EPT[G] PVP 10/10 gate strategy - Page 2
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
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AimlessKitty
Canada54 Posts
On August 19 2010 01:55 Miraqle wrote: I haven't tried the build yet but I'm curious about some of its weaknesses It can be scouted very early so if the other player were to respond by just dropping another gateway and matching you in number from that point on aren't you only setting yourself back? I'm around 750 diamond and most of the people I play know you have to match 2 gate with 2 gate that early on. So I'm worried if I'd just be playing at in inherent disadvantage or would I just be forcing the micro battle? From my experience, most of the time when you get scouted (could be even later in 4 player maps) they already have thrown down gas and used up all chronoboost (probably 2) so you have a slight advantage there. Even If they followed gate, you had such an early gateway(with saved chrono), you'll have 3 zealots when he has 1~2(key timing). Also, he probably have been using chronoboost on the nexus, meaning that you can match his zealots at main base from your gates. as long as you play right, I wouldn't say you'll be at a definite disadvantage. Like I said, it comes down to micro and quick decisionmaking - but you're on a time constraint here. I've been meaning to have more replays against these counter-2gate, but I kept getting matched with terran/zerg yesterday..  | ||
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AimlessKitty
Canada54 Posts
On August 18 2010 14:07 Chronopolis wrote: Step 10 is harder than is sounds. Btw, in some circumstances you can go gateway gas forge cyber (pylon? somewhere) gate against this build, and completely wall off a cannon by your nexus. After which going for a 4 warp gate attack with +1 ups and/or charge is viable. Cannon can defend it, but you're still spending 150(arguably 300 with forge) minerals. Most of the time you can get even by chronoboosting your nexus and focus on teching(if you were constantly producing probes with spare minerals while pumping 2 gate zealots, it's not that difficult to catch up tech wise. you spent 150+alpha minerals on cannon after all) you might be behind few probes, but in my experience it just becomes a "normal" mid-game. Cannon can very well defend against this 2 gate, but not necessarily a definite counter in experience. (Then again, I didn't fight against many cannons.. i just had about 3 games) I usually have more hard time against 12-13gate with chronoboost. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
About the build: i'm not really a fan of hyperaggressive strats (that aren't the warpgate strat) because against a good simcity player it will put you behind imo. Against good players who happened to have build at the ramp this build just puts you at a disadvantage in my experience. With gateway + cyber or gateway + gateway you can like you describe leave only 1 zealot hole in your entrance. If you have 2 zealots vs 1 zealot in this entrance he can just trade and proceed to fill up his entrance with another gate for example. A stalker behind the closed off entrance and your rush is stopped, closing yourself in in the mirror isn't that bad actually as there are still plenty of ways to be aggresive then. If you are going to doublegate at 10 you need to proxy imo. The proxy takes off CRUCIAL seconds of this rush time AND means your building probe can scout quicker so your scouting probe can block buildings he is trying to close his choke with so you got a open entrance. You are forced to be hyperaggresive anyway with a build that butchers your own economy so why not go all-in with proxy then?? It's not like a scouted proxy is the end of the world in PvP it's not as if he can kill your probe. | ||
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Sha[DoW]
Canada110 Posts
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AimlessKitty
Canada54 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:26 Markwerf wrote: Like others said 10p 10g is strictly better but that doesnt matter that much. About the build: i'm not really a fan of hyperaggressive strats (that aren't the warpgate strat) because against a good simcity player it will put you behind imo. Against good players who happened to have build at the ramp this build just puts you at a disadvantage in my experience. With gateway + cyber or gateway + gateway you can like you describe leave only 1 zealot hole in your entrance. If you have 2 zealots vs 1 zealot in this entrance he can just trade and proceed to fill up his entrance with another gate for example. A stalker behind the closed off entrance and your rush is stopped, closing yourself in in the mirror isn't that bad actually as there are still plenty of ways to be aggresive then. If you are going to doublegate at 10 you need to proxy imo. The proxy takes off CRUCIAL seconds of this rush time AND means your building probe can scout quicker so your scouting probe can block buildings he is trying to close his choke with so you got a open entrance. You are forced to be hyperaggresive anyway with a build that butchers your own economy so why not go all-in with proxy then?? It's not like a scouted proxy is the end of the world in PvP it's not as if he can kill your probe. Definitely can be done as a proxy, but I just personally prefer building at ramp so I can have advantage over proxy gateway. I just have horrible, horrible memories about base trades, which I often discuss with my psychiatrist. as of "2 zealots vs 1 zealot" situation, if you do the build correctly i'll have 3 zealots out, which can make a difference against pylons ( or run-bys after first zealot falls) | ||
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AimlessKitty
Canada54 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:31 Sha[DoW] wrote: 10/10 gate is cheese. The reason it is a cheesy build is that the initial push is an allin. If the push does not do significant damage you will lose an overwhelming majority of your games. Of course, it's a very all-in-ish build. But, good card to have in your sleeve nonetheless (especially 4 player maps) | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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spamhead
9 Posts
 It was PvP and I scouted my opponent getting early gas so I assumed he would be getting an early cybernetics as well - I was correct when I returned with my 6 zealots and reinforcements on the way. He had a stalker, a sentry, and a maybe a couple zealots which I handled fairly easily (except for that damn stalker he kept micro-ing.) Went for the pylons and shut down his unit production quickly then I went after the probes and he gg-ed out. This build feels kinda cheap/cheesy - a win is a win though. Another build to add to my arsenal. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
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Nihilnovi
Sweden696 Posts
9 pylon into 10 gate is a HUGE disadvantage because: Your 10:th probe will be delayed At 10 supply, you will have to wait for minerals to build gate, while having smaller probe count up to this point if you chrono probes 1 time as soon as you have the energy and put down a pylon on 10, the second the plyon pops you will have 150 minerals. I do it like this: Probes up to 10, chrono with first 25 energy. Pylon on 10. 2 gates on 10. Probes to 12. Pylon on 12.(no this does not delay your zealot, you will have exactly 100 minerals when your gateway pops) Spam zealots from both gates while chronoboosting. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On August 18 2010 11:20 AimlessKitty wrote: [*]Constant zealot production. Micro and win! THIS WHOLE THREAD, simply can be quote like the following. | ||
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Spoiz
Denmark22 Posts
So, yes, I am whining this build seems too strong :p too many use it, and it is the most boring setup in all of StarCraft II, IMO. If you find trouble against a build, please tell me, so I can start using it. PvP just rarely gets past zealot spam, which I find incredibly boring. | ||
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Squalish
United States137 Posts
i use to 2gate on 12/13 to counter the super fast 4gate-zlot-pyloninbase-warpin strats. and i beat a lot of (4gatezlotwarping)toss like that. but realistically you only counter them if they're crazy enough to stick to their warpin strat after seeing the 2gate(many are). currently, i start with the plan of 4gate zlot warpin opening(i gave in). it's actually a very flexible build itself. and even at 700 diamond level a lot of people don't know to defend it... though to be fair you can't afford many, or any mistakes against it. oh, and another effective thing against a 2gater is to completely wall the ramp(with gates,core, or forge-not pylon). buys quite a lot of time and is highly underutilized at the moment. | ||
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Squalish
United States137 Posts
On August 19 2010 20:00 Spoiz wrote: What is the counter to this? I HATE PvP for the simple fact that it seems the one with more zealots win. Who cares if there is a stalker on the field, when you can just send 1 zealot after it, while the rest rapes his base/min line? So, yes, I am whining this build seems too strong :p too many use it, and it is the most boring setup in all of StarCraft II, IMO. If you find trouble against a build, please tell me, so I can start using it. PvP just rarely gets past zealot spam, which I find incredibly boring. do you have your ramp walled with 1 spot for a zlot to fit in? after you have that you can make a forge and a cannon or two, and tech to units that destroy mass zlots | ||
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Squalish
United States137 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
oh, and another effective thing against a 2gater is to completely wall the ramp(with gates,core, or forge-not pylon). buys quite a lot of time and is highly underutilized at the moment. exactly; NEVER put your pylon in a position where it can be hit, you have to wall of with gate/core or gate/gate; I do exactly the same right now, when I spot 2 early gates I wall of with my core completely, get my second gate rather early (cut probes when needed) and chrono-boost out stalkers; I don't know if it's theoretically possible theory-craft-wise but my opponents usually despair when they see the complete wall-off without a pylon to start hacking on; rest of the game is easy; I add early twilight-council for blink and two more gates as soon as affordable and own him | ||
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