EPT[D] Neural Parasite versus Thor analysis - Page 4
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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Riouh
Netherlands60 Posts
what you're saying is.. NP results in less fire power for the terran meaning you automaticly have an advantage meaning you will do more damage. But. if you do more damage the terrans firepower will drop quicker than yours that will result in a never ending cycle of dmg reduction of the terran forces and dmg ingrease for the zerg force. sooo.. if i'm not mistaking.. your.. theoretical NP disadvantage/advantage will always result in a win for the zerg in an equaled firepower battle. As the firepower drops for the other team and the fire power ingreases because of the duration *not even counting the extra firepower of the thors* the zerg units will be alive... it will theoreticly always result in a win statistic for the zerg without any micro and positioning from both teams. this is all just theory and im not saying that i'm speaking the truth. it's just.. im thinking thattt.. i might be able to give you a simple math.. thingy.. to prove what i'm saying.. let me think lol.. ehhh. 20=20. and a NP gives -1 to the terran and overall +1 to the zerg. in terms of duration and numbers. that means NP=20+1;20-1. if there is an overall number advantage to 1 side. that side will automaticly win. sooo.. i hope you get what i mean.. as i aint a native speaker.. BUT i think it all comes down to how 20=20 is the fire power. for both sides. NP will transfer 1 point to the zerg. 21-19. and 21 is and will always be higher than 19. without micro/positioning/upgrade/armor extra bonus dmg. in a 1a2a fight thank you for making me able to use my brains[EDIT: Brain. lol. i dont have multible brains.] for once. Kind Regards, Riouh | ||
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kXn
254 Posts
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
Instant Ownage, Thors shoot so slow they take forever to eat through the energy of a pdd. Also, you should always try to NP while burrowed (Hold Shift, Click Move, Click Burrow, Click Target NP before Burrow = Infestor moves to the spot he is told to burrow, burrows, moves towards the NP target and NP's it from underground). | ||
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Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
U actualy need to get in range .... and anything that u want to NP outranges the skill... Did u tried to NP a mech army? just a few tanks and a ton of gas that u invested into infestors are gone in an instant ! I think FG has much more usage ... But against Mass Carriers or stuff like that, it can be awesome ! | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
That being said infestors are good, and NP can be used against Thors indeed, but only if you have means to provide safety for your expensive infestor, which is impossible in some scenarios But you had the right idea, terran units are so good zerg's best chanse is to make them fight each other  | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
 Anyways to my understanding this patch removed the burrow-cast, but the servers are down so I can't check. | ||
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Hammurabio
152 Posts
On August 18 2010 22:48 KingAnusIII wrote: A medivac can heal 15 health per second, for a potential total heal of 225 hps over 15 seconds. There might be a tiny bit of time devoted to acquiring targets to heal however I have not tested. FG does 35 damage over 8 seconds, 70 over 16 seconds, per unit. If you can FG 4-6+ units, it is a better use of the energy. Plus, units in the FG cannot move. FG is perfect against MMM. But of course the best time to Neural Parasite a Medivac is when you are intercepting a drop and are able to snipe it down with some queens/hydra. Not verified, but I read somewhere else that Medivacs with units inside are immune to NP. | ||
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
On September 22 2010 23:16 Hammurabio wrote: FG does 35 damage over 8 seconds, 70 over 16 seconds, per unit. If you can FG 4-6+ units, it is a better use of the energy. Plus, units in the FG cannot move. FG is perfect against MMM. Not verified, but I read somewhere else that Medivacs with units inside are immune to NP. You definitley can't NP a medivac with units inside. I tested this because in SC1 when you mind controlled a transport unit with units inside, the transport as well as everything inside of it was mind controlled permanently. Also, I don't see the need to NP a transport about to drop to shoot it down when you can just FG it outside of your base to shoot it down while it can't move. | ||
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Komodo
Mexico89 Posts
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Competent
United States406 Posts
250mm Cannon was OP when it stunned an ultralisk for 5 seconds and did 500 dmg... An Infestor practically stuns one of your thors for 12 seconds and makes him do 500+ damage to your army and its UP... I was never good at understanding logic over the internet, anyone care to explain. P.S. Great post OP, we need more Zerg like you. | ||
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Exquisito
United States55 Posts
a) high risk of losing infestor/s before neural parasite completes b) relative dmg per unit with parasite vs fungal growth/infested terrans c) relative research time and gas cost of parasite vs fungal growth/infested terrans d) relative cost in APM/micromanagement of the battle (especially if you're fighting on 2 fronts) | ||
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RexFTW
United States172 Posts
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On September 23 2010 01:03 Competent wrote: For the people complaining in this thead... 250mm Cannon was OP when it stunned an ultralisk for 5 seconds and did 500 dmg... An Infestor practically stuns one of your thors for 12 seconds and makes him do 500+ damage to your army and its UP... I was never good at understanding logic over the internet, anyone care to explain. P.S. Great post OP, we need more Zerg like you. The OP is just saying NP is good. It's not like other zergs don't TRY NP, we try it and it doesn't work. I'll take a shot at explaining it to you: 250mm cannon was OP when it stunned an ultra and dealt 500 damage. It also didn't require a research and was available on an already cost-effective unit. NP requires a research on a unit that has no viability outside its spells. If it uses NP, that's energy it doesn't spend on its other uses (fg, it). It also doesn't do any damage, and the infestor has only 80hp until it dies and the NP is broken. So it's not a cool ability that you can use when needed like 250mm cannon - it's a research-able ability that enables NP but at the cost of FG. That's a lot to ask from a research-able ability. Think of it like HSM on Ravens - most Terrans aren't too keen on HSM since the Raven already has useful abilities, HSM requires a research, and it takes up a lot of energy. Consider that Infestors cost about the same as a Raven, can't fly (and we have a crowded ground game), have about HALF the survivability (!!), and HSM is far more powerful than NP. | ||
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Abdiel
52 Posts
On September 23 2010 01:46 RexFTW wrote: There is the use that nobody remembers. NP a dropship full of dudes, then kill the dropship .Why not just fungal growth it? Wouldn't NPing it just be a waste of energy? | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:18 Abdiel wrote: Why not just fungal growth it? Wouldn't NPing it just be a waste of energy? If you FG it he can still unload the units. If you're trying to take it down with 2 queens or something, you're better off NP'ing to keep the units inside. | ||
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ToxNub
Canada805 Posts
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
The OP is just saying NP is good. It's not like other zergs don't TRY NP, we try it and it doesn't work. I'll take a shot at explaining it to you: 250mm cannon was OP when it stunned an ultra and dealt 500 damage. It also didn't require a research and was available on an already cost-effective unit. NP requires a research on a unit that has no viability outside its spells. If it uses NP, that's energy it doesn't spend on its other uses (fg, it). It also doesn't do any damage, and the infestor has only 80hp until it dies and the NP is broken. - fdsdfg Yeah, I agree Fungal Growth is usually going to be better, with the added hugely practical bonus of it being auto-researched. The reason I made the original post was because I thought Neural Parasite had perhaps been dismissed too quickly by the SC2 masses. It does indeed have a use, if a very limited one, and I think primarily that's using it on Thor heavy terran armies. My post was long enough without going into an analysis comparing NP to fungal growth, but I will say a few things about that anyway. Fungal Growth is clearly superior against most unit types, costs less energy, is easier to use effectively, auto-researched, and so on... Just because this is the case does not mean that Neural Parasite does not have its niche. Neural Parasite actually has a few advantages that were not mentioned: +2 range over Fungal Growth. Takes effect instantly, whereas FG is damage over time. Compliments Fungal Growth, because it punishes certain spread out units (i.e. such as a leading Thor), whereas FG punishes tightly packed, smaller, lower health units. potentially better against high health targets such as Colossus, Thors, BCs, Carriers, Broodlords, etc. If someone put a gun to my head and forced me to take a guess on how I should spend my infestor energy it would be something like this. ZvT: Fungal Growth: 75% Infested Terran: 15% Neural Parasite: 10% (versus Thor and Battle Cruisers and maybe the occassional raven and medivac) ZvP: Fungal Growth: 75% Infested Terran: 20% Neural Parasite: 5% (Colossus, Immortals, High Temp to storm other high temp, and if you ever saw them...Carriers, Motherships) ZvZ: Fungal Growth: 90% Infested Terran: 10% Neural Parasite: 0% | ||
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Nu11
Canada167 Posts
if it had range 13 it would be usable, maybe.. but not really. the terran would just stim forward and kill all the infestors and they would be wasted. Basically, if you dont get a perfect FG off on a terran bio army, you lose. game over, no way to win. Agaisnt mech it's also pretty much a lost battle, the way to beat terran in mech is to keep tossing units until he runs out of minerals, is there another way? | ||
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Competent
United States406 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:02 fdsdfg wrote: The OP is just saying NP is good. It's not like other zergs don't TRY NP, we try it and it doesn't work. I'll take a shot at explaining it to you: 250mm cannon was OP when it stunned an ultra and dealt 500 damage. It also didn't require a research and was available on an already cost-effective unit. NP requires a research on a unit that has no viability outside its spells. If it uses NP, that's energy it doesn't spend on its other uses (fg, it). It also doesn't do any damage, and the infestor has only 80hp until it dies and the NP is broken. Infestors have 90 HP btw. Watch Fruitseller play, he shows how cost effective an infestor is. And I liked the OP's post. So it's not a cool ability that you can use when needed like 250mm cannon - it's a research-able ability that enables NP but at the cost of FG. That's a lot to ask from a research-able ability. Think of it like HSM on Ravens - most Terrans aren't too keen on HSM since the Raven already has useful abilities, HSM requires a research, and it takes up a lot of energy. Consider that Infestors cost about the same as a Raven, can't fly (and we have a crowded ground game), have about HALF the survivability (!!), and HSM is far more powerful than NP. | ||
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