you could do this but its slim and you need short rush distances. of course, people try to micro stalkers but there's a limit - i just have one zealot following stalker and rest going after mineral lines and pylons - you'll essentially have 2~3 zealots for every stalkers (remember, I'm chrono boosting gateways too) If you completely wall yourself in, and somehow I'm not able to hold it, I can always tech to stalkers fairly quickly. Remember, you have to destroy your own buildings to come out. I can always safely tech or expo without much trouble ( i usually tech) Maybe it's because of me playing at 500 diamond level? maybe it's less viable in high level. I never lost against any stalker build with this build(i've been using it since plat) even if I don't win instantly, I start with great advantage.
If you watch the replays you win against fast stalker, all of them will probably be researching warp gates when they shouldnt be. And you should not be able to out-tech the player going gate->core with a gas 2 minutes earlier than you, or outexpand them. They can push out whenever they want with blink or just killing a lone pylon.
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10pylon 10gate is more efficient than 9p 10g.
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I probably suck, but I attacked when I had 3 zealots against a zerg, roach warren was up, his roaches killed my zealots, and I just left because I felt that he had the upperhand after my second line of zealots fell.
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Step 10 is harder than is sounds.
Btw, in some circumstances you can go gateway gas forge cyber (pylon? somewhere) gate against this build, and completely wall off a cannon by your nexus. After which going for a 4 warp gate attack with +1 ups and/or charge is viable.
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if you're going to 10gate you should 100% 10pylon every time.
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I haven't tried the build yet but I'm curious about some of its weaknesses
It can be scouted very early so if the other player were to respond by just dropping another gateway and matching you in number from that point on aren't you only setting yourself back? I'm around 750 diamond and most of the people I play know you have to match 2 gate with 2 gate that early on. So I'm worried if I'd just be playing at in inherent disadvantage or would I just be forcing the micro battle?
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