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Phoenix + dt harass/build? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 14 2010 20:03 GMT
#21
You're going to get your face stomped if the zerg hits a critical mass of hydras, like 20+. Once he hits those numbers, you need either colossi or high templar.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
June 14 2010 20:21 GMT
#22
On June 15 2010 04:39 DuneBug wrote:
uhhh you can actually make a pretty decent push using phoenix, dt's and zealots.
you need to have zealots though. dt's are way too expensive to send them in without help.

You figure on the zerg getting hydralisks to counter phoenix and then come in zeals with DT help while you just have 6 or so phoenix patrolling the air... It's a pretty cool combo. Weak against banelings though. And you'll want the +1 air weapons upgrade for phoenix.

It's gas heavy for sure.. But there are huge rewards... Even if you can't push against the zerg due to spore crawlers or D you can take map control and feel pretty safe doing so. You can force them to make several to many overseers and each overseer is 2 hydralisks.

The OP was making a comparison to the BW sair/DT build, which was NOT a "pushing" build. It was a harassment build that allowed you to pressure and contain the Zerg, while being able to safely expand and build your forces.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-14 21:11:02
June 14 2010 21:03 GMT
#23
It sure is viable, you just need really good multitask.

Don't do it without some form of FE build (either Gate/Forge or double gate into Nexus).

You need to be harassing drones with DTs, constantly moving your Phoenix around all while macroing up/building from some warpgates, getting upgrades, and storm. Expand spotter pylons to all sides of your main to avoid drops/nydus play. Cannon according to your needs and based on his tech.

Also, don't forget, Phoenix can harass too! If there's no hydras or static defense around, throw out a couple Graviton Beams on Drones/Queens and pick em off if there are no DTs near. Also, a +1 upgrade on Phoenix reduces the number of hits needed to kill a drone to two. I'm unsure, but it probably also helps kill Overseers/Overlords faster.

As soon as you think you have time to get your third up, do it.

Remember, off of a FE build you have plenty of gas. It won't be obnoxiously expensive to tech straight to Templar or Collosi. If you fail to do damage to Zerg however, you will be behind.
TradeMark
Profile Joined July 2004
Japan41 Posts
June 14 2010 23:56 GMT
#24
I do wonder if perhaps vs Zerg DTs should be considered in conjuction with feedback/ blink instead. Overseer snipe with feedback/blink, DT to force retreat. 10 gate pressure to forge expo quad gas might be able to pull it off before Zerg can fully establish 3rd. Might not be possible due to gas, but you wouldn't need storm or amulet for feedback. Zealots as a mineral sink would at least give you some ground presence.

Probably should show zeals in early game to prevent too strong of a drone pump. Hm, not sure how timing would work on that.

DT Phoenix just seems too weak on ground. Twilight already leads to both Templar techs instead of quickly trying to split your tech tree. Mineral buildup would allow nexus upon push.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
June 15 2010 00:28 GMT
#25
This is a harass option, but the tech costs too much without a safe transition. You get the long ass DT tech and you get a lot of Phoenixes to hunt Overseers effectively. After your harass, you can really only go to HTs in a cost effective manner which takes longer and more money. Perhaps if both Templar tech were combines, but sadly it isn't.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
June 15 2010 00:52 GMT
#26
I find Speedlot-->HT a more useful addition to Pheonixes than early DTs. A 1 gate 1 stargate opening (with +1 air weapons, for good measure) can pressure a fast-expanding Zerg quite effectively while expanding.

DT tech seems more compelling when Zerg is on more than two bases. (Particularly once you get obs, and can snipe creep tumors! Slow those hydras down.)
My strategy is to fork people.
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
June 15 2010 01:28 GMT
#27
the problem is overseers morph so freaking fast. hydras are kinda a must against protoss so if defended properly no this wont work very often
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
June 15 2010 02:16 GMT
#28
On June 15 2010 10:28 Leeoku wrote:
the problem is overseers morph so freaking fast. hydras are kinda a must against protoss so if defended properly no this wont work very often

I doubt that's the problem if there really is a problem - Sair/DT (one base tech or two base) was viable in BW when all overlords had detection (instead of 150/100 Overseers) and Sairs couldn't lift ground units. The HT followup is slower because DTs cost a lot of extra gas with their 100/250 building and extra 25 gas each, though.

For a one-base build, I would try something like DT expand Stargate --> Phoenix/DT harass & contain --> expand while teching HT/Speedlot or Colossus/Speedlot. You might also try DTs into blink Stalkers; blink costs the same as a Stargate and Stalkers are quite a bit easier on the gas budget for their firepower than Phoenix, while retaining the Phoenix ability to harass + snipe overseers + GTFO if it's too dangerous. I'd probably want to follow that up with forge upgrades and Robo obs Colossus.
My strategy is to fork people.
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
June 15 2010 02:47 GMT
#29
so gas heavy, 2 bases required, by the time Zerg should already be decently prepared
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