EPTThe validity of watching Pro games - Page 2
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bakin1
United States32 Posts
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
I see a lot of players give up wins they could have against me and I genuinely think its because they are improperly estimating that my force could beat theirs. And it also helps your game sense a lot. | ||
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Jadix
United States134 Posts
And I have to say, they've been useless. No way. They've helped you immensely whether you realize it or not. I know from watching Idra play, and hearing day[9]'s analysis that I have improved SIGNIFICANTLY in my zerg play. Basically, you take all the hard work and tests and analysis they do, and you get it for free. Obviously you dont know the game as well as them, but you DEFINITELY learn from it and benefit. Saying its useless to watch pros play is just wrong. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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StreetHeat
United States225 Posts
-Bruce Lee | ||
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FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
Massing games in a thoughtful manner is far superior to mass watching pro replays, theorycrafting, or anything else you might do. Watch pro replays here and there to supplement your play time. If you're spending more than 1/3rd of your time watching pros play, you're doing it wrong. | ||
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Nafink
United States19 Posts
The problem I now face is that I KNOW what I want to do I KNOW how to do it (from watching the replay) and in the game, when it's crunch time, my head says do it, but my hand does not, and I lose miserably. So watching replays has helped me, to an extent, but now i've backed off the replays and im just playing more to fix mechanics. A good mix is what's needed, imo. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
I guess I felt the same thing that the OP went through when phase two came up. Watched a shit ton of old matches and Day(9) religiously then went to apply everything I learned in placement matches... Welcome to gold league, retard. If there's any saving grace to that situation, it's that I get constant practice against decently executed cheeses all the time now. I could keep practicing that or I could just play 2-gate aggression all the way back to upper plat again. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Winks
United States78 Posts
A strategy that I have recently adopted has been to download the actual replays and watch them with only the vision of one player at a time so I can see what they see as they see it and follow their actions and decisions. In this case I constantly consider in my head what I would be doing next in their situation. That said, there is still no substitute for practice. I also watch my own replays and count my mistakes so I can fix them, but even watching your own replays has limited use as nothing but hands on experience can develop the solid, calm, and thorough mentality that all pro's have. For example... in my replays I constantly find moments in the game where I should have been producing SCVs or building SDs to prevent supply block despite having decided on an excellent unit composition and placement... keeping track of that many things in my head doesn't come easily to me yet although it is improving... but seeing that I have that problem in a replay doesn't help me fix it... only practice can acclimate a player to preventing these types of errors. | ||
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Ploppytheman
United States248 Posts
Also of course pro game style is different than noobs, and Asia vs. US etc etc etc. But if you train to fight noobs you will always be a noob. If you train to play like White-Ra then you could one day become White-Ra. This is why I don't do BS cheese b/c it doesn't make me better. I try to play for macro games in order to train myself for more stages of the game and improve my mechanics. Strategy can be taught to a large degree but if you can't implement it then its worthless. Its like all those idiots who watch sports and talk as if they were on the team "we shoulda played more D" blah blah blah, oh man that make me rage... rofl. Good luck every seeing that idiot on the field playing even though he knows the strats. -Knowledge (Strat, Tactics, Timing, Opponent, Trends, etc) -Physical Ability (APM, micro, macro, reaction speed, endurance) -Mental (Keeping cool and not letting rage make you make in game mistakes. Rage is good as long as you don't throw away game b/c of it). -Luck (Minimal but does have impact and can win games) | ||
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GrazerRinge
999 Posts
I rather wonder if someone gets better by watching lots replays. I dont mean that replays are useless, but first you should played a lot and second you should know detailed what you are looking for. Just wondering why you lose wouldnt help to find the difference what really mattered in THAT match because tactics are easy to execute, but recognizing the right timing is not easy as many think. In addition, unit control and expand timing are also important stuff. I personally watch these replays 80% for entertainment, and 20 % for looking for new interesting tactics. One thing i hate most from commentated replays like from husky or HD (no offence to both commentators, they are awesome =) ) is that you hardly get sight from one person. You see everything in replays and get every action, but if you play, it looks different. Therefore VOD should be used occasionally to be entertained and inspired. but not nessarily to learn! | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
If you want to learn from replays, start with your own - and then compare these to what the pros do. It'll work a lot better than just watching every game of TLO or Idra. | ||
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
I really like what day9 says about taking something you like from a pro replay and put it into your own play. Like an opening, or a transition if your opponent is doing something or does a response to something you did. I also think neat micro tricks or tactics like drops can be educational. | ||
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synyster
2 Posts
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
On July 15 2010 02:45 HuK wrote: well i think most players strive to become good not win, at least i hope. its quite ez if you want a good win percentage just to do strategies like (5rax/5warpgtae/mass speedling/roach) and all in. probably a donkey could make it to diamond league playing like this. I hope mos players play to become better and actually learn something strategy wise The current battlenet is filled with one-strat monkeys. That's why we need practice partners. Playing in the league games, is too linear. They cheese, they push hard when they get X unit, or they sit at their base. There is no dance, no reactions. I got unlucky in my placement matches (bugged fluo vga, pinged out, and had to quit another) and im really suffering the game experience of the gold level. Is just sad not being able to focus on the nice things, because on the other side they are trying to end the game with 50 banelings. You don't loose, but they do hinder your learning process. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
The problem sounds to me like you're trying to copy a player entirely - and that is obviously difficult. You mention that if a single variable is off in a game, it could completely change the player's build. This is true, but it's not really relevant. When I watch pro games, I just try to pick up general builds, tips, and the like. I've been improving very rapidly and I have no doubt some of it is from watching pro games. I sort of watch the videos just to expand my knowledge base on the game, I try all the builds and then adapt them to my playstyle and make them my own. You can do the same. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
It seems like the majority of players wholeheartedly believe that watching pro replays will magically transfer to them the powers of the players they are watching. Sorry, but this kind of baseless and exagerated statement is not acceptable. You seem to be underestimating the players' ability to think for themselves and analyse information in a constructive way. Any knowledgeable and capable player knows what to learn from replays, while considering his own experience. | ||
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jazzy3001
21 Posts
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Stagger Lee
United States29 Posts
You said "It seems like the majority of players wholeheartedly believe that watching pro replays will magically transfer to them the powers of the players they are watching. I find this approach a little similar to tying books to your head and hoping to absorb information by diffusion." Bad analogy. It is actually similar to "reading" and "reflecting on" said books. Do you really expect us to believe that you watched many of Day9's casts and that you didn't learn a single new thing?? | ||
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